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The New Raith Rovers Thread


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14 minutes ago, raith1974 said:

How do you or I know who is available. That's a matter for managers and football clubs. One things for sure Connell is not a Championship striker if he was Killie would have played him last season. A pointless signing and certainly no better than Mitchell. My god I sound like TX.

I meant available for selection at the moment (basically excluding Vaughan).  Also worth asking since you are privvy to boardroom info around finances it seems.  

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1 hour ago, CALDERON said:

I meant available for selection at the moment (basically excluding Vaughan).  Also worth asking since you are privvy to boardroom info around finances it seems.  

I won't disclose who I heard the rumour about us having no money but the person is connected to the club.

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Just now, raith1974 said:

I won't disclose who I heard the rumour about us having no money but the person is connected to the club.

I think it's plain to see, we released or lost a right back, 4 CBs, a left back, 2 centre midfielders,  a winger and 2 forwards, over 10 players some of which were big earners and replaced them with a kid from Aberdeen, a kid from Killie, a young keeper and 5 what I'd call 1st team players. Our bench is full of kids some of which are not good enough and others that should be out on loan. 

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12 minutes ago, raith1974 said:

I think it's plain to see, we released or lost a right back, 4 CBs, a left back, 2 centre midfielders,  a winger and 2 forwards, over 10 players some of which were big earners and replaced them with a kid from Aberdeen, a kid from Killie, a young keeper and 5 what I'd call 1st team players. Our bench is full of kids some of which are not good enough and others that should be out on loan. 

I feel that most of the reduction in budget, if there is any is down to having two big money ties this season in the form of Dundee and even that only pulled in a 3200 crowd first time around. Reduced prize money this season based on last season's finish, cup money spent on DG and Ethan Ross and the auto increases in some wages as well as a massive shortfall each season already according to Sim, we have to reduce the budget for signings. 

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Murray has explicitly said there is money for signings and we are always looking to add. He also said he would rather run with a smaller squad. We have four players out injured (who are still getting paid) and we will probably try and add a couple more. You’re looking at us being 6 players away from a complete squad. That makes a huge difference. Calm doon ffs. 

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I feel that most of the reduction in budget, if there is any is down to having two big money ties this season in the form of Dundee and even that only pulled in a 3200 crowd first time around. Reduced prize money this season based on last season's finish, cup money spent on DG and Ethan Ross and the auto increases in some wages as well as a massive shortfall each season already according to Sim, we have to reduce the budget for signings. 
We were told DG position was not effecting the budget.
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1 hour ago, foreverarover said:
4 hours ago, CountryBumpkin said:
I feel that most of the reduction in budget, if there is any is down to having two big money ties this season in the form of Dundee and even that only pulled in a 3200 crowd first time around. Reduced prize money this season based on last season's finish, cup money spent on DG and Ethan Ross and the auto increases in some wages as well as a massive shortfall each season already according to Sim, we have to reduce the budget for signings. 

We were told DG position was not effecting the budget.

Don't forget the £50k transfer fee we paid for him as well, though. 

Overall, fully agree - Sim has said it isn't affecting the budget and, taking that at face value, I guess we need to accept it unless it emerges otherwise. 

It is quite infuriating the money that came in last season and how badly it was spent. Two ties against Celtic at Parkhead and the sale of Dylan Tait for £100k. Then we wasted £50k on Goodwillie plus whatever we paid him a week (over £1k seemingly) and then James Keatings, who we successfully managed to pay off. McGlynn really fucked it last season and set us back a couple of years.

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2 hours ago, foreverarover said:
5 hours ago, CountryBumpkin said:
I feel that most of the reduction in budget, if there is any is down to having two big money ties this season in the form of Dundee and even that only pulled in a 3200 crowd first time around. Reduced prize money this season based on last season's finish, cup money spent on DG and Ethan Ross and the auto increases in some wages as well as a massive shortfall each season already according to Sim, we have to reduce the budget for signings. 

We were told DG position was not effecting the budget.

The money to shift him on sure, but the money to get him was already used before that.

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5 hours ago, Hank Scorpio said:

Murray has explicitly said there is money for signings and we are always looking to add. He also said he would rather run with a smaller squad. We have four players out injured (who are still getting paid) and we will probably try and add a couple more. You’re looking at us being 6 players away from a complete squad. That makes a huge difference. Calm doon ffs. 

If there was “no” money for him to sign  1 or 2 more I think Murray will be the type of guy to come out and say it, but I do agree with got 4 to come back(Spencer and Matthews being the earliest) with possibly another 2 added with will be a big boost to the squad 

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6 hours ago, Michael W said:

Don't forget the £50k transfer fee we paid for him as well, though. 

Overall, fully agree - Sim has said it isn't affecting the budget and, taking that at face value, I guess we need to accept it unless it emerges otherwise. 

It is quite infuriating the money that came in last season and how badly it was spent. Two ties against Celtic at Parkhead and the sale of Dylan Tait for £100k. Then we wasted £50k on Goodwillie plus whatever we paid him a week (over £1k seemingly) and then James Keatings, who we successfully managed to pay off. McGlynn really fucked it last season and set us back a couple of years.

Didn’t we hear all the Tait monies have yet to be paid? Seem to remember that somewhere.

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Sim said that hibs still hadn't paid for tait but it was due in soon. 

We have taken a hit financially for one reason or another. Last season really surprised me with the players we brought in and the length of contracts being freely dished out. I do appreciate we had the park head money but still.

This season seems far more tempered and perhaps Sim/whoever are being a bit tighter with the purse strings. 

Sim said we need a striker and I think we will get one but hf the league is in the same boat in that regard. 

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25 minutes ago, pub car king said:

 

Sim said that hibs still hadn't paid for tait but it was due in soon. 

 

This is quite normal, many transfer fees are spread over several payments and years. We signed the deal so surly he can’t be complaining about it.  I’m not sure if sim was complaining or if he was just letting us know. I’d like to think he was just letting us know what was going on 

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Really strange start to the season, for me.

3 defeats out of 5 isn’t good.  What’s quite concerning is that all 3 defeats have seen early goals conceded, and most of the goals conceded have been pretty poor.  Going to places like Firhill and losing isn’t unexpected really, but losing goals in the manner we did is just infuriating/ Ironically, I think the centre backs have been largely fine (obviously Nolan had a clanger on Sat), O’Riordan in particular has strolled it.  I don’t think many centre backs will keep Graham as quiet as that.  There is question marks around both full backs. Might be that we were just spoiled with Tumilty, but I’ll be diplomatic and say the jury is out in that department.

The positive is that in all 3 of the defeats, we could have quite easily got points.  All 3 saw at least one absolute sitter missed.  Off the top of my head we had the Gullan shot from 6 yard box vs Cove, Connell one on one in same game, Ross vs Dundee, Gullan off the post on Sat, Ross sitter on Sat – plus the longer range shots vs Cove that hit the bar/good saves from keeper.  The chances are there.

However…….it all comes back to that same point.  We are starting games without a striker, and bringing a pretty raw young loanee on as our only recognised one.  That obviously doesn’t help the “not scoring enough goals” part, but really, really harms us with regards to overall play.  I get the point around Mitchell, to an extent, but other than a few impressive cameos and a good game against a terrible Peterhead – we haven’t seen much of him.  Connell at least has some record of scoring goals in the SPFL, as meagre as that record is.  It’s obviously not enough to hang our hat on though.

There was a period of time on Saturday where we were trying to work the ball through the midfield, getting crowded out, and resorting to playing it long.  However because we were playing it long to someone who isn’t a striker, it comes straight back.  And on the occasions when Gullan wins the ball (which has done a few times to be fair to him), there isn’t anyone in the part of the pitch where he should be.  Gullan isn’t lazy, he isn’t necessarily a poor footballer at all – but he is being played out of position.  

I don’t think we need the 15 goal a striker miracle signing any more – but we need someone with a bit of intelligence in that area of the pitch. Someone on the Partick thread mentioned “game intelligence” – and that point is key.  Work rate, effort etc have been great – but there’s just that bit of “something” missing in the final third. Someone who could hit a barn door would be good also, I guess.

There’s reason for encouragement though.  Leaving games against Dundee and Partick after defeats wasn’t unexpected given where the squad was at the start of the season, but leaving these games ruing missed chances and feeling like we could/should have got a result is a veneer of positivity that I wasn’t quite expecting.  The 4 players still to come back in are better than any 4 signings we could make – but 2 of them are injury prone (in particular Vaughan, obviously, and we have to assume that any minute he plays is a bonus).  It’s also not as simple as slotting 4 quality players in there, as you never know how that disrupts the flow of a team who will have been playing together for a few months by that point.

 

 

This week is absolutely massive for Murray.  I know there is a loan window etc still to run – but I think really we need a “transfer”  of our own to build a bit of a buzz.  There is obviously an element of the support he still needs to get onside (you could argue he never will) – everyone pulling in the same direction is pretty key.

All of that said, we are in a better place than I think we may have been under Mcglynn – at least it feels like something has changed and is evolving from what was an absolutely horrible 2nd half of the season – worst I can remember feeling as a Rovers fan for some time.  It will take time, its obvious that many things last season have had a knock on effect into this campaign – but I can see what the manager is trying to do and theres enough there to look forward to the season. I’ll properly judge Murray when I’ve seen enough of a turnover to call it “his” squad, and I think it will be Jan earliest before we could start to see that.  Until then its about making the most of whats there, and creating space to bring in much needed additions.

I really want to see that tactic of bringing everyone back into the box get fired into the sea, however.  

 

 

 

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Maybe an element of truth in what Sim said in his interview in that whatever type of player we're after will go down to the wire (if we are holding out for some marquee signing). If Sim and Murray are saying there's funds there to bring players in, on top of the sale of Zanatta, then I really hope they (along with our new 1st team scout that I had forgotten about) can find someone.....anyone....that can come in and improve the squad. 

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1 hour ago, CALDERON said:

Really strange start to the season, for me.

3 defeats out of 5 isn’t good.  What’s quite concerning is that all 3 defeats have seen early goals conceded, and most of the goals conceded have been pretty poor.  Going to places like Firhill and losing isn’t unexpected really, but losing goals in the manner we did is just infuriating/ Ironically, I think the centre backs have been largely fine (obviously Nolan had a clanger on Sat), O’Riordan in particular has strolled it.  I don’t think many centre backs will keep Graham as quiet as that.  There is question marks around both full backs. Might be that we were just spoiled with Tumilty, but I’ll be diplomatic and say the jury is out in that department.

The positive is that in all 3 of the defeats, we could have quite easily got points.  All 3 saw at least one absolute sitter missed.  Off the top of my head we had the Gullan shot from 6 yard box vs Cove, Connell one on one in same game, Ross vs Dundee, Gullan off the post on Sat, Ross sitter on Sat – plus the longer range shots vs Cove that hit the bar/good saves from keeper.  The chances are there.

However…….it all comes back to that same point.  We are starting games without a striker, and bringing a pretty raw young loanee on as our only recognised one.  That obviously doesn’t help the “not scoring enough goals” part, but really, really harms us with regards to overall play.  I get the point around Mitchell, to an extent, but other than a few impressive cameos and a good game against a terrible Peterhead – we haven’t seen much of him.  Connell at least has some record of scoring goals in the SPFL, as meagre as that record is.  It’s obviously not enough to hang our hat on though.

There was a period of time on Saturday where we were trying to work the ball through the midfield, getting crowded out, and resorting to playing it long.  However because we were playing it long to someone who isn’t a striker, it comes straight back.  And on the occasions when Gullan wins the ball (which has done a few times to be fair to him), there isn’t anyone in the part of the pitch where he should be.  Gullan isn’t lazy, he isn’t necessarily a poor footballer at all – but he is being played out of position.  

I don’t think we need the 15 goal a striker miracle signing any more – but we need someone with a bit of intelligence in that area of the pitch. Someone on the Partick thread mentioned “game intelligence” – and that point is key.  Work rate, effort etc have been great – but there’s just that bit of “something” missing in the final third. Someone who could hit a barn door would be good also, I guess.

There’s reason for encouragement though.  Leaving games against Dundee and Partick after defeats wasn’t unexpected given where the squad was at the start of the season, but leaving these games ruing missed chances and feeling like we could/should have got a result is a veneer of positivity that I wasn’t quite expecting.  The 4 players still to come back in are better than any 4 signings we could make – but 2 of them are injury prone (in particular Vaughan, obviously, and we have to assume that any minute he plays is a bonus).  It’s also not as simple as slotting 4 quality players in there, as you never know how that disrupts the flow of a team who will have been playing together for a few months by that point.

 

 

This week is absolutely massive for Murray.  I know there is a loan window etc still to run – but I think really we need a “transfer”  of our own to build a bit of a buzz.  There is obviously an element of the support he still needs to get onside (you could argue he never will) – everyone pulling in the same direction is pretty key.

All of that said, we are in a better place than I think we may have been under Mcglynn – at least it feels like something has changed and is evolving from what was an absolutely horrible 2nd half of the season – worst I can remember feeling as a Rovers fan for some time.  It will take time, its obvious that many things last season have had a knock on effect into this campaign – but I can see what the manager is trying to do and theres enough there to look forward to the season. I’ll properly judge Murray when I’ve seen enough of a turnover to call it “his” squad, and I think it will be Jan earliest before we could start to see that.  Until then its about making the most of whats there, and creating space to bring in much needed additions.

I really want to see that tactic of bringing everyone back into the box get fired into the sea, however.  

 

 

 

A lot of good points in there overall, good post.

On Tumilty though, we're definitely spoiled in terms of what he offered going forward, he was awful defensively though, out of position so often and not overly comfortable in the tackle. 

As for losing out on headers from the long balls, if we're going to do that, and it'll happen because really a defender should rarely lose those in the air given they have the positional and tactical advantage over the striker who has back to goal, pushing for position and usually has to make the bulk of the movement to get to the ball in the first place, we have to be winning the second ball and we're just not. 

Our setup is weird, we play to other teams strengths by ignoring our own. High balls to a short forward isn't a good plan but we don't adjust often enough to make things work for us. Like you said, we were getting crowded in midfield when trying to play out and that was due to Partick pressing and our midfielders not being given the right options around them. We didn't up the tempo or make any moves to find some space. If we have to go long, then get it down the channel, get the defenders turning and on their heels. 

What worries me more on the forward search is there are no rumours, no suggestions of possible signings, nothing. I personally can't think of anyone who's available we can get that gives us a boost. The whole window relies on other teams making their moves so we can pick up their existing, unwanted players in return. Hopefully some movement this week.

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To be fair, there hasn't been much in the way of rumours for the signings that have happened so far.  Hopefully that's down to things no longer leaking like a sieve in that department.

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Would struggle to get a worse draw than that. Away to Aberdeen for the fourth time this year and adds an extra game against a team who we're already scheduled to play 4 times, on the day of the Scotland vs Ireland game. Can't imagine we'll take more than a handful. 

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