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The New Raith Rovers Thread


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3 hours ago, Raithie said:

I contacted the club several weeks ago asking what the script is with the club shop and if they were planning to get anymore stock in the lead up to Christmas. Got a reply saying they've had major supply issues with the manufacture and were expecting a load of new stuff/stock this month. 

https://www.raithrovers.net/51360/black-friday-deals.htm

New merch/stock coming into club shop next week hopefully.

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18 hours ago, Raith_Raver said:

Yes, I agree things have improved, and no doubt the following generations identify as Fifers, besdies - as you say - folk flitting up there. If we had taken the opportunity to build a new stadium up near the bypass we would have attracted a lot more from Glenrothes/Leslie and Markinch.

Has moving away from a town centre ever increased the number of fans through the gate? Genuine question as my opinion is teams who’ve moved out the centre of town have seen crowds go down not up. Starks for its faults is walking distance from the Centre, the train station and the bus station and has the infrastructure a town centre brings (bars, restaurants, takeaways) a new stadium up in the middle of an industrial estate near a bypass has nothing around it. I think you’d lose far more fans than you’d gain, my personal experience is soulless Lego brick stadiums outside towns are not a great move. 

Edited by San Starko Rover
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Your points are arguable, although the train and bus stations aren't all that near the ground, and the limited parking at Beveridge Park isn't great (for big games anyway). I don't think the newer "lego" stadia like Airdrie's, Livi's, St Johnstones etc are that bad, and much better than rows of pillars.

The context of suggesting a new stadium to the North of the town was being more attractive to the 40,000 residents of Glenrothes and nearby towns; I wouldn't think that would affect our Kirkcaldy support. So yes, being nearer a bigger population centre with easy aess and parking  I think would have increased our support.

 

Edited by Raith_Raver
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1 hour ago, San Starko Rover said:

Has moving away from a town centre ever increased the number of fans through the gate? Genuine question as my opinion is teams who’ve moved out the centre of town have seen crowds go down not up. Starks for its faults is walking distance from the Centre, the train station and the bus station and has the infrastructure a town centre brings (bars, restaurants, takeaways) a new stadium up in the middle of an industrial estate near a bypass has nothing around it. I think you’d lose far more fans than you’d gain, my personal experience is soulless Lego brick stadiums outside towns are not a great move. 

Do you mean Scottish teams moving out of town or teams in general?

Up here, it didn’t hurt St Johnstone.

Around 2002 there was talk of a leisure park between Glenrothes and Kirkcaldy. I suppose if you built a stadium beside that it would do okay. Maybe that would drive a second train station.

 

Edited by Scary Bear
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9 minutes ago, Frank conner said:

It's pretty simple teams like Dunfermline, Falkirk etc Have had a sustained period of success thats how they can build a fanbase . Even during our glory years in the mid nineties we couldn't go more than two seasons before it started to fall apart. 

i would say that's definitely a factor - teams with a successful tradition. There's also the "negative" of that, as it were - how often have we had a big crowd at a game, attracting lost or former supporters only to flop and send them away with a shrug, never to return; that play off with Alloa at Stark's is a case in point.

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3 minutes ago, Raith_Raver said:

i would say that's definitely a factor - teams with a successful tradition. There's also the "negative" of that, as it were - how often have we had a big crowd at a game, attracting lost or former supporters only to flop and send them away with a shrug, never to return; that play off with Alloa at Stark's is a case in point.

Think you mean the last game of the season where we choked and lost the league title. The crowds at the play-off games were pitiful because people (and possibly the team too) were so dispirited after missing out on the league title. 

09E01854-31B8-40CF-AA94-C30B6130BBAE.png

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1 hour ago, Scary Bear said:

Think you mean the last game of the season where we choked and lost the league title. The crowds at the play-off games were pitiful because people (and possibly the team too) were so dispirited after missing out on the league title. 

09E01854-31B8-40CF-AA94-C30B6130BBAE.png

Yes, I think you're right, the game when Vaughan hit the post in the last minute.

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2 hours ago, Scary Bear said:

Do you mean Scottish teams moving out of town or teams in general?

Up here, it didn’t hurt St Johnstone.

Around 2002 there was talk of a leisure park between Glenrothes and Kirkcaldy. I suppose if you built a stadium beside that it would do okay. Maybe that would drive a second train station.

 

No arguments that St Johnstone have done well on the park in recent years but have their attendances gone up from the Muirton Park days? The point was moving would bring in new support from Glenrothes and other towns / villages. Does St Johnstone moving out of town back this up and how much have their gates increased? 

Edited by San Starko Rover
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3 minutes ago, San Starko Rover said:

No arguments that St Johnstone have done well on the park in recent years but have their attendances gone up from the Muirton Park days? The point was moving would bring in new support from Glenrothes and other towns / villages. Does St Johnstone moving pit of town back this up and how much have their gates increased? 

The distance from Muirton to McDairmid is more or less insignificant. Better parking and road access, and also the nearby P&R  should be expected to boost the gate compared to them still being at Muirton, but who can say by how much...

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4 minutes ago, Raith_Raver said:

The distance from Muirton to McDairmid is more or less insignificant. Better parking and road access, and also the nearby P&R  should be expected to boost the gate compared to them still being at Muirton, but who can say by how much...

Yes you say better access and parking but what percentage drive to games compared to walk or public transport.  I genuinely don’t know what St Johnstone’s attendances where in the 80s but did they improve by moving or go down? It’s great to say move out of town = bigger support as it’s easier to drive there and park but is there evidence to back this up. Any move will always  lose and gain supporters but you’ve got be certain you’ll gain more than you lose. Off the top of my head I’d say Clyde and Airdrie are two who I’d say have lost by moving but what teams have moved and got bigger crowds? Livingston but they moved completely.  

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Yes you say better access and parking but what percentage drive to games compared to walk or public transport.  I genuinely don’t know what St Johnstone’s attendances where in the 80s but did they improve by moving or go down? It’s great to say move out of town = bigger support as it’s easier to drive there and park but is there evidence to back this up. Any move will always  lose and gain supporters but you’ve got be certain you’ll gain more than you lose. Off the top of my head I’d say Clyde and Airdrie are two who I’d say have lost by moving but what teams have moved and got bigger crowds? Livingston but they moved completely.  
Airdrie crowds dropped due to the way the club decided to get back into the league. Clyde are just nomads and Cumbernauld is predomently old firm.
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1 minute ago, foreverarover said:
15 minutes ago, San Starko Rover said:
Yes you say better access and parking but what percentage drive to games compared to walk or public transport.  I genuinely don’t know what St Johnstone’s attendances where in the 80s but did they improve by moving or go down? It’s great to say move out of town = bigger support as it’s easier to drive there and park but is there evidence to back this up. Any move will always  lose and gain supporters but you’ve got be certain you’ll gain more than you lose. Off the top of my head I’d say Clyde and Airdrie are two who I’d say have lost by moving but what teams have moved and got bigger crowds? Livingston but they moved completely.  

Airdrie crowds dropped due to the way the club decided to get back into the league. Clyde are just nomads and Cumbernauld is predomently old firm.

Ok great but which teams have improved their crowds by moving, I’m all for a new ground if it helps bring more punters in but I’m concerned it’ll do the opposite.

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47 minutes ago, San Starko Rover said:

No arguments that St Johnstone have done well on the park in recent years but have their attendances gone up from the Muirton Park days? The point was moving would bring in new support from Glenrothes and other towns / villages. Does St Johnstone moving out of town back this up and how much have their gates increased? 

When they first moved to McDiarmid and won the league, yes, they had a great support. Haven’t looked at their attendances in recent years.

St Johnstone don’t have another town of similar size next door. A town who don’t have a league club. I would have thought if we weren’t seen as a Kirkcaldy club, we’d be more likely to get support from Glenrothes.

Edited by Scary Bear
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27 minutes ago, San Starko Rover said:

Yes you say better access and parking but what percentage drive to games compared to walk or public transport.  I genuinely don’t know what St Johnstone’s attendances where in the 80s but did they improve by moving or go down? It’s great to say move out of town = bigger support as it’s easier to drive there and park but is there evidence to back this up. Any move will always  lose and gain supporters but you’ve got be certain you’ll gain more than you lose. Off the top of my head I’d say Clyde and Airdrie are two who I’d say have lost by moving but what teams have moved and got bigger crowds? Livingston but they moved completely.  

That’s comparing apples and pears. Clyde and Airdrie lost their home grounds and were nomadic for a few years before appearing in totally new locations. That’s what killed off their supports. 

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4 minutes ago, Scary Bear said:

When they first moved to McDiarmid and one the league, yes they had a great support. Haven’t looked at their attendances in recent years.

What about years they didn’t win the league? (that’s hardly an average season) what we’re the average numbers for Muirton? 

 

heres there last few seasons they average about 4K in the top league and 3k in the 2nd tier not bad for a place the size of Perth. 
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/st-johnstone-fc/besucherzahlenentwicklung/verein/2578

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3 minutes ago, San Starko Rover said:

What about years they didn’t win the league? (that’s hardly an average season) what we’re the average numbers for Muirton? 

 

heres there last few seasons they average about 4K in the top league and 3k in the 2nd tier not bad for a place the size of Perth. 
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/st-johnstone-fc/besucherzahlenentwicklung/verein/2578

Not sure. I just remember they got a sizeable boost the first season they moved to McDiarmid.

Falkirk are probably a good example. They moved out of town and their crowds are pretty good. Wouldn’t surprise me if they are better than they were at Brockville or at least as good.

Edited by Scary Bear
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10 minutes ago, Scary Bear said:

Not sure. I just remember they got a sizeable boost the first season they moved to McDiarmid.

Fantastic but I’d be interested to know if it was a 1/2 season novelty bounce and how crowds were in the long term. I’m honestly not being a dick here I’m genuinely curious of the facts which neither of us seems to have (we might need a St Johnstone fan 😂).  Crowds aside one thing St Johnstone have done which clubs like ourselves should be trying to replicate is they’re clearly doing things right in terms of generating revenue by other means. I’m sure their stadium is crucial to this. 

Edited by San Starko Rover
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