Things you want to share with P&B

[btb]

Just back from the GPs it's bad news for the NHS, out of 4 in the surgery I was the least overweight person there with a BMI 28.0 - that Robbie Williams has really let himself go and the music  Radio2, Razorlight and Wham - if I'd known it was going to be that bad I'd have looked after my health.

[Richey Edwards]

I may be speaking as someone who has a phobia of open and deep water, but I always thought it was common knowledge to not go into it. There are so many hidden dangers - how deep it is, where it gets deep, currents, temperature etc.

For all the talk about how local authorities could "do more" - which, by the way, is a vague bullshit criticism usually cast by people looking for someone else to blame - if people didn't fanny about in and around deep water they would still be alive.

 

Edited July 27, 2021 by Richey Edwards

[The Moonster]

1 minute ago, GordonS said:

The family that drowned at Ardlui weren't young, silly people. They just didn't know there was a huge and sudden drop-off.

Signs about cold shock are specifically what I'm talking about. In the right places they will be read.

They weren't young people but they clearly weren't educated on the risks. There are signs at the end of Luss pier that say "DON'T JUMP OFF THE PIER" but nobody reads it and everyone jumps off the pier. Perhaps a sign warning off huge drop offs might help but I'm not convinced. 

[welshbairn]

Need to bring back this kind of thing.

 

[Venti]

Should put up these signs IMO

[effeffsee_the2nd]

37 minutes ago, Richey Edwards said:

I may be speaking as someone who has a phobia of open and deep water, but I always thought it was common knowledge to not go into it. There are so many hidden dangers - how deep it is, where it gets deep, currents, temperature etc.

For all the talk about how local authorities could "do more" - which, by the way, is a vague bullshit criticism usually cast by people looking for someone else to blame - if people didn't fanny about in and around deep water they would still be alive.

 

TBF,  not being able to swim in deep water is a psychological thing, if you can swim in 6 feet of water then you can swim in 6000 feet,  as soon as you can't touch the bottom the result will be the same if you get into difficulty,  it's often the unexpected cold that gets people who can otherwise swim fine

[throbber]

37 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

They weren't young people but they clearly weren't educated on the risks. There are signs at the end of Luss pier that say "DON'T JUMP OFF THE PIER" but nobody reads it and everyone jumps off the pier. Perhaps a sign warning off huge drop offs might help but I'm not convinced. 

You can watch the dad getting interviewed and I think he is saying the son was paddling alongside the pier where it looked shallow then he fell in. He was also saying they were trying to rescue them from the pier with their jumpers, I don’t think they just hurled themselves blindly off the pier. Also, like you said, do you really think a sign that said the loch bed had huge drops or if there was one saying the water was deceptively cold it would have made a difference? They were stopping off for a quick dip after driving from Skye I doubt they were doing a risk assessment at the time.

[Jacksgranda]

44 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

They weren't young people but they clearly weren't educated on the risks. There are signs at the end of Luss pier that say "DON'T JUMP OFF THE PIER" but nobody reads it and everyone jumps off the pier. Perhaps a sign warning off huge drop offs might help but I'm not convinced. 

A lot of folk won't understand what that means.

[The Moonster]

5 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said:

A lot of folk won't understand what that means.

Hence why I think it'll be pointless. 

[Richey Edwards]

8 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said:

A lot of folk won't understand what that means.

They'll probably think it's a huge shipment of contraband. 

Edited July 27, 2021 by Richey Edwards

[throbber]

You need red warning signs for people to take it entirely seriously. Also if you told people there was a flesh eating fish that swam up your japper people would take it more seriously than just a banal threat of certain death.

[GordonS]

 

59 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

They weren't young people but they clearly weren't educated on the risks. There are signs at the end of Luss pier that say "DON'T JUMP OFF THE PIER" but nobody reads it and everyone jumps off the pier. Perhaps a sign warning off huge drop offs might help but I'm not convinced. 

It's not enough for signs just to say "don't". They need to say why not. I think signs about cold water shock and drop-offs would be much more effective.

I think it may be relevant that the family who drowned at Ardlui were ethnically Asian. There's lots of evidence that public education campaigns struggle to reach ethnic minorities (and others like young people). I already knew that swimming at the north end of Loch Lomond is really dangerous and that what's under the water is as steep as what's above it, because I'm part of a society where people talk about that kind of thing. 

I'm not saying public education shouldn't be done as well, just saying there are barriers to overcome. Maybe one good outcome of this particular tragedy will be better information going round a community that may not have previously been aware.

Also, people from ethnic minorities are less likely to be able to swim, which was another factor at Ardlui. This has been raised in the US where research has shown that black children are 3 times more likely to drown than white children. Schools should definitely be involved in tackling that, but it's much harder to get adults involved.

[The Moonster]

6 minutes ago, GordonS said:

 

It's not enough for signs just to say "don't". They need to say why not. I think signs about cold water shock and drop-offs would be much more effective.

I think it may be relevant that the family who drowned at Ardlui were ethnically Asian. There's lots of evidence that public education campaigns struggle to reach ethnic minorities (and others like young people). I already knew that swimming at the north end of Loch Lomond is really dangerous and that what's under the water is as steep as what's above it, because I'm part of a society where people talk about that kind of thing. 

I'm not saying public education shouldn't be done as well, just saying there are barriers to overcome. Maybe one good outcome of this particular tragedy will be better information going round a community that may not have previously been aware.

Also, people from ethnic minorities are less likely to be able to swim, which was another factor at Ardlui. This has been raised in the US where research has shown that black children are 3 times more likely to drown than white children. Schools should definitely be involved in tackling that, but it's much harder to get adults involved.

The problem I see with a sign like that is people are generally less likely to read a sign that has 5 or more lines on it than they are with one that has a simple 3 or 4 words on it.  You can't go into to detail on a sign, it's a straight warning. 

This needs to start in schools, I got swimming lessons in primary school but kids sat out if they didn't want to do it and we were told absolutely f**k all about swimming in the wild. If we start there then it's less likely that minority groups are missed. 

Edited July 27, 2021 by The Moonster

[GordonS]

5 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

The problem I see with a sign like that is people are generally less likely to read a sign that has 5 or more lines on it than they are with one that has a simple 3 or 4 words on it.  You can't go into to detail on a sign, it's a straight warning. 

This needs to start in schools, I got swimming lessons in primary school but kids sat out if they didn't want to do it and we were told absolutely f**k all about swimming in the wild. If we start there then it's less likely that minority groups are missed. 

I think the extent to which people read signs varies on context. There are warnings signs in some car parks at popular hillwalking spots - notably the Glen Nevis road-end car park, from which dafties used to try to climb Ben Nevis - and I've seen people reading them. 

Agreed on schools. They need to teach every kid how to float on their back, and that it's an essential survival skill.

[The Moonster]

3 minutes ago, GordonS said:

I think the extent to which people read signs varies on context. There are warnings signs in some car parks at popular hillwalking spots - notably the Glen Nevis road-end car park, from which dafties used to try to climb Ben Nevis - and I've seen people reading them. 

Agreed on schools. They need to teach every kid how to float on their back, and that it's an essential survival skill.

Hillwalkers in my experience are a bit more safety orientated and responsible than the average person travelling to these spots and swimming/jumping off things, but point taken. 

[GordonS]

3 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

Hillwalkers in my experience are a bit more safety orientated and responsible than the average person travelling to these spots and swimming/jumping off things, but point taken. 

Yeah, the signs will do nothing for the daft kids but it might save some more sensible people. Until this weekend I'd never really understood how people could just die in calm water, yards from safety.

[Richey Edwards]

31 minutes ago, effeffsee_the2nd said:

It's often the unexpected cold that gets people who can otherwise swim fine

Yep. The cold can immobilise otherwise strong swimmers. There are old quarries that people sometimes swim in. That's ill-advised at best, as water in quarries tends to be significantly colder than other outdoor bodies of water.

I can swim reasonably well, and can do a lot of lengths, but that's not going to help me if I get into difficulty while swimming outdoors.

The sea, and other outdoor bodies of water, are not for leisurely paddling and swimming and people should treat them with the caution that they deserve.

Any loss of life is a tragedy, but the fact remains that the recent deaths in open water would have been prevented entirely if the individuals concerned had exercised the appropriate level of caution. Especially when, in the case mentioned in posts above, three out of four of the party could not swim.

[GordonD]

53 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

The problem I see with a sign like that is people are generally less likely to read a sign that has 5 or more lines on it than they are with one that has a simple 3 or 4 words on it.  You can't go into to detail on a sign, it's a straight warning. 

This needs to start in schools, I got swimming lessons in primary school but kids sat out if they didn't want to do it and we were told absolutely f**k all about swimming in the wild. If we start there then it's less likely that minority groups are missed. 

Then have a sign that says 'WARNING: DROPOFF' and a picture like this:

[Bairnardo]

Should put up these signs IMO

My Chtulhu deaper wouldnt be happy with that at all.

[Boghead ranter]

These pics have been getting shared a lot today by people I know who live local to G82/83.

Basically, light colour - you can probably still stand. Dark colour - you're out your depth.

And it's a quick change.