basher brash Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 This might be a stupid comment but if Rovers are sold for 3 million we will be totally debt free and have a new owner of the football club and stadium with all money going to John Sim as the debt is owed to him however stadium repairs of 500k will be hanging over the head of the new owner / football club basically . The puzzling thing for me is why the sudden change of heart with John Sim we were only planning on building a new community hub then later on new plans were submitted to double the size of the hub and come the end of October the plans are withdrawn what’s going on ! John Sim is privy to our current plight for many a year so why a change of heart within 1 and a half months 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumswall Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 2 minutes ago, basher brash said: This might be a stupid comment but if Rovers are sold for 3 million we will be totally debt free and have a new owner of the football club and stadium with all money going to John Sim as the debt is owed to him however stadium repairs of 500k will be hanging over the head of the new owner / football club basically . The puzzling thing for me is why the sudden change of heart with John Sim we were only planning on building a new community hub then later on new plans were submitted to double the size of the hub and come the end of October the plans are withdrawn what’s going on ! John Sim is privy to our current plight for many a year so why a change of heart within 1 and a half months It would depend on the terms of the sale, as to wether we would be debt free. As far as I know the debt owed isn't exclusively to sim so we wouldn't be debt free if he bags 3 mill for everything. The deal would need to include all debt being paid off for us to become debt free, which I'm not so sure sim is overly bothered about at this stage. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rrfsee Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 5 minutes ago, basher brash said: This might be a stupid comment but if Rovers are sold for 3 million we will be totally debt free and have a new owner of the football club and stadium with all money going to John Sim as the debt is owed to him however stadium repairs of 500k will be hanging over the head of the new owner / football club basically . The puzzling thing for me is why the sudden change of heart with John Sim we were only planning on building a new community hub then later on new plans were submitted to double the size of the hub and come the end of October the plans are withdrawn what’s going on ! John Sim is privy to our current plight for many a year so why a change of heart within 1 and a half months That is the 3 million dollar question. hard to think he is turning his back on the club he has supported since he was a wee boy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basher brash Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 10 minutes ago, grumswall said: It would depend on the terms of the sale, as to wether we would be debt free. As far as I know the debt owed isn't exclusively to sim so we wouldn't be debt free if he bags 3 mill for everything. The deal would need to include all debt being paid off for us to become debt free, which I'm not so sure sim is overly bothered about at this stage. Do you know the other major creditor ? Has John sim invested 3 million of his own money ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumswall Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 3 minutes ago, basher brash said: Do you know the other major creditor ? Has John sim invested 3 million of his own money ? I don't know the answer to either mate. I know there has been loans to the club from more than just him though. Id imagine this information should be available on company House or something though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Archer (Raconteur) Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 20 minutes ago, basher brash said: Do you know the other major creditor ? Has John sim invested 3 million of his own money ? There were loans from Mario and the estate of Turnbull Hutton, there were others to ex-directors. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael W Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, basher brash said: Do you know the other major creditor ? Has John sim invested 3 million of his own money ? The details in the accounts are not exact, but we have: £92k in Director loans £878k owed to "related party" (it is almost certainly John Sim or SPP) £50k bank loan (possibly a covid bounceback?) £202k to "other creditors" There are other things too, but these items stand out as being the more challenging ones for us. Edited December 22, 2022 by Michael W 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brashy's Boots Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 2 hours ago, Michael W said: The details in the accounts are not exact, but we have: £92k in Director loans £878k owed to "related party" (it is almost certainly John Sim or SPP) £50k bank loan (possibly a covid bounceback?) £202k to "other creditors" There are other things too, but these items stand out as being the more challenging ones for us. Eek! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TxRover Posted December 23, 2022 Share Posted December 23, 2022 5 hours ago, Michael W said: The details in the accounts are not exact, but we have: £92k in Director loans £878k owed to "related party" (it is almost certainly John Sim or SPP) £50k bank loan (possibly a covid bounceback?) £202k to "other creditors" There are other things too, but these items stand out as being the more challenging ones for us. 2 hours ago, Brashy's Boots said: Eek! No, eek is the following: Raith Rovers Football Club Ltd. was only able to file as a going concern because the ultimate controlling party (one, Sim, John) committed to payments, as necessary, for the next 12 months from 31/5/2021. RRFC Ltd. had net liabilities of £1,405,145, as of 31/5/2021. Starks Park Properties Ltd. had net assets on 31/1/2022 of £42,306. The problem is the net assets 31/1/21 were £211,720…31/1/20 were £309,611…31/1/19 were £319,711…31/1/18 were £360,821… There are a couple of other companies, but the total reality is pretty harsh…the Rovers are likely a good £1.5+ in debt…SPP is, at most, even…the Park itself needs at least £500k in repairs before we even consider necessary updates/upgrades. So that’s a cool £2M, before you consider buying the clubs assets and contracts…£3M certainly doesn’t seem to include SPP Ltd, in my opinion. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumswall Posted December 23, 2022 Share Posted December 23, 2022 18 minutes ago, TxRover said: No, eek is the following: Raith Rovers Football Club Ltd. was only able to file as a going concern because the ultimate controlling party (one, Sim, John) committed to payments, as necessary, for the next 12 months from 31/5/2021. RRFC Ltd. had net liabilities of £1,405,145, as of 31/5/2021. Starks Park Properties Ltd. had net assets on 31/1/2022 of £42,306. The problem is the net assets 31/1/21 were £211,720…31/1/20 were £309,611…31/1/19 were £319,711…31/1/18 were £360,821… There are a couple of other companies, but the total reality is pretty harsh…the Rovers are likely a good £1.5+ in debt…SPP is, at most, even…the Park itself needs at least £500k in repairs before we even consider necessary updates/upgrades. So that’s a cool £2M, before you consider buying the clubs assets and contracts…£3M certainly doesn’t seem to include SPP Ltd, in my opinion. Or show any value from a prospective buyers pov I'd imagine. Maybe sim or macdonald could speak publicly again and further ensure our club is fucked... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double Jack D Posted December 23, 2022 Share Posted December 23, 2022 The first sign of smoke from a club about to implode is the "expanded top league" chat. The rest of the season may be more interesting off the pitch than on it... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scary Bear Posted December 23, 2022 Share Posted December 23, 2022 2 minutes ago, Double Jack D said: The first sign of smoke from a club about to implode is the "expanded top league" chat. The rest of the season may be more interesting off the pitch than on it... How come every other club manages to go into admin and do some 2p in the pound thing and get rid of their debts, but we still have this situation? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ro Sham Bo Posted December 23, 2022 Share Posted December 23, 2022 4 minutes ago, Scary Bear said: How come every other club manages to go into admin and do some 2p in the pound thing and get rid of their debts, but we still have this situation? Maybe we should just go all in and liquidate. We can come back as The Raith Rovers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scary Bear Posted December 23, 2022 Share Posted December 23, 2022 1 minute ago, Ro Sham Bo said: Maybe we should just go all in and liquidate. We can come back as The Raith Rovers. Works for me. Sevco 2: This time it’s personal. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ro Sham Bo Posted December 23, 2022 Share Posted December 23, 2022 10 hours ago, TxRover said: No, eek is the following: Raith Rovers Football Club Ltd. was only able to file as a going concern because the ultimate controlling party (one, Sim, John) committed to payments, as necessary, for the next 12 months from 31/5/2021. RRFC Ltd. had net liabilities of £1,405,145, as of 31/5/2021. Starks Park Properties Ltd. had net assets on 31/1/2022 of £42,306. The problem is the net assets 31/1/21 were £211,720…31/1/20 were £309,611…31/1/19 were £319,711…31/1/18 were £360,821… There are a couple of other companies, but the total reality is pretty harsh…the Rovers are likely a good £1.5+ in debt…SPP is, at most, even…the Park itself needs at least £500k in repairs before we even consider necessary updates/upgrades. So that’s a cool £2M, before you consider buying the clubs assets and contracts…£3M certainly doesn’t seem to include SPP Ltd, in my opinion. Any buyer won't be paying for the debt though, they'll be taking it on. So it could be that the £3 million price mentioned includes taking on £2 million of debt and then another £1 million for whatever assets (tangible or otherwise) the club may have. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double Jack D Posted December 23, 2022 Share Posted December 23, 2022 40 minutes ago, Scary Bear said: How come every other club manages to go into admin and do some 2p in the pound thing and get rid of their debts, but we still have this situation? Other clubs are smart, they owe money to folk that don't run them . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double Jack D Posted December 23, 2022 Share Posted December 23, 2022 36 minutes ago, Ro Sham Bo said: Maybe we should just go all in and liquidate. We can come back as The Raith Rovers. Why even the "The" ? Just liquidate the company that operates the club and get a new one, the club stays as Raith Rovers. Airdrieonions and Rangers have done it previously so there is precedent. We may need to start again in (or be demoted to) League 2 but we can carry on with our name and full history intact. Definitely more palatable than trying to service/ pay off the debt. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scary Bear Posted December 23, 2022 Share Posted December 23, 2022 Just now, Double Jack D said: Why even the "The" ? Just liquidate the company that operates the club and get a new one, the club stays as Raith Rovers. Airdrieonions and Rangers have done it previously so there is precedent. We may need to start again in (or be demoted to) League 2 but we can carry on with our name and full history intact. Definitely more palatable than trying to service/ pay off the debt. Airdrie had to kill Clydebank. Only footballing royalty like Rangers get immediately voted back into the league structure. We might have to go EoSFL. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellaboz Posted December 23, 2022 Share Posted December 23, 2022 53 minutes ago, Scary Bear said: How come every other club manages to go into admin and do some 2p in the pound thing and get rid of their debts, but we still have this situation? I think we kept the instruction manual somewhere 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enigma Posted December 23, 2022 Share Posted December 23, 2022 12 minutes ago, Scary Bear said: Airdrie had to kill Clydebank. Only footballing royalty like Rangers get immediately voted back into the league structure. We might have to go EoSFL. Honestly think it would be quite good fun starting again in the EOSFL and climbing our way back up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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