The New Raith Rovers Thread

[Ro Sham Bo]

I don't think the comparison with Murray's time at Airdrie is the most valid. I think there are more parallels to be drawn with his spell at St Mirren. 

[Raith Against The Machine]

10 hours ago, Ro Sham Bo said:

He's got next week to show he can turn it around, and the board should be having a quiet word with him to clarify that defeat next week is unacceptable.

I am convinced he'll do worse for us than Gary Locke. He's that bad. 

You were also convinced that the Rovers were about to be relegated immediately prior to their fifteen game run without loss last season, so you'll forgive us if we don't pay full heed to your mad Nostradamic ravings. 

[Ebanda's Handyman Services]

12 hours ago, Ro Sham Bo said:

A defeat next week and for me Murray has to go.

I reckon you just fire out these mad takes early doors so you can lord it up if they actually happen. 

 

[Raith Against The Machine]

It's worth pointing out, I didn't see or hear any of this kind of dafty overreaction at the game yesterday. While Stark's Park still has the capacity for a Den's-esque boo-a-thon in the right circumstances, there's a lot more forgiveness for defeats in the right spirit than there would have been, say, five years ago. 

There was one boy near me doing his dinger about Ross Millen but it was fairly reserved and, y'know, kinda justified, but the players and the manager were applauded at the end, which I think is fair recognition at the end of a game where there was no lack of effort or application from the guys who were out there. 

We've obviously still got issues to be addressed, but they're largely an absence of specific types of players. The players we do have are visibly putting everything into it, which hasn't always been the case in the past, and I think there's widespread patience in the support to reflect that.

Don't get me wrong, if we're still goalless in five games time then folk will be going tonto, but at this moment in time I'm not seeing a real world reflection of this Pie & Bovril headloss. 

[Been going too long]

27 minutes ago, Against The Machine said:

It's worth pointing out, I didn't see or hear any of this kind of dafty overreaction at the game yesterday. While Stark's Park still has the capacity for a Den's-esque boo-a-thon in the right circumstances, there's a lot more forgiveness for defeats in the right spirit than there would have been, say, five years ago. 

I agree,think the crowd was good yesterday, stuck by the team and players deserved a round of applause at the end as it was a decent performance and a big improvement on the last game I went to at Dumbarton. I still think matej would do a job for us but hopefully we get a striker in soon and gullan won a lot in the air yesterday shame no one was there to benefit from it

[Craigus]

There was a superb moment after about 30 mins when we put together a flowing move and Ngwenya miss-hit his cross, a guy behind me was absolutely booing his face off. Probably the same one booing at the end of QOS friendly

Overall a much improved performance from last week and we deserved a point, but we still lack a cutting edge. Thought Gullan did well with what he was given, decent hold up and touches but he isn't a poacher type (as we all know).

[baillieinleeds]

26 minutes ago, Been going too long said:

I agree,think the crowd was good yesterday, stuck by the team and players deserved a round of applause at the end as it was a decent performance and a big improvement on the last game I went to at Dumbarton. I still think matej would do a job for us but hopefully we get a striker in soon and gullan won a lot in the air yesterday shame no one was there to benefit from it

I absolutely agree, Matej would definitely complete the forward positions. Not many will agree though. He knows the club. 

Just no more kids. 

Edited August 7, 2022 by baillieinleeds

[Diamonds are Forever]

1 hour ago, R.R.FC said:

I’m not sure where the idea that Murray will take 3 seasons to get things right either. It seems to be suggested by Airdrie fans who say he ultimately failed in his target to get them up and it took until last season to have a proper go at the title. However, would anyone have predicted Airdrie to win the title at any point Murray was in charge? There have been teams with bigger budgets every season who would have been expected to finish above Airdrie and it would have been a big shock and huge achievement if he’d won the league at any point with them.

Since Airdrie were relegated to League One their record before and after Murray is as follows:

Before Murray

6th      
5th      
5th        
3rd       
7th

After Murray 

5th (Appointed after 9 games)    
3rd     
2nd    
2nd

So his 3 full seasons in charge were better we’re better than anything they had managed in the 5 seasons before he took charge. Gradual improvement every season obviously but he pretty much overperformed the pre season expectation every season. It’s not like he took over play off regulars tasked with going to the extra step to win the league, they were nowhere near promotion till he took over.

Airdrie have started this season well and good luck to them, would prefer to see them win the league over Falkirk or the Pars. But the new manager has inherited a much better and confident squad than Murray did and they are two games in, we will see if they sustain it over the course of the season. It certainly doesn’t take anything away from what Murray did there.

Wild for anyone to be calling for Murray’s head after 2 games, I can only assume those doing so are at the wind up. We haven’t won at home since December and won 1 out of 16 league games without Brad Spencer under McGlynn last season. We then lost our manager to a team who have been the laughing stock of Scottish football for the last few seasons which doesn’t say a lot for the faith he had in the project at the Rovers. It was naive for anyone to think that with the bulk of the squad remaining the same, we would hit the ground running from the start of the season. This is a squad of players than has been in the habit of not winning games. We were in relegation form the second half of last season.

Now it’s not just bad luck responsible for that, there are deficiencies in the squad which Murray has to address. And he has made some mistakes with recruitment IMO, we were never going to get better than Tumilty but Millen looks a poor signing and Nolan needs a run of games to be judged fully but I’m not convinced he’ll be better than anything we had last season, although I believe some of those departing were finance related rather than ability. I think Brown looks decent in midfield and his versatility and leadership means I don’t get the criticism for his signing. Despite being well stocked in midfield he is a different type of player to what we had in there and it was needed. Likewise I think Easton has plenty to offer, looked sharp off the bench yesterday and also our brightest player off the bench at Pittodrie so it’s not a question of ability at a higher level, just needs to develop consistency which will come with games and I still think he can be a big asset for us.

If we can get the right striker addition (big IF obviously) and some key players returning from injury we will be in a much better place soon. We’ve not been played off the park at any point this season, it’s small margins, with a settled back 4 gelling together, more cutting edge upfront we will hopefully get a much needed win soon and use the momentum to kick on. I think there are too many weaknesses in the squad for challenge for the top 4 but a 5th/6th place isn’t out the question and would be fine for what is a transitional season.

If we are showing Dunfermline under Peter Grant form in terms of performances and results at the end of the first quarter then of course Murray should be under serious pressure but we are a long way from that at the moment and I saw enough yesterday to take some encouragement going into the next couple of games.

Tl;dr - Murray has proven himself to be decent manager, he’s made some mistakes so far but needs to be given a fair crack of the whip and I think we’ll be okay.

 

A well written post.

I'm obviously speaking from the outside, but just looking at Raith last season I feel like people underestimate how tough a job Murray has. At first glance you see they finished 5th and therefore it would just take a small improvement to reach the play-offs. However Raith's league form in the 2nd half of last season was atrocious. From the second round of 18 fixtures they picked up 17 points. For comparison, Queen of the South picked up 16, Dunfermline 21. You effectively had a relegation side for the 2nd half of the season, and top league scorer had 8 goals. I don't know whether Raith over performed in the first 18 games or under performed in the second 18 games, but either way it's clear the side was lacking something. I know they won the Challenge Cup but Cups, particularly that one, aren't a great indicator of anything, as having 2 teams in dreadful form competing in that final illustrates.

I've no idea the cause of that decline in form (I'm sure the DG stuff did not help) but that's difficult to turn round, particularly with the well known issues with recruitment this year. As has been said I think with time Murray will turn things round, that being said the fact is very few clubs these days will give managers years to fix things so I doubt he'll get that luxury.

Edited August 7, 2022 by Diamonds are Forever

[Scottydog]

2 hours ago, Diamonds are Forever said:

 

A well written post.

I'm obviously speaking from the outside, but just looking at Raith last season I feel like people underestimate how tough a job Murray has. At first glance you see they finished 5th and therefore it would just take a small improvement to reach the play-offs. However Raith's league form in the 2nd half of last season was atrocious. From the second round of 18 fixtures they picked up 17 points. For comparison, Queen of the South picked up 16, Dunfermline 21. You effectively had a relegation side for the 2nd half of the season, and top league scorer had 8 goals. I don't know whether Raith over performed in the first 18 games or under performed in the second 18 games, but either way it's clear the side was lacking something. I know they won the Challenge Cup but Cups, particularly that one, aren't a great indicator of anything, as having 2 teams in dreadful form competing in that final illustrates.

I've no idea the cause of that decline in form (I'm sure the DG stuff did not help) but that's difficult to turn round, particularly with the well known issues with recruitment this year. As has been said I think with time Murray will turn things round, that being said the fact is very few clubs these days will give managers years to fix things so I doubt he'll get that luxury.

The facts clearly speak for themselves and you are quite correct in you assumptions but you missed a key issue. The team was obviously missing a goal threat up front but the main issue was more the fact that we let in far too many goals. Arbroath(+10), ICT(+9), Killie (+6) and Partick (+2) all out scored us some by as many as 10 but we leaked goals in comparison 17 more than Killie, 16 more than Arbroath and 10 and 4 more than ICT and Partick respectively. So the facts are that the defence and attacking areas both need work done, yes?  Yet 48 hours before the 1st league game IM has signed no strikers and one suspect RB, but before he's seen his new charges play he's signed 2 midfielders, this being IMO an area we were strongest in.

There are jobber managers aplenty out there and I'm in the I hope IM isn't one of em camp. When McGlynn walked I knew the options were few and far between, Other than the never going to happen (Jack Ross) Murray was my preferred option but I do feel he is a downgrade on what we had just as most of the players who've come in the door are a downgrade on what we had last season.... and a good few of them were't good enough to start with.

I don't think as a club we are going in the right direction. I heard that certain board members are being shunned and that there is some real disharmony behind the scenes. David Goodwillie remains on the payroll and it is still having a negative impact and causing grief.

[CALDERON]

A decent chunk of the team who went on that awful run last season still remain.  That really can't be underestimated.  There's only so much Murray can do when you come into a pretty big squad of players who didn't do the business last season.  

 

[Ro Sham Bo]

If I was a board member being shunned I would just resign. If its as bad as that surely there will be changes at board level sooner rather than later. 

[CALDERON]

This really sums up the problem we had yesterday. Gullan does really well here to win the flick in, but he is our furthest forward player!

[Dee244]

Worst first 20 I’ve seen a long time but had a bit more hope after the second half and felt we were the better team. If we had a striker we would have had at least a point. 
 

Very Impressed by O’Riordan if we can clone 2 of him until Nolan gets on the protein and mince and Tatties as well as a bit of confidence. Don’t understand why Easton doesn’t start sticks out like a sore thumb. Much more positives than last week and if they are favourite’s for the league. I don’t feel there’s any need to panic.  Especially with the injury list returning. 

[CountryBumpkin]

31 minutes ago, Scottydog said:

The facts clearly speak for themselves and you are quite correct in you assumptions but you missed a key issue. The team was obviously missing a goal threat up front but the main issue was more the fact that we let in far too many goals. Arbroath(+10), ICT(+9), Killie (+6) and Partick (+2) all out scored us some by as many as 10 but we leaked goals in comparison 17 more than Killie, 16 more than Arbroath and 10 and 4 more than ICT and Partick respectively. So the facts are that the defence and attacking areas both need work done, yes?  Yet 48 hours before the 1st league game IM has signed no strikers and one suspect RB, but before he's seen his new charges play he's signed 2 midfielders, this being IMO an area we were strongest in.

There are jobber managers aplenty out there and I'm in the I hope IM isn't one of em camp. When McGlynn walked I knew the options were few and far between, Other than the never going to happen (Jack Ross) Murray was my preferred option but I do feel he is a downgrade on what we had just as most of the players who've come in the door are a downgrade on what we had last season.... and a good few of them were't good enough to start with.

I don't think as a club we are going in the right direction. I heard that certain board members are being shunned and that there is some real disharmony behind the scenes. David Goodwillie remains on the payroll and it is still having a negative impact and causing grief.

I'd heard last week that only Sim and Morgan went to Cove at board level. Chairman popped off on holiday, no one else went up. Seemed a poor show for the first game of the season more than anything else. But then if any are being shunned, which given how few are there already it feels more understandable. 

[Mr.Blue]

I'd be very surprised if rovers don't start picking up points soon. Always been impressed by Murray and his airdrie teams. He's added a few good players too and there's still time for more. Seems like every team in the league is finding it tough to bring in players.

Looking forward to next week and a wee visit to Kirkcaldy. Hopefully Muirhead can produce another moment if magic like last time.

[Raithfan2711]

Add to that the CEO, who I bet is on a sizeable wage.

Based on rumours, posts on here and some callers in the K107 show, she appears to have overseen numerous failed or botched projects/communications, has lied to sponsors and has been a key factor in losing good staff and volunteers.

Can’t remember seeing or hearing a thing from her that has went out publicly since January outside a few pieces in the match programme (which seems to be different from last season?). Very unusual for the CEO of any business to do this never mind one who needs to assure supporters their money is being well spent.

Is the club in good hands and being run better now? 

[Michael W]

Not really a surprise people.are pissed off, is it? The squad is worse than last season's, the manager hasn't addressed a glaring failing of last season and signed a striker (I.e. one other than a youngster on loan), we made an arse of an easy LC group and have started with back to back defeats for the first time since god knows when. It is a shite state of affairs. 

A defeat to Dundee is far from the end of the world, but the preceeding games didn't exactly set the heather alight - defeat to Cove (not great), defeat to Aberdeen (expected) and draws with Dumbarton and Stirling Albion (poor). We need to improve quickly, or we will be in a relegation fight. As has been pointed out, our form in the second half of last season was consistent with that of a team in a relegation battle and we've started in the same vein despite pretty major changes. 

The last part is something that troubles me. Ever since that bloody signing in January the whole club has had a banter era feel about it. Things just continue to end up being a drama, even mundane things like trying to sign a bloody defender. I know it's not rational, but I fear the end result of this will be relegation.

 

[She who dares gins]

I don't think the comparison with Murray's time at Airdrie is the most valid. I think there are more parallels to be drawn with his spell at St Mirren. 

That’s the comparison I’d draw TBH. I felt we were more an exception to the rule but also there was something in that group of players that just clicked. That was more the magic of last season than IM.

You do need to give him time though.

[Enigma]

Can you really say we’ve started in relegation form after just two games? I feel like people’s arses are twitching a bit because we haven't done things the “McGlynn way” which everybody is comfortable and used to of starting like a steam train before falling to pieces come November/December. I’m hopeful that we grow into this season a bit as the team gel. Play like we did for most of the game yesterday next week and we should have our first win.

As for the “banter” aspect to our club, look in the club office and boardroom, not at the football side. Couldn’t even sell out our hospitality for our first home game….

[mrpaddyx]

It was my first game of the season and whilst the first 20 mins was pretty awful I didn't think we were too bad after that.

O'Riordan, Brown and Connolly from the starters all looked good and it seems obvious that Easton needs to start next week.

On the other side Millen looked awful and we really, realy need a natural striker as Gullan just doesn't look like the player we need in that position.