The New Raith Rovers Thread

[P.C]

Murray wont get sacked as much as folks wont it to happen the contract extention he signed will stop that from happening in the summer. The priority next season will be to stay in the league fill up the coffers with the impending arrival of Hearts, Sevco and possibily Dunfermline and other SPL side. Id guess that the board will persist will Murray next season unless we have a terrible start to the season in which case they will probably cut their losses early. Otherwise let him see out his contract hopefully with us having a decent cup run and a mid table finish so whoever we bring in will have a bit of a budget to use

[mad]

We beat Falkirk on that cup run, but right enough, they were below us when we played them.

I'm guessing they're probably won't be any signing or re-signing news for a couple of weeks yet, if they're all away partying it up in maga..

Its amassing how stories get blown out of proportion the team are in Magaluf for 3 days not 2 fukin weeks

[Big Berk]

They should be in Saughton for fraud, not fickin Magaluf

[Rovers1992/1993]

Its amassing how stories get blown out of proportion the team are in Magaluf for 3 days not 2 fukin weeks

I never said that they were in maga for 2 weeks? That's how it gets blown out of proportion, when people like yourself read things wrong..

[Yoss]

Right, so. First up - am I renewing my season ticket?

Absolutely. Quite apart from anything else it's only two summers ago that the club earned my lasting support for their stance on the Rangers / league reorganisation thing. I haven't forgotten that, and will keep buying my season ticket for the foreseeable future even if there may be seasons I'm not going to so many games.

Secondly - Hutton's statement the other week:

It seems from the general reaction that he misjudged the mood and so misjudged the tone. Shit happens. That aside, there wasn't much in it that I could actually find to disagree with.

Thirdly - Grant Murray:

From a fan's perspective it's been a mostly poor and very frustrating season, and there's no hiding from that. From the club's perspective it's valid to note that financially we've had two decent seasons and the manager is due credit for it - if we're able to pay down a chunk of debt between that and next season's expected windfalls then that's a legacy to the club that's not insignificant. But none of that is a reason to consider him the right man for the future if the trend suggests the team is on a downward spiral.

On the other hand, I really dislike the sacking culture in football, and I don't think a bad string of results - even over half a season - represents an a priori reason to sack anyone either. Serious questions do have to be asked, of what Murray thinks has been wrong and what he can do about it, and it's on that basis that any decision should be made. The board are in the best place to ask those questions and make those judgements and, while my inclination is to stick with the current management team, I'll back whatever decision the board make so long as I think it's made for the right reasons. I accept that many of those calling for Murray's head are not just doing so for bad results alone - Paco, whose opinion I always respect, made some valid points about the recent failings over and above the mere fact of the results, and I don't pretend to have answers to all those points. But it's still not easy from the outside to tell whether those failings are systemic or whether he just go the squad wrong this season and can fix things over the summer. I'll wait and see.

All that said, if we get off to a bad start in the first couple of months of next season, his position would become untenable pretty quickly.

[roverthemoon]

Realise I'm in the minority here but I'm prepared to give Murray the benefit of the doubt going into next season.

I'm as fucked off as anyone with the finish to the season in the league and we were dreadful but there were glimmers in that season to suggest that he's not the feckless Mike Basset figure people are making him out to be. The Ramsden's Cup win, the performances against Dundee and Hibs in the Scottish Cup, taking Hearts all the way in the League Cup and how the team played in the first few months of the season. Also some of the players he has signed. Admittedly some of these things were a distant memory as we capitulated to Hamilton or Cowdenbeath in the last few months.

But the main reason I want to give him the benefit of the doubt is that if you look back at the last twenty years our worst periods were when we chopped and changed managers. When we had stability under Nicholl or Connor or McGlynn we made progress, sometimes slow and steady, but progress nonetheless. I don't want to be the sort of club who sacks people when they've just won the club a cup - even if it was just the Ramsdens Cup.

So let's give him the opportunity to make changes to the squad and correct the mistakes from this season. He deserves that. Moods and motivation can change in a squad quite quickly with just slightly different personnel. If we start off the season like we have finished this one then fine, let's get rid of him and bring someone else in, there will still be plenty of time to turn things around.

Having this view doesn't make me a happy clapper or even a particular fan of Murray. I just want Rovers to be a club that treats people with respect and for me he's earned a chance to turn things around - just.

[Rovers_Lad]

Cardle is the only one in the team that has ever really come out and said anything of truth about the situation. He's always come off as quite articulate and intelligent in his interviews and I wouldn't be surprised if he makes a move into management or coaching.

Grant Murray, on the other hand, in his interviews slavers constant cliché phrases and generally gives off the impression that he's clueless. There has clearly been an attitude problem given our cup runs in comparison to our league form and Murray has completely failed to address that. The Rasmdens Cup and the consequent financial burden of terminating his contract are the only factors that are saving him from the sack.

Not being party to his wages or contract but would think we have trousered more than enough money this season to terminate his contract

[Beachbum]

Won't be much change from £200000 for the three of them. I'd rather that sort of money went against the debt and then I'd hope to hell that he's learned from his mistakes.

[Raithie]

From the Rovers site:

"as we prepare for what promises to be a dramatic and exciting Championship next season, the club has decided to progress plans to extend the away support accommodation into part of the currently unused Railway Stand. This project, which is to be fully funded by the club’s own resources, will increase our capacity by over 500 thereby enabling us to welcome larger numbers of visitors. It is the first phase of bringing the Railway Stand back into us."

[Scary Bear]

From the Rovers site:

"as we prepare for what promises to be a dramatic and exciting Championship next season, the club has decided to progress plans to extend the away support accommodation into part of the currently unused Railway Stand. This project, which is to be fully funded by the club’s own resources, will increase our capacity by over 500 thereby enabling us to welcome larger numbers of visitors. It is the first phase of bringing the Railway Stand back into us."

Good news.

[San Starko Rover]

But the main reason I want to give him the benefit of the doubt is that if you look back at the last twenty years our worst periods were when we chopped and changed managers. When we had stability under Nicholl or Connor or McGlynn we made progress, sometimes slow and steady, but progress nonetheless. I don't want to be the sort of club who sacks people when they've just won the club a cup - even if it was just the Ramsdens Cup.

I agree with you about hating chopping and changing managers as it doesn't normally do anything to help a club and if Murray were a proven manager I would probably say give him next season but Murray is a new manager and has no history of being a manager to make me think he is capable of better and things will change this was the gamble.

We have been owned by some pretty average and poor teams this season and are probably lucky to have as many points as we do (Dive against Cowdenbeath, Kirk missing a sitter for Alloa, a McGurn master class at QofS, Getting the penalty against Morton among others) How many games have we played well in? too many of our results have been scrappy even at the start.

I honestly think we would all love Murray to be the man and turn us around but I can't see it from what I have seen and his sound bites and quotes make me question if he even thinks there is anything to turn around. So I ask myself will he last until Christmas and the answer sadly is no, we can't deal with Alloa, Dumbaton and Cowdenbeath so Rangers, Hearts and Kilmarnock/Hibs will destroy us on their day.

So the choice is give him the transfer window and pray we are all wrong and then probably pay him off getting someone new in to turn around his team which could be in Morton's position or Get someone more capable in now and give them the chance to build a team to compete. For me it's the latter I'm afraid. I would rather pay off debts and get players but I can't see us not having to sack Murray before Christmas so I would change now and give someone else the whole season next season will be tough enough we can't have the kind of form we have seen since November or we will be relegated by the New Year.

[Ebanda's Handyman Services]

I agree with you about hating chopping and changing managers as it doesn't normally do anything to help a club and if Murray were a proven manager I would probably say give him next season but Murray is a new manager and has no history of being a manager to make me think he is capable of better and things will change this was the gamble.

We have been owned by some pretty average and poor teams this season and are probably lucky to have as many points as we do (Dive against Cowdenbeath, Kirk missing a sitter for Alloa, a McGurn master class at QofS, Getting the penalty against Morton among others) How many games have we played well in? too many of our results have been scrappy even at the start.

I honestly think we would all love Murray to be the man and turn us around but I can't see it from what I have seen and his sound bites and quotes make me question if he even thinks there is anything to turn around. So I ask myself will he last until Christmas and the answer sadly is no, we can't deal with Alloa, Dumbaton and Cowdenbeath so Rangers, Hearts and Kilmarnock/Hibs will destroy us on their day.

So the choice is give him the transfer window and pray we are all wrong and then probably pay him off getting someone new in to turn around his team which could be in Morton's position or Get someone more capable in now and give them the chance to build a team to compete. For me it's the latter I'm afraid. I would rather pay off debts and get players but I can't see us not having to sack Murray before Christmas so I would change now and give someone else the whole season next season will be tough enough we can't have the kind of form we have seen since November or we will be relegated by the New Year.

At the risk of appearing confrontational, who would you bring in to replace Murray?

[San Starko Rover]

At the risk of appearing confrontational, who would you bring in to replace Murray?

You are quite right to ask the question Andy as is anyone who disagrees with me but I won't even try to claim to have the answer to that one but I think we will have to change and would rather look now giving a a new manager the transfer window than trying to bring someone in when we are bottom. I would love to be wrong but I just don't think Murray has it I'm afraid and it gives me no pleasure to say that.

[Ebanda's Handyman Services]

You are quite right to ask the question Andy as is anyone who disagrees with me but I won't even try to claim to have the answer to that one but I think we will have to change and would rather look now giving a a new manager the transfer window than trying to bring someone in when we are bottom. I would love to be wrong but I just don't think Murray has it I'm afraid and it gives me no pleasure to say that.

I wasn't being facetious asking who you'd replace him with, just interested to see folk's opinion on who else we could go for if Murray is shown the door.

I've no idea either to be honest. Probably an older, respected player who has another year or two left on the pitch.

[Enigma]

From the Rovers site:

"as we prepare for what promises to be a dramatic and exciting Championship next season, the club has decided to progress plans to extend the away support accommodation into part of the currently unused Railway Stand. This project, which is to be fully funded by the club’s own resources, will increase our capacity by over 500 thereby enabling us to welcome larger numbers of visitors. It is the first phase of bringing the Railway Stand back into us."

Madness. Unless this actually proves profitable. I.e by having 500 extra Rangers(2012) fans twice next season the stand can be brought up to standard by the funds that would generate and leave a profit, it's madness.

[San Starko Rover]

I wasn't being facetious asking who you'd replace him with, just interested to see folk's opinion on who else we could go for if Murray is shown the door.

I've no idea either to be honest. Probably an older, respected player who has another year or two left on the pitch.

Didn't take it that way Andy was more the fact I was offering all problems and no solutions (I'm good at that) Can we kidnap Ian Murray from Dumbarton and hope they don't notice?

[Zen Archer (Raconteur)]

Madness. Unless this actually proves profitable. I.e by having 500 extra Rangers(2012) fans twice next season the stand can be brought up to standard by the funds that would generate and leave a profit, it's madness.

If the works pay for themselves, it would justify the outlay, also it addresses the sniping that the club has endured over the years due to inaction.

[Broken Algorithms]

Thirdly - Grant Murray:

From a fan's perspective it's been a mostly poor and very frustrating season, and there's no hiding from that. From the club's perspective it's valid to note that financially we've had two decent seasons and the manager is due credit for it - if we're able to pay down a chunk of debt between that and next season's expected windfalls then that's a legacy to the club that's not insignificant. But none of that is a reason to consider him the right man for the future if the trend suggests the team is on a downward spiral.

On the other hand, I really dislike the sacking culture in football, and I don't think a bad string of results - even over half a season - represents an a priori reason to sack anyone either. Serious questions do have to be asked, of what Murray thinks has been wrong and what he can do about it, and it's on that basis that any decision should be made. The board are in the best place to ask those questions and make those judgements and, while my inclination is to stick with the current management team, I'll back whatever decision the board make so long as I think it's made for the right reasons. I accept that many of those calling for Murray's head are not just doing so for bad results alone - Paco, whose opinion I always respect, made some valid points about the recent failings over and above the mere fact of the results, and I don't pretend to have answers to all those points. But it's still not easy from the outside to tell whether those failings are systemic or whether he just go the squad wrong this season and can fix things over the summer. I'll wait and see.

All that said, if we get off to a bad start in the first couple of months of next season, his position would become untenable pretty quickly.

The thing is, in terms of the financial side of things our improvements have all been as a result of the cups where we've been at the mercy of decent draws. Last year we managed to draw Celtic twice, which helped massively. In terms of the league cup this year, we did well to get Hearts who brought decent numbers for a midweek. The Scottish Cup saw us draw Dundee away (a share of a larger crowd than we usually get), a windfall in the shape of Hibs before TV money from the St Johnstone game. It goes without saying, we've done better than the majority of the teams in the Ramsden's Cup of previous seasons due to who we played.

In terms of the league, we're still sitting on our core support but there are a lot of disgruntled fans who aren't happy about how things are going. I backed Murray for the majority of the season but the game against Cowden finally made me realise that we're not heading in the right direction. We're not going to get anyone new coming to Stark's any time soon until we change the philosophy on the pitch. We've been capable of playing a decent passing game, especially at the start of the season, but as things have gone on we've looked utterly clueless. We're restricted to a 4-4-2 with the same wingers with no idea of how to mix things up.

Three wins from twenty is impossible to justify. I'm firmly of the opinion that we should be looking for someone else and let them build their own squad. A few weeks back somebody mentioned Gary Bollan as a possible replacement. He's with Airdrie for now, but he's managed to turn them around. He'd always managed to get Livi playing to a good standard too. The worst thing we can do is sit back and wait until we're isolated, albeit I appreciate others will believe Murray deserves a bit of a chance after the summer.

[Paco]

The club will have obviously done a cost analysis and decided it's financially worthwhile to do it - whether the 500 extra fans (x 2) are making profit or merely paying for the works and leaving us with an extra 500 seats, it's good news.

At least I'm happy to work on that assumption, anyway...

[San Starko Rover]

If the works pay for themselves, it would justify the outlay, also it addresses the sniping that the club has endured over the years due to inaction.

It's a tough one for the board while it would be nice to have the stand back I can see Huttons point about not needing it until we see the South stand full. I guess as you say the work is paying for it's self or Turnball is sick of hearing about it maybe