The New Raith Rovers Thread

[CALDERON]

No point at this stage speculating on finance.  We don’t really know the status on any takeover situation, and whilst I’m sure the financial outlook isn’t exactly amazing, we did have Scottish Cup tie vs Rangers and have 2 x Fife Derbies next season – hopefully with Hamilton and Cove dropping out of the league.  I have no idea what impact they will have on next years budget, and of course they wont plug the gap so to speak - but there’s no real point making assumptions on that front.

Disregarding contract situations etc, and purely based on merit and value – I think only Mcdonald, Millen, Brown, Stanton and Connolly have a cast iron case to be here next season.  We cannot afford all of Matthews, Vaughan, Gullan, Ross and Easton.  When you look at what we are actually getting, as opposed to the individual talent of the players, its hugely inefficient use of money that the club can’t afford.  Obviously in Vaughan’s case its tempting to make the gamble due to his talent, but he’s been a the club 10 years now and I don’t think we’ve had 1 consistent season of appearances.  I guess Matthews has proven himself at this level, so you would hope that once fit we could keep him so.  Ross and Gullan just aren’t worth the money – they solve problems we don’t have and we don’t see enough of them. Said it a few times, but that is a chronic waste of money from the previous management team.  Easton has shown he is exceptionally talented, and to be fair he doesn’t go into hiding if it isn’t his day.  I’d keep him, to be honest.

Obviously there are different contract situations etc out there so its not as simple as the above.  I’d imagine Connolly will go elsewhere, for example.

At the risk of sounding all Gordon Strachan, we need a bit of physicality and height in there.  It’s no coincidence that we are awful at defending and attacking set pieces, yet have attacking/midfield players who are pretty small in terms of physical stature.  I maintain that you can’t look at our defending without seriously evaluating the centre backs and defenders, but I’m assuming when you bring everyone back the intention is to defend as a team – and that isn’t working.  I don’t think I can stomach another season of attacking midfielders queuing up in the box waiting for the ball to drop to them – or opposition players finding yards of space despite a packed box.  I agree that Lang has had an easy ride.  For every good game he’s had a bad one – and he has actively cost us goals. He and Nolan are alright, but we need a bit more.

Certainly feel pretty flat this morning though.  Playoffs always were a pretty long shot, at best, but you want to hang in there and finish the season strongly.  There’s a world of difference between finishing mid table, but putting up a gallant fight and retaining positivity – vs nights like last night.  Ending the season like that will not result in people parting with £300 notes for season tickets in the current economic climate. 

I was (and still am) pretty satisfied with Murray, but last night saw every single negative trait we have seen come out in force.  The most concerning being the reaction to going behind – I really hoped he’d put that to bed – but the attempt to get back into the game was startling in its naivety.  There will be significant focus (and you could argue pressure) on addressing some of these failings – and that starts now.  Another concern was the lack of intensity shown.  The trait I’ve liked most has been the work rate and effort – it’s been fantastic, even when the quality hasn’t been there – but last night it just wasn’t there.  Its one of my most hated phrases to say the other team “wanted it more”, its overused beyond belief, but last night it was 100% true.  And given that we had finally been given a lifeline to make the end of the season even remotely interesting, that was at best disappointing – and at worst, pathetic.

It’s one game, but we are now at a stage where more and more people are going to be picking and choosing games. Meaningless games in April are awful, and at the end of the day, the club can ill afford drops in attendances.  It’s easy to say “we were never going to get promoted, what does it matter” – but you could easily see 500 drop off each of the next 2 home gates – I don’t know what financial impact that has, but it doesn’t help at all. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[SirJimmyofNic]

Says it all when we cant handle the  expectations of games

https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/sport/football/4278289/ian-murray-wants-to-rid-of-little-bit-of-entitlement-hampering-raith-rovers-season/

[Enigma]

3 hours ago, Scary Bear said:

I went in the Main Stand last night for a change. Noticed Josh Mullin of Ayr United there.

Big Mixu Paatelainen, formerly of Bolton Coroner’s Office, was also there. Possibly to identify the bodies at the shirt sponsors event?

Paul Smith there too. Hope he paid for his ticket.

3 hours ago, Rover the Moon said:

Val clearly did. Brown talks a good game and makes assurances but I’m pretty sure he never actually puts his hand in his pocket.

Brown, from what I’ve heard, played a significant role in bringing Marv back to the club 2007/8ish. Don’t think he’s been involved with anything remotely recently. Seems to me like he just turns up once every six months.

Edited April 5, 2023 by Enigma

[Enigma]

There has to be a question mark over whether we retain Murray now for next season. If you’d asked me a few weeks ago I’d have suggested keeping him without a second though but results like last night do question my faith in him a bit. There’s something about his subs last night, the goals we lost, the same old mistakes etc. that does concern me. If any potential new owner was watching last night I doubt they’d have been impressed at all.

[Paco]

1 hour ago, SirJimmyofNic said:

Says it all when we cant handle the  expectations of games

https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/sport/football/4278289/ian-murray-wants-to-rid-of-little-bit-of-entitlement-hampering-raith-rovers-season/

To be honest that’s complete rubbish from Murray. We’ve won 7 out of 11 league games against the teams below us, and 4 from 19 against the teams above us.

[Michael W]

54 minutes ago, Enigma said:

There has to be a question mark over whether we retain Murray now for next season. If you’d asked me a few weeks ago I’d have suggested keeping him without a second though but results like last night do question my faith in him a bit. There’s something about his subs last night, the goals we lost, the same old mistakes etc. that does concern me. If any potential new owner was watching last night I doubt they’d have been impressed at all.

Probably worth bearing in mind that a run of bad results in dead rubber matches cost Grant Murray his job. Last night was not a dead rubber, but the attitude of the team was consistent with playing one. That cannot be allowed to continue. But all means rotate the team a bit, but the lack of applocation last night was terrible. 

I'm prepared to give Murray the chance to put his own team together rather than one mostly inherited from McGlynn, but he has a lot of issues in that team to address. 

[TxRover]

6 hours ago, CALDERON said:

When you have a record as bad as that for defending set pieces, the argument to retain both centre backs is a tough one.

3 hours ago, CountryBumpkin said:

Its harsh to only pick out the two centre halfs for defending set pieces when as a team we bring everyone back into the box, its a collective shit-show. The first goal is a great example of how players attacking a ball always have the advantage over the defenders, McGowan just got above his man and pinned him down. Not convinced that header should have got to the net though.

This is where I am on the CB’s. The pair are good enough, Nolan has certainly grown into the game, and Lang reminds me much of Bene, with the occasional flops against the regular excellent performances., that they are worth retaining. Our defence of the set piece is a team failure, most of those goals scored have had someone besides the CB’s defending the scorer. There is an overall failure to properly mark and defend in the mosh pit of a free kicking into the goal mouth, and that’s on IM to sort out. Leave a few players out of the mix, make the other side pull players out to mark them, make it easier to track opponents.

[Enigma]

6 minutes ago, Michael W said:

Probably worth bearing in mind that a run of bad results in dead rubber matches cost Grant Murray his job. Last night was not a dead rubber, but the attitude of the team was consistent with playing one. That cannot be allowed to continue. But all means rotate the team a bit, but the lack of applocation last night was terrible. 

I'm prepared to give Murray the chance to put his own team together rather than one mostly inherited from McGlynn, but he has a lot of issues in that team to address. 

This is my worry. He has so far tried to address our biggest issue with Kyle Connell, Big John, Isma and Akio. Neither of these lads are or were up to scratch.

Edited April 5, 2023 by Enigma

[basher brash]

The same argument keeps on cropping up regarding the management knew we were short at the back and up front why didn’t we strengthen more , We had 7 players missing at the start of the season I believe 2 with long term injuries ACL Murray didn’t have the luxury of signing additional players when we had players already on contracts who were out injured , injury prone gullan and Ross who have hardly kicked a ball all season due to injuries , Mcglynn blows the budget on 2 players who didn’t kick a ball for us , Thrown in Murray’s reduced budget what do people expect there wasn’t enough cash, We are all disappointed in recent results however Murray has to be given the chance to fix it 

[Michael W]

2 minutes ago, Enigma said:

This is my worry. He has so far tried to address our biggest issue with Kyle Connell, Big John, Isma and Akio. Neither of these lads are or were up to scratch.

It is also, in fairness, a problem McGlynn couldn't resolve either. Indeed McGlynn's attempts at this have almost certainly constrained Murray in terms of what he can do, with two players having to be paid their contracts to f**k off. 

I think the issues are also a bit more widespread. I don't see us as much as others do, but Nolan looked like an accident waiting to happen in the first half last night and Lang bears some responsibility at both their goals for rashness. This could well be atypical of both, but it struck me that we need strengthening in that area, particularly with an experienced player lacking. Perhaps that might settle Nolan/Lang a bit and might help bring some of those concerning aspects out their game a bit. 

Even in midfield, an area just about everyone would agree we are stacked, there are some issues. The attacking options are all very samey and don't have much variation, so there aren't really opportunities to really change approach there either. 

[raith1974]

7 minutes ago, TxRover said:

This is where I am on the CB’s. The pair are good enough, Nolan has certainly grown into the game, and Lang reminds me much of Bene, with the occasional flops against the regular excellent performances., that they are worth retaining. Our defence of the set piece is a team failure, most of those goals scored have had someone besides the CB’s defending the scorer. There is an overall failure to properly mark and defend in the mosh pit of a free kicking into the goal mouth, and that’s on IM to sort out. Leave a few players out of the mix, make the other side pull players out to mark them, make it easier to track opponents.

No I disagree Steven Anderson showed us what experience brings to a back line. Nolan is okay and Lang is slightly better but neither have the experience to sort the defence out. Out defensive midfielder Brown is probably our best player. I heard that Murray wanted to bring in Darren Mcgregor on loan in January but Hibs wanted most if not all of his wages covered. We need experience in the backline and also a priority is to find a couple of strikers that can hold the ball up and show a threat in front of goal. Isma, Akio and Frederiksen don't shoe this, Vaughan is never a number 9 and Gullan is okay but again is better in a slightly deeper role. 

I would horse Ethan Ross, too similar to what we have, too lightweight and injury prone and probably on decent wages. He has failed to live up to his hype. Spencer is decent but hasn't shown his true form for weeks.

It's also time for the BOD or Sim to tell us where we are with a takeover, fresh investment or the current situation as next season will be extremely tough and this squad needs an injection of better quality players.

[TxRover]

8 minutes ago, raith1974 said:

No I disagree Steven Anderson showed us what experience brings to a back line. Nolan is okay and Lang is slightly better but neither have the experience to sort the defence out. Out defensive midfielder Brown is probably our best player. I heard that Murray wanted to bring in Darren Mcgregor on loan in January but Hibs wanted most if not all of his wages covered. We need experience in the backline and also a priority is to find a couple of strikers that can hold the ball up and show a threat in front of goal. Isma, Akio and Frederiksen don't shoe this, Vaughan is never a number 9 and Gullan is okay but again is better in a slightly deeper role. 

I would horse Ethan Ross, too similar to what we have, too lightweight and injury prone and probably on decent wages. He has failed to live up to his hype. Spencer is decent but hasn't shown his true form for weeks.

It's also time for the BOD or Sim to tell us where we are with a takeover, fresh investment or the current situation as next season will be extremely tough and this squad needs an injection of better quality players.

We’re bang average in goals allowed. Currently 3rd lowest total allowed, but only 2 allowed off 4th most allowed. I agree a more experience CB would have aided us this year, and will next year. While Nolan has gained much of the experience he lacked and is looking stronger and stronger, both he and Lang would still benefit from improved positioning and anticipation that can be taught.

Our realistic goal for the off season is to reframe the offensive threat of this team from a series of lightweight attackers into a proper combined arms threat. We could use at least one hulking, ball holding, defender bulldozing  attacker, preferably two, but that’s a huge ask that this level. Speed is awesome, but a speed team can be defeated with cynical tactics and coordinated tactics…add that threat and suddenly the job of the defence is made much more difficult. I love the tap-tap passing game, and it’s fun to watch (when it works), but it’s not always the answer. If one of our forwards flew into challenges and held/distributed the ball like Brown does at the back, we’d be goals to the good.

Both these goals are hostage to Sim and the process.

[Scary Bear]

4 hours ago, roverthemoon said:

Maybe it’s the disappointment of last night but it’s the stat that we’ve not won three league games in a row since Gary Locke that keeps playing on my mind. Even under McGlynn doing well or when Murray has us playing well or even when we were in League One playing much poorer teams - we couldn’t string three wins together. That shows that we just can’t afford the quality of players to give us any sort of consistency. Hard not to conclude that we’re always going to be a mid-Championship side at best. The odd year we might make the play offs but will likely never find the consistency to get through them. And we’re just as likely to slide into League One. Bit of a depressing thought. 

We definitely won 3 league games in a row the season we won the league. Think it’s Championship league games where we haven’t won 3 in a row since Locke.

Can’t disagree with anything else in your post. The lot of a Rovers fan is not an easy one.

It’s galling seeing the likes of Livi, Accies and St Johnstone having extended periods in the top flight, while we remain also rans. I much preferred when we yo-yo’d between the Prem and First Division.

Edited April 5, 2023 by Scary Bear

[CountryBumpkin]

54 minutes ago, raith1974 said:

No I disagree Steven Anderson showed us what experience brings to a back line. Nolan is okay and Lang is slightly better but neither have the experience to sort the defence out. Out defensive midfielder Brown is probably our best player. I heard that Murray wanted to bring in Darren Mcgregor on loan in January but Hibs wanted most if not all of his wages covered. We need experience in the backline and also a priority is to find a couple of strikers that can hold the ball up and show a threat in front of goal. Isma, Akio and Frederiksen don't shoe this, Vaughan is never a number 9 and Gullan is okay but again is better in a slightly deeper role. 

I would horse Ethan Ross, too similar to what we have, too lightweight and injury prone and probably on decent wages. He has failed to live up to his hype. Spencer is decent but hasn't shown his true form for weeks.

It's also time for the BOD or Sim to tell us where we are with a takeover, fresh investment or the current situation as next season will be extremely tough and this squad needs an injection of better quality players.

I agree regarding Anderson, and looking at the squad we have McDonald, Millen and Brown as wise heads in the side, one of them should be able to suitably marshall the team at corners/free kicks in our box. That has to change and the team have to take responsibility for that on the pitch and during training as its getting to be ridiculous, and again its the whole team because we leave everyone back.

In open play we've been ok, barring individual errors which at this level are bound to happen to anyone.

I also agree about strikers and we've just not had any luck with the ones we've brought in. Isma does nothing that Gullan couldn't do, just slower. Akio is the quick equivalent of Frederiksen. Connell was a young lad learning his game and wasn't the answer this season. 

 

In terms of investment, unless its guaranteed, the club need to live within their means, which is budget for 1300 or so fans per week and use whatever is on top of that to clear our debts/bills. If that means part time or lesser quality/quantity, thats what it has to be. 

[SirJimmyofNic]

Between the end of last season and the start of this one, we were left in limbo land not even knowing if we had a manager, had Airdrie come up it would've been highly doubtful we'd have got Murray and then where would we have been, McGlynn and to a certain extent the board/Sim have cast a long dark shadow over this season, Murray has from now till the end of his contract to get his own team Sim and finances permitting, so I wont judge him till I see who he let's go and what quality he can bring in, we've got far too many lightweight titches in the team for my liking.

Ross was after a move to bigger things but injury and not being as good as he thought he was, has put paid to that after McGlynn rescued him and paid Aberdeen god knows what in development fees, same with Gullan, on top of the players we paid off

[Zen Archer (Raconteur)]

What a difference 3 days make.

[Scary Bear]

I’m reasonably happy with Murray so far. Mental ‘stick on every forward and cross your fingers’ tactics aside, we’ve been decent to watch and despite not having any great forwards we’ve still managed to score goals.

However, since we came back up to the Championship it’s gone 3rd, 5th…

if we finish below 5th - say 7th - the downward trend continues. Put some Boardroom upheaval into the mix and we all know where we’ll end up sooner or later. Sinking back to Scottish League One *shudder* then taking three years to get out again.

Edited April 5, 2023 by Scary Bear

[TxRover]

I think the argument that Vaughan, Gullan, Connolly and Ross are essentially the same player is noT really incorrect. Vaughan is probably the most skilled of the four, with Connolly class behind, but the resources used to maintain those four with us, plus Akio and McBride, are squandered.

In the cold hard light of day, we have some decisions to make. Vaughan is 27 and coming off yet another knee operation. Gullan is 23 and coming off a hip/groin operation. Connolly is 27 and healthy. Ross is 21 and coming off a hip/groin operation. Akio is a loan, and not worth considering, McBride is 22 and still hasn’t found consistent playing time.

Ignoring anything but cold, hard facts (and contract status), you’d ideally keep Gullan and Connolly and shift the rest. Gullan is younger and healthier than Vaughan, Connolly has much the same skills as Vaughan and is the same age and healthier. If you are keeping three, Ross gets a provisional nod over McBride, but Vaughan would be even better if not likely more costly and worrying anytime he gets tackled.

Unfortunately, IM will not be able to rebuild much more than the defence with a number of midfield and attacking contracts locked in. Hopefully he can use the turnover that occurs to diversify the types of players we have at those positions.

[Raithie]

10 minutes ago, TxRover said:

Ignoring anything but cold, hard facts...Gullan is younger and healthier than Vaughan

The cold hard facts are you're slavering shite. As it stands Gullan isn't 'healthier' than Vaughan - he's out fooking injured whereas Vaughan is playing and scoring goals. 

[TxRover]

4 minutes ago, Raithie said:

The cold hard facts are you're slavering shite. As it stands Gullan isn't 'healthier' than Vaughan - he's out fooking injured whereas Vaughan is playing and scoring goals. 

 Vaughan has had four knee ops, Gullan has had a op to correct an issue that’s surfaced this year. As it stands, yes, Vaughan is healthy right now…but Gullan is the better bet. It sucks, I don’t like the fact, because LV is pretty much a talisman for the club, but can we afford that?