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The New Raith Rovers Thread


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He needs to change the shape of the team. There is no getting away from the fact we lack some quality in terms of our forwards, but at the same time we aren't creating much in the box for the forwards to attack. Most our goals end up being absolute belters because we don't do anything in the box and moves break down at the edge so guys like Connolly need to be able to lash it in from there.

I'd love it if we were scoring tap ins because it would indicate we were getting players into the box quickly and moving well enough to overwhelm defences.

It's the same trap McGlynn fell in with the 4-2-3-1 shape. It helps you control possession but it relies so heavily on the quality of the guy leading the line that we don't really have. I'd happily have a bit less control and less possession if it meant we were more dangerous in and around the box.

So it's a question of how you get Vaughan and probably Gullan at this point into a two up top. Whether that's trying again with his 4-1-3-2 now that he has a more settled defence or maybe a 4-4-2 diamond? 

That's not to say it's our only issue, you are needing more from guys like Ross and Easton. The former has a great burst of acceleration and strength but rarely has played anywhere near his capabilities. Easton has the talent but tends to fade out of games especially when played out wide.

 

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19 minutes ago, renton said:

He needs to change the shape of the team. There is no getting away from the fact we lack some quality in terms of our forwards, but at the same time we aren't creating much in the box for the forwards to attack. Most our goals end up being absolute belters because we don't do anything in the box and moves break down at the edge so guys like Connolly need to be able to lash it in from there.

I'd love it if we were scoring tap ins because it would indicate we were getting players into the box quickly and moving well enough to overwhelm defences.

It's the same trap McGlynn fell in with the 4-2-3-1 shape. It helps you control possession but it relies so heavily on the quality of the guy leading the line that we don't really have. I'd happily have a bit less control and less possession if it meant we were more dangerous in and around the box.

So it's a question of how you get Vaughan and probably Gullan at this point into a two up top. Whether that's trying again with his 4-1-3-2 now that he has a more settled defence or maybe a 4-4-2 diamond? 

That's not to say it's our only issue, you are needing more from guys like Ross and Easton. The former has a great burst of acceleration and strength but rarely has played anywhere near his capabilities. Easton has the talent but tends to fade out of games especially when played out wide.

 

The problem with any change of shape to get two up front is you will likely have to change the position of our one consistent goal threat at the moment, Aidan Connolly. Anything other than a bog standard 4-4-2 would mean moving Connolly into a more central area where he would be less effective (I know he normally drifts in field anyway but it’s easier to deal with when that’s his starting position).

The 4-1-3-2 at the start of the season was murder, I know we have more players available now but I don’t think that’s the solution based on what we’ve seen of it. The narrow midfield diamond worked for us at times under McGlynn but that was with MacDonald and Tumilty providing width. Ngwenya is a willing runner but his quality from the wide areas is sadly lacking and I don’t think Millen has the pace to provide width on his own, he needs a winger ahead, creating space for him.

Not saying we shouldn’t try something new, I agree with you that we should be looking to find a solution that gets us two up front to counter our lack of out and out number 9 and focal point but it’s easier said than done, there’s not a blindingly obvious solution staring us all in the face but I suppose that’s Murray’s job to solve the conundrum.

For all our lack of cutting edge and focal point up front is our main issue and our defence overall has been fine this season, it shouldn’t be ignored that we have also lost 9 goals in our last 3 games and for the first time, O’Riordan is starting to look like he has a mistake in his game. We need solutions at both ends of the pitch. What a difference a few weeks make…

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Next week is surely the ideal chance to have a look at a different formation and different personnel. If he starts a team along similar lines to recent weeks then I would find that a bit worrying.

With games against Arbroath and Hamilton coming up soon we need to snap out of this slump sharpish. 

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1 hour ago, R.R.FC said:

The problem with any change of shape to get two up front is you will likely have to change the position of our one consistent goal threat at the moment, Aidan Connolly. Anything other than a bog standard 4-4-2 would mean moving Connolly into a more central area where he would be less effective (I know he normally drifts in field anyway but it’s easier to deal with when that’s his starting position).

The 4-1-3-2 at the start of the season was murder, I know we have more players available now but I don’t think that’s the solution based on what we’ve seen of it. The narrow midfield diamond worked for us at times under McGlynn but that was with MacDonald and Tumilty providing width. Ngwenya is a willing runner but his quality from the wide areas is sadly lacking and I don’t think Millen has the pace to provide width on his own, he needs a winger ahead, creating space for him.

Not saying we shouldn’t try something new, I agree with you that we should be looking to find a solution that gets us two up front to counter our lack of out and out number 9 and focal point but it’s easier said than done, there’s not a blindingly obvious solution staring us all in the face but I suppose that’s Murray’s job to solve the conundrum.

For all our lack of cutting edge and focal point up front is our main issue and our defence overall has been fine this season, it shouldn’t be ignored that we have also lost 9 goals in our last 3 games and for the first time, O’Riordan is starting to look like he has a mistake in his game. We need solutions at both ends of the pitch. What a difference a few weeks make…

Aye, agreed its easier said than done. Also agreed on O'Riordan starting to show his lack of experience at times.

I do wonder if the 4-1-3-2 might work better if you had Brad Spencer sitting at the base. Someone with the range of passing to take the ball off the defenders and work it forward: Brown struggled to link it all up earlier but might work with someone else in there (I'd still work Brown into the side for his ball winning abilities)

I suppose a 3-5-2/5-3-2 could be used to give some more solidity in defence and we'd have to play more of a counter attacking style.

He absolutely should use next week to try something, because something has to change.

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15 minutes ago, renton said:

Aye, agreed its easier said than done. Also agreed on O'Riordan starting to show his lack of experience at times.

I do wonder if the 4-1-3-2 might work better if you had Brad Spencer sitting at the base. Someone with the range of passing to take the ball off the defenders and work it forward: Brown struggled to link it all up earlier but might work with someone else in there (I'd still work Brown into the side for his ball winning abilities)

I suppose a 3-5-2/5-3-2 could be used to give some more solidity in defence and we'd have to play more of a counter attacking style.

He absolutely should use next week to try something, because something has to change.

All of those also likely nullify one of our main players in Connolly. I said the same in the match thread that we're just as bad at creating good chances as we are at finishing the ones we do create. You're right that we would benefit from a strong forward leading the line but we also have 3 players behind the forward that are, overall, doing less than they should be. 

When you play 1 striker you have a reliance and expectation on the wide players and number 10 to contribute weekly with either goals or assists. The whole setup is geared to getting those players in and around the box, finding spaces and using it. We're not doing that nearly enough. Only Connolly is contributing right now. We also get less from our fullbacks getting forward as much as we'd like. Millen has vastly improved since September and when he gets forward he can find a cross, Ngwenya doesn't have that confidence, you see it a lot when he gets forward he turns back and plays the safe ball or more often than not, has to because his touch let him down. 

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14 hours ago, CountryBumpkin said:

All of those also likely nullify one of our main players in Connolly. I said the same in the match thread that we're just as bad at creating good chances as we are at finishing the ones we do create. You're right that we would benefit from a strong forward leading the line but we also have 3 players behind the forward that are, overall, doing less than they should be. 

When you play 1 striker you have a reliance and expectation on the wide players and number 10 to contribute weekly with either goals or assists. The whole setup is geared to getting those players in and around the box, finding spaces and using it. We're not doing that nearly enough. Only Connolly is contributing right now. We also get less from our fullbacks getting forward as much as we'd like. Millen has vastly improved since September and when he gets forward he can find a cross, Ngwenya doesn't have that confidence, you see it a lot when he gets forward he turns back and plays the safe ball or more often than not, has to because his touch let him down. 

How about a speculative 3-4-3?

Nolan/O’Riordan/Dick   (Lang for Nolan option)

Brown/Easton/Stanton/Spencer

Connolly/Gullen/Vaughan   (Ross for Vaughan and Connell for Gullen options)

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9 hours ago, TxRover said:

How about a speculative 3-4-3?

Nolan/O’Riordan/Dick   (Lang for Nolan option)

Brown/Easton/Stanton/Spencer

Connolly/Gullen/Vaughan   (Ross for Vaughan and Connell for Gullen options)

I would think that this would be too narrow a formation. I would rather go 3-5-2. 

Back 3 of Lang/Nolan - O'Riordan - Dick

Brown sitting deep to protect the 3.

4 in front with Vaughan or Stanton and Spencer Centre  Connolly right and one of Gullan or Easton on the left.

Up top either Gullan and Vaughan if not used in the 4 or Connell and one of Gullan/Vaughan and if he is good enough Frederikson. 

The 5 in midfield would not be wingbacks. For me a midfield as Jimmy Nicholl once said wins you games. 

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5 minutes ago, Superhutch said:

im not sure Vaughan would be an automatic start for me at this stage tbh 

 

 

His competition is Gullan, Connell and Frederiksen. I'd start Gullan and I'd start Vaughan before Connell and Frederiksen even before he had his ACL operation.

Edited by renton
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Couldn’t muster the motivation or energy to post after making the round trip to Ayr.

In terms of being outclassed I’d say only Dundee away 2nd half is the only time I’ve thought we’re the inferior team this season. We’ve played poorly often enough but that was the only time I can recall thinking there’s little we can do to counter this. 

We once again imo look a better footballing team than Ayr but that’s only up until the box. It’s frightening and worrying how little we actually created against a makeshift back 4 of Ayr.

Reality is our budget isn’t on the same level as the teams above and it really shows in the final third. I do wonder where we’d be if we had the big lad Dipo and gave him service. The league table is starting to resemble it being in order of biggest budget to lowest. I do Wonder how much the DG saga has really set us back. 
 

Murray stated he needs to get some experience in the window when being interviewed by BBC Scotland and that’s simply a must.

With Dunfermline and potentially Falkirk coming up next season we simply cannot be flirting with the relegation playoff assuming Hamilton are down. Abroath go on a run and we don’t get out of this slump we’re pulled in to a battle at the wrong end of the table.

Can’t fault the work rate of the players but sometimes when you see wee guys like Connolly, Vaughn and Easton it does feel like boys v men at times. 
 

Lastly big John needs more of an opportunity when we’re creating heehaw in games..one a couple of knock down headers in the short window he was given Saturday that on another day would’ve created an opportunity. Better than sand dancing around the box to eventually lose position and chase their counter. 

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19 hours ago, RAITHROVERS84 said:

Couldn’t muster the motivation or energy to post after making the round trip to Ayr.

In terms of being outclassed I’d say only Dundee away 2nd half is the only time I’ve thought we’re the inferior team this season. We’ve played poorly often enough but that was the only time I can recall thinking there’s little we can do to counter this. 

We once again imo look a better footballing team than Ayr but that’s only up until the box. It’s frightening and worrying how little we actually created against a makeshift back 4 of Ayr.

Reality is our budget isn’t on the same level as the teams above and it really shows in the final third. I do wonder where we’d be if we had the big lad Dipo and gave him service. The league table is starting to resemble it being in order of biggest budget to lowest. I do Wonder how much the DG saga has really set us back. 
 

Murray stated he needs to get some experience in the window when being interviewed by BBC Scotland and that’s simply a must.

With Dunfermline and potentially Falkirk coming up next season we simply cannot be flirting with the relegation playoff assuming Hamilton are down. Abroath go on a run and we don’t get out of this slump we’re pulled in to a battle at the wrong end of the table.

Can’t fault the work rate of the players but sometimes when you see wee guys like Connolly, Vaughn and Easton it does feel like boys v men at times. 
 

Lastly big John needs more of an opportunity when we’re creating heehaw in games..one a couple of knock down headers in the short window he was given Saturday that on another day would’ve created an opportunity. Better than sand dancing around the box to eventually lose position and chase their counter. 

Aye, I don't know everyone's budgets but I'd guess the league table is relatively representative of that.  We are broadly where I expected us to be, albeit a bit further behind the top 4.

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Why on earth are we playing a friendly against Hibs? The last thing we need just now is any knocks or strains for first team players. It stinks of Murray wanting to do his old club a favour more than getting any benefit for us.

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