Things you want to share with P&B

[GordonD]

6 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

Isn’t religion great?

Mohsen Shekari was hanged on Thursday morning after being found guilty by a Revolutionary Court of "enmity against God", state media reported.

The DUP are really getting above themselves.

[DiegoDiego]

Isn’t religion great?
Mohsen Shekari was hanged on Thursday morning after being found guilty by a Revolutionary Court of "enmity against God", state media reported.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-63900099

Atheism doesn't have such a great record, either.

At least 106,300 Russian clergymen were executed between 1937 and 1941.

[Zen Archer (Raconteur)]

Just now, DiegoDiego said:

Atheism doesn't have such a great record, either.

What label are they on?

[Florentine_Pogen]

9 minutes ago, Zen Archer (Raconteur) said:

What label are they on?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bibletone_Records

[Granny Danger]

58 minutes ago, DiegoDiego said:

Atheism doesn't have such a great record, either.
 

Things aren’t done in the name of atheism.  HTH.

[Melanius Mullarkey]

3 hours ago, Granny Danger said:

Isn’t religion great?

Mohsen Shekari was hanged on Thursday morning after being found guilty by a Revolutionary Court of "enmity against God", state media reported.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-63900099

Well, he was fairly invisible vs Brazil tbf.

[DiegoDiego]

Things aren’t done in the name of atheism.  HTH.

They absolutely were in Albania. HTH.

[Granny Danger]

21 minutes ago, DiegoDiego said:

1 hour ago, Granny Danger said:

Things aren’t done in the name of atheism.  HTH.

They absolutely were in Albania. HTH.

You’ll have to explain that one.

[DiegoDiego]

You’ll have to explain that one.

I'm taking about when the Albanian state were executing thousands of religious leaders, and demolishing thousands of religious buildings, in the name of atheism.

This sort of activity from either side is simply about destroying an organised facet of society which could pose a threat to the incumbent's power. It has very little to do with actual beliefs. This isn't a problem with theism or atheism, it's a problem with humans when they get too much unaccountable power.

[Granny Danger]

2 minutes ago, DiegoDiego said:

I'm taking about when the Albanian state were executing thousands of religious leaders, and demolishing thousands of religious buildings, in the name of atheism.

This sort of activity from either side is simply about destroying an organised facet of society which could pose a threat to the incumbent's power. It has very little to do with actual beliefs. This isn't a problem with theism or atheism, it's a problem with humans when they get too much unaccountable power.

I accept individuals play a role, however there’s a huge problem with theism.  Religion by its very nature is irrational and the antithesis of logic.  When people are encouraged to behave in an irrational way, particularly when they are doing so with the ‘blessing’ of a supreme being then others will suffer.

For every individual killed in the name of atheism there will have been tens of thousands killed in the name of religion.

[DiegoDiego]

I accept individuals play a role, however there’s a huge problem with theism.  Religion by its very nature is irrational and the antithesis of logic.  When people are encouraged to behave in an irrational way, particularly when they are doing so with the ‘blessing’ of a supreme being then others will suffer.
For every individual killed in the name of atheism there will have been tens of thousands killed in the name of religion.

I'm an atheist and just can't wrap my head around the idea of there being a higher power, it makes no sense to me, but similarly my father thinks that I'm the one being illogical by thinking there isn't a higher power. There are a great many documented logical thinkers who believed in a deity. You've a valid point there which I tend to agree with, but I don't think we're at the point of QED yet.

There have also been innumerable good things done in the name of religion, for example the Red Cross, which was founded on the Christian principle of helping those in need, regardless of their beliefs or background.

I come into contact with quite a few Christian groups through my work and almost without exception they're incredibly nice people. My brother is just as atheist as you, but when he had a tragedy in his family the members of his local church went out of their way to support him. Religious organisations are increasingly important today when we have a crisis of elderly people who lack human contact, for many of them their weekly trip to church/temple/mosque/et cetera is the only socialising they manage. I'm not debating for a second that religious groups have done abhorrent things over the years, but I also think you also need to give credit where its due.

As for your last paragraph, well that's not in the least bit surprising seeing as theism has been the dominant ideology for >99% of human history.

[Hedgecutter]

6 minutes ago, DiegoDiego said:

There have also been innumerable good things done in the name of religion, for example the Red Cross, which was founded on the Christian principle of helping those in need, regardless of their beliefs or background.

I come into contact with quite a few Christian groups through my work and almost without exception they're incredibly nice people. My brother is just as atheist as you, but when he had a tragedy in his family the members of his local church went out of their way to support him. 

The big question however is how many of these people do just it to be nice, how many do it just because a book says to, and how many do it simply as a way to get a magic ticket.

A doctor friend of mine, who I know only helps out in Africa to spread the word of her God (absolutely no chance she would be there otherwise) strangely slags off the "fornicators and adulterers" at MSF, who are there to help folk in need without the ulterior motive.  I find it somewhat weird and misguided.

[Granny Danger]

16 minutes ago, DiegoDiego said:

 

I'm an atheist and just can't wrap my head around the idea of there being a higher power, it makes no sense to me, but similarly my father thinks that I'm the one being illogical by thinking there isn't a higher power. There are a great many documented logical thinkers who believed in a deity. You've a valid point there which I tend to agree with, but I don't think we're at the point of QED yet.

There have also been innumerable good things done in the name of religion, for example the Red Cross, which was founded on the Christian principle of helping those in need, regardless of their beliefs or background.

I come into contact with quite a few Christian groups through my work and almost without exception they're incredibly nice people. My brother is just as atheist as you, but when he had a tragedy in his family the members of his local church went out of their way to support him. Religious organisations are increasingly important today when we have a crisis of elderly people who lack human contact, for many of them their weekly trip to church/temple/mosque/et cetera is the only socialising they manage. I'm not debating for a second that religious groups have done abhorrent things over the years, but I also think you also need to give credit where its due.

As for your last paragraph, well that's not in the least bit surprising seeing as theism has been the dominant ideology for >99% of human history.

There are plenty of good people who are religious.  These people would be just as good if it weren’t for their religion.

The reason people are reliant on religious organisations for support is a combination of more people requiring greater help in these troubled times and far less help being available through other routes.  The support offered by religious groups may seem selfless but if it further establishes their foothold in a community it is not so.

There’s quotes in the bible that I totally agree with (just like there are Marxist quotes, often very similar, that I agree with) but literal translations of texts that themselves are very skewed and selective and literal adherence to them, and to selective translations of them, are highly dangerous.

Society’s pandering to religion is dangerous.  One example being religion as a valid justification for homophobia.

 

[DiegoDiego]

There are plenty of good people who are religious.  These people would be just as good if it weren’t for their religion.

That's not provable. Christianity has been the foundation of our society's ethics and morals for over a thousand years. It's impossible to posit a counterfactual with any certainty.

The reason people are reliant on religious organisations for support is a combination of more people requiring greater help in these troubled times and far less help being available through other routes.  The support offered by religious groups may seem selfless but if it further establishes their foothold in a community it is not so.

That's kind of my point. Far less is available through other routes, so it's a good thing that religious groups provide that option for people.

Nothing anyone does is 100% selfless. Again, it's impossible to say with certainty but in my experience most of those people are doing these things in a general desire to help their communities, rather than some nefarious back-door to power.

You could make the same accusation about people who start food banks or any other non-religious charitable work.

There’s quotes in the bible that I totally agree with (just like there are Marxist quotes, often very similar, that I agree with) but literal translations of texts that themselves are very skewed and selective and literal adherence to them, and to selective translations of them, are highly dangerous.

Religion is of course a powerful thing and in the wrong hands can be very dangerous, but so is any ideology. Look at the Khmer Rouge, for example. I don't think that characteristic is specific to religions. I think if you're arguing that religion is bad (fair enough), you should really broaden your scope to include a few other things.

Society’s pandering to religion is dangerous.  One example being religion as a valid justification for homophobia.

Agreed.

Anyway, I've a busy schedule this evening so I'll leave it there. Nice debating with you, Mr Danger.

[Granny Danger]

Maybe this has already been discussed and I’ve completely missed it but this looks really dodgy.

Sky News understands that two separate probes into Unite The Union - one conducted by a senior lawyer and the other by an accountancy firm - found evidence of "eye-watering" overcharging on large contracts.

https://news.sky.com/story/potential-criminality-at-labours-largest-donor-two-independent-reports-find-12764041

 

[Shotgun]

8 hours ago, DiegoDiego said:

There have also been innumerable good things done in the name of religion, for example the Red Cross, which was founded on the Christian principle of helping those in need, regardless of their beliefs or background.

You should probably do some reading on the Red Cross before you hang your hat on such a statement. 

[ICTChris]

11 hours ago, Granny Danger said:

Maybe this has already been discussed and I’ve completely missed it but this looks really dodgy.

Sky News understands that two separate probes into Unite The Union - one conducted by a senior lawyer and the other by an accountancy firm - found evidence of "eye-watering" overcharging on large contracts.

https://news.sky.com/story/potential-criminality-at-labours-largest-donor-two-independent-reports-find-12764041

 

Live footage of the £100m construction site

 

[Mark Connolly]

Walking into work earlier, I was pleased to see that the council had actually gritted a significant number of the pavements, which is really unusual.

Also unusual was seeing a woman brushing the grit outside her tenement door off the pavement and into the gutter, while explaining to her pal that "it's really messy - it gets on everyone's shoes and spreads everywhere"...

[scottsdad]

4 hours ago, Mark Connolly said:

Walking into work earlier, I was pleased to see that the council had actually gritted a significant number of the pavements, which is really unusual.

Also unusual was seeing a woman brushing the grit outside her tenement door off the pavement and into the gutter, while explaining to her pal that "it's really messy - it gets on everyone's shoes and spreads everywhere"...

About 10 years ago I supervised a student researching the damage these salts did to buildings. 

I'll save you the trouble of looking it up. Fucking loads is the answer. 

Caused a car park to collapse in Wolverhampton in 2003.

[tamthebam]

4 hours ago, scottsdad said:

About 10 years ago I supervised a student researching the damage these salts did to buildings. 

I'll save you the trouble of looking it up. Fucking loads is the answer. 

Caused a car park to collapse in Wolverhampton in 2003.

It was apparently an Edinburgh by law that you had to clear snow from the pavement outside your premises/house. The older folk in my street used to do it back in the day 

I still do because I'm a mug. The other fit and healthy neighbours don't bother their arse.

Anyway cat litter is a good alternative to salt for gritting icy pavements