Things you want to share with P&B

[RH33]

1 hour ago, GordonS said:

I think the extent to which people read signs varies on context. There are warnings signs in some car parks at popular hillwalking spots - notably the Glen Nevis road-end car park, from which dafties used to try to climb Ben Nevis - and I've seen people reading them. 

Agreed on schools. They need to teach every kid how to float on their back, and that it's an essential survival skill.

Why does it have to be the school? Parents have a responsability to educate their children. Primary Schools are lucky if they get a four week block of 1hr once week swimming session in P6.

Signage will have little impact especially on a buckie'd up 17 yr old acting the big man in front of his pals.

[Funky Nosejob]

Have worked as a swimming teacher for the past 5 years, as part of my slowdown to retirement.

Every year, just before the summer holidays, we run a water safety week whereby lessons consist of being taught about being safe around water, survival skills and rescue skills all at an appropriate level for age and ability. The children are encouraged to turn up wearing an old t-shirt and shorts on top of their swimming costumes.

The look of alarm on their faces when they first let go of the side whilst wearing wet clothes is astounding. It is an experience that most of my generation will be familiar with from rescuing rubber bricks from the bottom of the school pool whilst wearing pyjamas. We also teach them to “fall” into the water then float on their backs for 30 seconds, shouting for help, before swimming back to the side.

You could argue, and some parents do, that doing these skills in a swimming pool under controlled conditions is pointless. My opinion is that if someone suddenly finds themselves in that situation, any previous similar experiences can only be beneficial.

[Bairnardo]

Have worked as a swimming teacher for the past 5 years, as part of my slowdown to retirement.
Every year, just before the summer holidays, we run a water safety week whereby lessons consist of being taught about being safe around water, survival skills and rescue skills all at an appropriate level for age and ability. The children are encouraged to turn up wearing an old t-shirt and shorts on top of their swimming costumes.
The look of alarm on their faces when they first let go of the side whilst wearing wet clothes is astounding. It is an experience that most of my generation will be familiar with from rescuing rubber bricks from the bottom of the school pool whilst wearing pyjamas. We also teach them to “fall” into the water then float on their backs for 30 seconds, shouting for help, before swimming back to the side.
You could argue, and some parents do, that doing these skills in a swimming pool under controlled conditions is pointless. My opinion is that if someone suddenly finds themselves in that situation, any previous similar experiences can only be beneficial.

As with emergency response training for the basic, non emergency response worker, the goal really is to try and get one wee thing to stick. If someone in a panicked situation like that remembers one wee bit if the training they had, it might just save their lives or that of someone else.

Hard to imagine folk not seeing the value in it.

[vikingTON]

3 hours ago, throbber said:

You can watch the dad getting interviewed and I think he is saying the son was paddling alongside the pier where it looked shallow then he fell in.

Well if 'it looked shallow' then it's clearly Someone Else's Fault that it wasn't.

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Also, like you said, do you really think a sign that said the loch bed had huge drops

How many of these signs should be put up? Every open body of water in the country that gets deeper as you go in? Or perhaps people could simply take their own basic precautions, rather than passing the buck onto someone else for not telling them what to do. 

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 or if there was one saying the water was deceptively cold it would have made a difference? 

It shouldn't be 'deceptively cold', for anyone who has a basic understanding of where Scotland is or its annual climate. They weren't exactly visiting the Costa del Sol. 

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They were stopping off for a quick dip after driving from Skye I doubt they were doing a risk assessment at the time.

Which is their own fault and not that of the authorities. 

[GordonS]

1 hour ago, RH33 said:

Why does it have to be the school? Parents have a responsability to educate their children. Primary Schools are lucky if they get a four week block of 1hr once week swimming session in P6.

The problem with "it's parents' job" is this:

What if the parents never learned to swim?

What if the parents come from a community in which nobody swims?

Fk them kids?

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Signage will have little impact especially on a buckie'd up 17 yr old acting the big man in front of his pals.

If we only did things that worked on bukcie'd up 17 yr olds we'd never do anything. That's not exactly a great way of addressing public policy.

I specifically said, " the signs will do nothing for the daft kids but it might save some more sensible people." 

[GordonS]

1 hour ago, Funky Nosejob said:

Have worked as a swimming teacher for the past 5 years, as part of my slowdown to retirement.

Every year, just before the summer holidays, we run a water safety week whereby lessons consist of being taught about being safe around water, survival skills and rescue skills all at an appropriate level for age and ability. The children are encouraged to turn up wearing an old t-shirt and shorts on top of their swimming costumes.

The look of alarm on their faces when they first let go of the side whilst wearing wet clothes is astounding. It is an experience that most of my generation will be familiar with from rescuing rubber bricks from the bottom of the school pool whilst wearing pyjamas. We also teach them to “fall” into the water then float on their backs for 30 seconds, shouting for help, before swimming back to the side.

You could argue, and some parents do, that doing these skills in a swimming pool under controlled conditions is pointless. My opinion is that if someone suddenly finds themselves in that situation, any previous similar experiences can only be beneficial.

100% this.

I can only think that those arguing against this kind of thing are doing so to maintain their unrelated overarching ideologies. 

[SANTAN]

Once you realise virginton and GordonS are actually the same person it's actually quite funny reading them. 

It's that fine line between love and hate, they orbit around each other. Basically like how people say the Old Firm teams are two cheeks of the same arse. 

[throbber]

4 minutes ago, virginton said:

Well if 'it looked shallow' then it's clearly Someone Else's Fault that it wasn't.

How many of these signs should be put up? Every open body of water in the country that gets deeper as you go in? Or perhaps people could simply take their own basic precautions, rather than passing the buck onto someone else for not telling them what to do. 

It shouldn't be 'deceptively cold', for anyone who has a basic understanding of where Scotland is or its annual climate. They weren't exactly visiting the Costa del Sol. 

Which is their own fault and not that of the authorities. 

That’s the point i’m making though - after the interview with the husband the bbc reported that the family believed there should have been more clearly signage of the dangers and I’m saying that none of it would have helped in the slightest. There’s nothing the authorities can do if people are going to be so complacent they treat open waters like a swimming pool in the good weather but some people always want to point the finger of blame towards them.

[GordonS]

2 hours ago, Richey Edwards said:

Any loss of life is a tragedy, but the fact remains that the recent deaths in open water would have been prevented entirely if the individuals concerned had exercised the appropriate level of caution. Especially when, in the case mentioned in posts above, three out of four of the party could not swim.

Without knowing how it happened that's incredibly harsh. From what I've read a child inadvertently stepped over the edge and the others died trying to save them. They'll have seen lots of other people in the water and it was a completely calm day.

It's easy for us to sit and judge when we already had some awareness of the dangers, but some people have genuinely never come across the information needed to appreciate the level of risk. Were our parents idiots for letting us sit between the front seats of the car, without seat belts on? Because when I was young everyone did that.

[GordonS]

It's quite satisfying to be red dotted on an innocuous post by people you've long had on ignore. Gives a little reassurance that you made a good call.

[vikingTON]

The biggest example of 'unrelated overarching ideologies' entering the fray is citing the ethnic background of people as some Very Important Factor. You do not need to come from a family of swimmers to judge for yourself that fannying around a loch (or reservoir, or any other body of water) is a risky situation. 

If you and your family have no practical experience of handling open water situations then you shouldn't put yourself at risk. It's really that straightforward. 

[Miguel Sanchez]

15 minutes ago, SANTAN said:

Once you realise virginton and GordonS are actually the same person it's actually quite funny reading them. 

It's that fine line between love and hate, they orbit around each other. Basically like how people say the Old Firm teams are two cheeks of the same arse. 

Gordon never used to be this bad.

[Bairnardo]

Gordon never used to be this bad.

He has a lot of open fronts atm. Resources stretched thin.

[ICTChris]

Is there an ethnic dimension to not being able to swim?

[GordonS]

2 minutes ago, ICTChris said:

Is there an ethnic dimension to not being able to swim?

Yes. I've not seen coverage of it in Scotland but it's been well researched in the US and covered lately in the UK.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/apr/04/i-was-the-only-black-kid-in-the-pool-why-swimming-is-so-white

https://voice4change-england.com/swimming-for-all-poolside-or-at-the-beach-ethnic-minorities-face-barriers/ 

[GordonS]

11 minutes ago, Miguel Sanchez said:

Gordon never used to be this bad.

I can't be doing with this playground-level shite.

[Miguel Sanchez]

4 minutes ago, ICTChris said:

Is there an ethnic dimension to not being able to swim?

6.3 billion results when you google "black people swimming" yes

[SANTAN]

3 minutes ago, GordonS said:

I can't be doing with this playground-level shite.

Shave off your island and I'll stop. 

[ICTChris]

I knew that there was an issue with black people in the US having low rates of being able to swim but I didn't know that it was also true in the UK.

[Melanius Mullarkey]

2 hours ago, GordonD said:

Then have a sign that says 'WARNING: DROPOFF' and a picture like this:

To be fair, its a bit stupid going paddling/swimming with a broken leg and a bad case of club foot.

Especially if your mum took thalidomide during pregnancy and you were James Forrest.