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The New Raith Rovers Thread


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44 minutes ago, renton said:

Mendy's positioning is still suspect but miles better than it was (which was non existent). Good in the air but over reactive when sticking his leg in. Actually like his distribution a lot.

I suspect I'm being well harsh here but agree on Thompson. Never really rated him and thought he should have done better with the first goal, and, this is where I'm sure I'm being harsh... as good as the 2nd reaction save was, I felt he kinda fucked the fist block a bit so they the 2nd became necessary.

I do feel as if I’m nitpicking as we have had a tremendous start to the season, but that back line tonight was weak. Our budget is probably shot but I’d like to see a replacement for Mendy if possible.

Our midfield is superb. Don’t think they will last long here so get them signed up on extended deals so at least we get some cash in, 

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4 hours ago, roverthemoon said:

I do feel as if I’m nitpicking as we have had a tremendous start to the season, but that back line tonight was weak. Our budget is probably shot but I’d like to see a replacement for Mendy if possible.

Our midfield is superb. Don’t think they will last long here so get them signed up on extended deals so at least we get some cash in, 

I think Musonda and Mendy may well be our end of season starting back two. Davo is likely maxed out this season and I doubt he will return at this level as a full time starting player. Bene may last longer, but he seems a little slow at this level, perhaps because of the wear and tear.. Mendy’s positioning should improve with play/experience/coaching, and Musonda needs a real run at CB so we can see what we have.  Both are, physically, upgrades over Davo and Bene. Mendy’s distribution appears excellent, so his mental game is there, but I think he needs the exposure to improve his positioning...and, yes, that’s a double edged sword. Musonda is playing excellently as a wing back (even on the “wrong” side), but he was brought in as a CB, so let’s see him there.

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Mendy has, so far, cut out the errors and he does look significantly better than last season. But I’d agree I wouldn’t want to be relying on playing him for any length of time. His positioning is still completely random at times and you heard Bene going mental at him on several occasions. That said, his passing is good, he was completely dominant in the air and aggressive on the ground when he was positioned right. He wasn’t dreadful... but yeah, he’s fourth choice CB.

Only two of that back five normally play, maybe three if Musonda moves over to CB longer term, so I’m not too concerned about losing the goals. Also feel Thomson wasn’t great albeit deserves huge credit for the wonder save in the last minute. With a few players back or even a few options that aren’t 16 on the bench I think we’d have won that match, even accounting for the basketball manner in which it was played.

Duku back with a couple of goals (could’ve been more!), Regan Hendry was absolutely supreme in the last 30 mins or so, Ethan Ross was terrific. We should really have been out of sight at half time, and perhaps playing ten men too. Plenty positives although I’m disappointed to be going out of the tournament. Felt we had a real shot at progression.

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Mendy is an actual option at centre half now, albeit not first choice, which is more than I ever thought he would be.

He won't get into our strongest team, and there is still a lot of work to do there.  However, he didn't have any howlers, and looked pretty good with the ball at his feet.  His positioning isn't good enough yet though - I thought he should have done better at the first goal.  However he has come on and contributed in a good few games now.

He is able to come in now and do some kind of job when the injury situation requires it.  Frankly, thats a huge improvement on 12 months ago. 

 

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24 minutes ago, rrfc83 said:


Would say 0% as it’s only the top 4 best placed that qualify for next round

Hate the League Cup since it went to this crappy group stage nonsense.  The fact that this has probably been our best year and we’ve still zero chance of progressing sums it up. If you put in group stages then it gives the bigger teams the chance to have an off night but recover. The joy of the knockout format is that one off night and you’re out. Imagine the drama of that penalty shoot out last night if it was a genuine chance to progress rather than just deciding who finishes runner-up to Hearts. 
 

Never ceases to amaze me how Scottish football authorities always find formats that extract the excitement from the game - Prolonged League Cup group stages, Colt teams in the Challenge Cup and worst of all, two-legged play-off finals instead of a winner takes all match at a neutral ground. 

Edited by roverthemoon
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49 minutes ago, Scary Bear said:

https://spfl.co.uk/league/league-cup/table
 

How likely is it that we’ll qualify if we manage to beat Cowdenbeath and finish on 8 points?

Very low. You needed to beat ICT outright really. I've analysed the runner up positions for Ayr on their thread but 8 points is pretty unlikely to get you anywhere close to a best runner up spot. There could be teams on 9 not get in this year.

Edited - cos I quoted the wrong post.

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10 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

Very low. You needed to beat ICT outright really. I've analysed the runner up positions for Ayr on their thread but 8 points is pretty unlikely to get you anywhere close to a best runner up spot. There could be teams on 9 not get in this year.

Edited - cos I quoted the wrong post.

I thought our chances might be on the low side. Just checking. I was hoping someone like yourself would tell me that we had a 37% chance or the likes. Something I could get moderately excited about. Not to be.

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22 minutes ago, roverthemoon said:

Hate the League Cup since it went to this crappy group stage nonsense.  The fact that this has probably been our best year and we’ve still zero chance of progressing sums it up. If you put in group stages then it gives the bigger teams the chance to have an off night but recover. The joy of the knockout format is that one off night and you’re out. Imagine the drama of that penalty shoot out last night if it was a genuine chance to progress rather than just deciding who finishes runner-up to Hearts. 
 

Never ceases to amaze me how Scottish football authorities always find formats that extract the excitement from the game - Prolonged League Cup group stages, Colt teams in the Challenge Cup and worst of all, two-legged play-off finals instead of a winner takes all match at a neutral ground. 

The football authorities are just giving the noisy minority what they wanted. There had been talk of group stages for a few years before they were implemented. 

For the record, I also dislike the group stage format. No doubt the football authorities will give in to pressure in the future, when people get properly fed up with the group stages again. And round and round we go.

Edited by Scary Bear
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12 minutes ago, Scary Bear said:

The football authorities are just giving the noisy minority what they wanted. There had been talk of group stages for a few years before they were implemented. 

For the record, I also dislike the group stage format. No doubt the football authorities will give in to pressure in the future, when people get properly fed up with the group stages again. And round and round we go.

It’s funny when you get to be a vintage that has seen things going in cycles. When I started supporting Rovers there were dull group stages in the League Cup and everyone agreed they were turgid. They were ditched for the one-off and penalties knockout drama of the Skol Cup.  Now we’re back where we started. And so it continues. Just hope another cup win for us also comes back round again.  

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Yeah, the group stages are fucking terrible. Admittedly because we’ve never actually got out a group we’ll have clouded judgement of it, but I’m really not a fan. In normal times the games are played far too early in July and feel like friendlies into the bargain.

It’s two guaranteed home games though, at least one on a Saturday, plus the TV deal that wasn’t there for the early rounds before, so revenue must be up fairly significantly compared to the potential of one Tuesday night match. Will be hard to get rid of it.

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15 minutes ago, Scary Bear said:

The football authorities are just giving the noisy minority what they wanted. There had been talk of group stages for a few years before they were implemented. 

For the record, I also dislike the group stage format. No doubt the football authorities will give in to pressure in the future, when people get properly fed up with the group stages again. And round and round we go.

I don't dislike the group stages. I think that's better to be honest than what we had before. I do dislike the inequity of the scenario where only the best 4 of 8 runners up get in. It's very subjective to the fixture order and the relative standards of the group. And it's been additionally screwed up this year by Covid. I'm not just saying that because it's hurt us this year either, I've been saying it for years.

We're in a group with 5 full time teams this year. Ayr are in a group with three League 2 part timers in it (& and a Hamilton side who can barely buy a win). I appreciate there's an element of luck of the draw in that of course but it doesn't make the fight for a "best" runner up an even chance.

I also don't agree with them using last year's finishing positions for seeding a competition this year. This means a relegated Hearts are a seed but a promoted Dundee United are not. That's less of an issue this year anyway with Hearts being such a big club but it leaves your group with no Premier side for instance (though with 3 Championship ones it's still very tough). Meanwhile the St Johnstone / Dundee United group has two Premier sides in it.

The fixture imbalance makes it far harder for teams that don't play on matchday 5 to get a best runner up as they don't know what they require to do.

And just for good measure, you get the Covid 3-0 awards this year (& Kilmarnock playing their youth team v Dunfermline) that corrupt it further. Dundee, Dunfermline (effectively) and Falkirk were all handed 3-0 wins. That corrupts the goal differences in their favour. It's pretty unlikely Dunfermline and Falkirk would both have finished with 9 points plus and big GD's if they'd actually had to play Kilmarnock. Falkirk will probably go through on the back of that Covid awarded result.

I'm not sure how they do it and I appreciate that this year has all sorts of fixture scheduling issues, but they need to find a way that all runners up qualify. They could just introduce an extra round with all 8 runners up going into 4 ties to eliminate 4 of them. It would only take one extra match date.

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19 minutes ago, roverthemoon said:

It’s funny when you get to be a vintage that has seen things going in cycles. When I started supporting Rovers there were dull group stages in the League Cup and everyone agreed they were turgid. They were ditched for the one-off and penalties knockout drama of the Skol Cup.  Now we’re back where we started. And so it continues. Just hope another cup win for us also comes back round again.  

Those groups WERE turgid though. You played each team twice and fixtures were regularly completely irrelevant. That's less so now.

The groups are not the issue now, it's the bizarre methods of progressing that are the issue.

12 minutes ago, Paco said:

Yeah, the group stages are fucking terrible. Admittedly because we’ve never actually got out a group we’ll have clouded judgement of it, but I’m really not a fan. In normal times the games are played far too early in July and feel like friendlies into the bargain.

It’s two guaranteed home games though, at least one on a Saturday, plus the TV deal that wasn’t there for the early rounds before, so revenue must be up fairly significantly compared to the potential of one Tuesday night match. Will be hard to get rid of it.

Yep, the income from this is way more than you ever got losing in the early rounds of a knock out comp so it won't be going away any time soon as long as there are sponsors for it.

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17 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

 They could just introduce an extra round with all 8 runners up going into 4 ties to eliminate 4 of them. It would only take one extra match date.

This would be a good solution, plus group winners could play off on same game day, 4 winners get a quarter final seeding rather than just giving them to the ‘4 best’ group winners.

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20 minutes ago, ribzanelli said:

This would be a good solution, plus group winners could play off on same game day, 4 winners get a quarter final seeding rather than just giving them to the ‘4 best’ group winners.

Meh, they could but I'm less bothered about the seeding being decided by group records and if all 8 are going through anyway it's a bit daft to have them play off for something where losers advance anyway. You could very easily get one beat another for seeding then drawn against each other again the next round and an entirely reversed result.

I don't think there'd be any appetite for group winners to play off for something as trivial as a seeding.

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1 hour ago, roverthemoon said:

Hate the League Cup since it went to this crappy group stage nonsense.  The fact that this has probably been our best year and we’ve still zero chance of progressing sums it up. If you put in group stages then it gives the bigger teams the chance to have an off night but recover. The joy of the knockout format is that one off night and you’re out. Imagine the drama of that penalty shoot out last night if it was a genuine chance to progress rather than just deciding who finishes runner-up to Hearts. 
 

Never ceases to amaze me how Scottish football authorities always find formats that extract the excitement from the game - Prolonged League Cup group stages, Colt teams in the Challenge Cup and worst of all, two-legged play-off finals instead of a winner takes all match at a neutral ground. 

While the authorities often get it wrong I don't think they got the LC totally wrong especially this season in a reduced calendar. The group stages were always meant to be a good way of getting more games (revenue) for teams that would likely go out early and not get to play a more lucrative top tier team, I'm not a fan of all of it and especially don't think they got the east/west split right.

This current format makes it difficult for teams like us to qualify but some smaller teams still do (East Fife last year) but it does (in non covid seasons) provide income for smaller teams who are guaranteed a SPL team in their group and hopefully more cash than they'd make if they were put out in R1 by say Cove or Annan.

I'd keep the group stages but tweak the whole thing by removing the non pro sides and making all teams compete in the groups, lord knows the ugly sisters, Aberdeen and even Hibs should easily have enough resources to field a competitive enough teams in a competition that they say is relatively worthless. If that could be engineered into 8 groups with the winners and runners up going through it'd be better but 42 teams throws it out of line. Perhaps Skyline's idea of the 8 second best sides playing off is a cleaner way.

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I don’t have any great objections to the group stages but what my gripe is , is seeding.

Why do the bigger teams have the huge advantage of being seeded. Surely everyone should have an equal chance and the groups are picked with everyone in the hat and you take your luck with the draw. You may get a tough group but you may get a easier group but we should all have an equal chance and not be bias towards the bigger teams who have enough of an advantage. If there are three top teams in the same group then so be it

It should be an all in draw.

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Much has been made of the totally different and vastly improved playing style of John McGlynn Mark 2. And with a quiet day at work (and being a bit sad when it comes to stats) I thought I would see if there was a visible difference in the stats between his previous spell.

In all competitions, McGlynn has been in charge of 82 games in his second spell (not including Fife Cup). So I took the first 82 games of his first spell as a comparison. This wasn’t as much work as it sounds btw! 😂 It was pulled together in half an hour so hopefully all the figures are correct.

Interestingly, to me anyway, he has the exact same win ratio in his first 82 games of both spells with 42 wins. He has faired slightly better this time around with 6 more draws and 6 less defeats.

Our away form was actually better than our home form in his first spell. We averaged 1.88 points per game away and 1.54 PPG at home. Things have obviously changed dramatically in his second spell with an average of 2.22 PPG at home and 1.34 PPG away from home.

On the style of play, we have scored 159 goals in his second spell that is 30 more than his last spell averaging almost 2 goals a game but we have conceded 18 more with 112 in total this time around.

Finally in his first spell we failed to score on average every 4 games and kept a clean sheet every 3 games. In his second spell we keep a clean sheet on average every 4 games but only fail to score every 10 games which is a significant improvement.

So yeah the facts show what we can all see; that we are much more open attacking side this time around. Obviously early days at this level but I think John (and Paul Smith) deserve huge credit for adapting and moving with the times by totally changing their style, I can’t think of many managers who have done this in recent years, particularly in Scotland.

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Genuinely surprised that anyone likes the group stages, but can see the financial argument for games and revenue. I’m guessing that’s why it was changed much like the two legged play off final. The extra game and match income trumps the increased potential for drama and excitement. 

To me it just takes away what is great about cup football - the chance for shocks. The bigger teams will 9 times out of 10 progress so you’re left with the final rounds of the League Cup being the same old mix of top tier teams. Yes it brings more income but what are lower league fans going to remember in twenty years time? The two matches against higher league clubs that boosted their income one season or the night they beat Hibs on penalties in a straight knock-out match. There’s no contest.

I go back to last night. After we both lost to Hearts the penalty shoot-out was reduced to who could be the better also-ran in the group. If that was a knock-out game the players would have went daft at the end and we’d still be reminiscing about it in ten years time. 

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