The New Raith Rovers Thread

[Ro Sham Bo]

Knowing our injury record it's no doubt probable that one of Vaughan, Ugwu or Ross is going to be out for a while. If it's Ross or Vaughan that would seem to signal a change in our formation so if it has to be someone I'm hoping it's Ugwu because we look look a real handful with this current set up. 

[embow]

32 minutes ago, Scary Bear said:

Welcome to Lars. Hopefully he can find his feet in Scottish football with the Rovers.

You'd like to hope he sees them at the bottom of his legs!

[Messi Scott]

Yeah we definitely need back-up considering how injury prone our players are. I really hope Vaughan can stay fit this season, he is absolutely one of the best players in the league on his day 

[Scary Bear]

4 minutes ago, embow said:

You'd like to hope he sees them at the bottom of his legs!

That’s the sort of expert advice our fanbase can provide. Lars is a lucky man indeed. Luckier still when they let us back in the ground and we can scream our words of wisdom from the stands.

[Ro Sham Bo]

1 minute ago, Messi Scott said:

Yeah we definitely need back-up considering how injury prone our players are. I really hope Vaughan can stay fit this season, he is absolutely one of the best players in the league world on his day 

 

[Hank Scorpio]

14 minutes ago, Messi Scott said:

Yeah we definitely need back-up considering how injury prone our players are. I really hope Vaughan can stay fit this season, he is absolutely one of the best players in the league on his day 

You’re like a bot that’s been taught to comment on Raith Rovers related things. 

[mrpaddyx]

14 minutes ago, Ro Sham Bo said:

Yeah we definitely need back-up considering how injury prone our players are. I really hope Vaughan can stay fit this season, he is absolutely one of the best players in the league  universe on his day 

 

[Raith Against The Machine]

3 minutes ago, Hank Scorpio said:

You’re like a bot that’s been taught to comment on Raith Rovers related things. 

Looks like those clowns in Dunfermline did it again. What a bunch of clowns. 

[Frankly, Mr Shankly]

Grant Anderson scoring two in two.  

[Hank Scorpio]

[Messi Scott]

45 minutes ago, Hank Scorpio said:

You’re like a bot that’s been taught to comment on Raith Rovers related things. 

Nothing wrong with what I said at all, you’re clearly a bit obsessed 

[da_no_1]

Genuine question - how many games has Vaughan played in the Championship?

[Zen Archer (Raconteur)]

27 minutes ago, da_no_1 said:

Genuine question - how many games has Vaughan played in the Championship?

Approximately 70.

[da_no_1]

1 hour ago, Zen Archer Esq. said:

Approximately 70.

Not trying to be a dick but 52 of those were 5 years ago. I know you guys have a very high opinion of him (cue the 3 fingers jpeg) but it might be a wee bit of a stretch to say he's one of the best players in the championship given his lack of games at this level in the last 5 years. Obviously time will tell when the guy gets back in your team.

[Double Jack D]

10 minutes ago, da_no_1 said:

Not trying to be a dick but 52 of those were 5 years ago. I know you guys have a very high opinion of him (cue the 3 fingers jpeg) but it might be a wee bit of a stretch to say he's one of the best players in the championship given his lack of games at this level in the last 5 years. Obviously time will tell when the guy gets back in your team.

To be honest, I'd be satisfied this season if he completed a handful of games and was a mediocre championship player.

[R.R.FC]

1 hour ago, da_no_1 said:

Genuine question - how many games has Vaughan played in the Championship?

Don’t know exactly but I’d imagine it’ll be 50+ but that’s including sub appearances. Although those appearances were between the ages of 16-21.

It has all been covered before but there is no doubt he would not be anywhere near us or this level without injuries. He had his breakthrough season under Grant Murray in 14/15 where at 19 years old he finished the season with 6 goals in his last 13 games at Championship level.

He picked up where he left off the next season with 2 in his first 2 games but unfortunately suffered his first ACL injury 30 minutes into that second game missing the whole season.

He came back during the Gary Locke season and although he should never have been loaned out he, understandably, took a bit of time to get back to his previously levels. He admitted himself he struggled a bit with his rehab and probably didn’t come back quite as fit as he should have and he has learned from that for his subsequent recoveries. Unfortunately for us at the time, he got his fitness and sharpness back with Dumbarton and finished the season well with 4 in his last 10.

Since then all his appearances have been at League One level where he has been a cut above any time he was fit. He has also scored 5 goals in 6 games against Championship/Premier League teams in cup games during that time. It’s a real shame we only got to see Vaughan, Nisbet and Hendry play a full 90 minutes together once (5-1 win at Dumbarton). Would love for him to get 2-3 seasons with regular games and without injuries to see if he can still fulfil his potential. 

There is a risk this may be one injury too many but the positive is that when he came back last time it was like he’d never been away and scored 2 in his 2 appearances and still stood out a mile. Although I’ve highlighted his goal scoring record his best asset is his creativity, he is superb on the ball and a joy to watch when on it, he will fit really well into McGlynn’s current style. I think he showed enough in his cameo at Tynecastle for us to be cautiously optimistic if he can just get a consistent run of games I think he can still be a big asset to a side like ours at this level. But it is a fairly big ‘if’ at the moment.

Apologies, I realise that is a lot more about Vaughan than you would ever care to know! But hopefully explains why Rovers fans have such a high opinion of him.

[Raith Against The Machine]

21 minutes ago, da_no_1 said:

Not trying to be a dick but 52 of those were 5 years ago. I know you guys have a very high opinion of him (cue the 3 fingers jpeg) but it might be a wee bit of a stretch to say he's one of the best players in the championship given his lack of games at this level in the last 5 years. Obviously time will tell when the guy gets back in your team.

I'd agree with this. There's not enough evidence to support the assertion that Vaughan is one of the best players in the league. I don't think too many people would seriously suggest that. 

What I will say, though, is any time Vaughan has been out for a while, I've started to think "Is he really that good? Is it a case of a player getting better in the minds of the support the longer he's out?" and then he's been even better than I expected. 

That has largely been at a lower level, although as you say his hattrick in the Cup was pretty compelling evidence. 

He's got 13 goals in 73 Championship games, which isn't particularly impressive, although that does include all of his breakthrough game time. In League One, as a more mature player, he's got 21 goals in 46 games. For a player who isn't even an out-and-out striker, that's pretty good going. 

I think with most forwards at this stage of the season, you look at them and say "Can he get ten goals this season?". With Vaughan, for me, it's about games. Can he make 25 starts? If he can, I'd be very confident about him scoring or creating (depending on his role) double figures. 

[Broken Algorithms]

45 minutes ago, Raith Against The Machine said:

I'd agree with this. There's not enough evidence to support the assertion that Vaughan is one of the best players in the league. I don't think too many people would seriously suggest that. 

What I will say, though, is any time Vaughan has been out for a while, I've started to think "Is he really that good? Is it a case of a player getting better in the minds of the support the longer he's out?" and then he's been even better than I expected. 

That has largely been at a lower level, although as you say his hattrick in the Cup was pretty compelling evidence. 

He's got 13 goals in 73 Championship games, which isn't particularly impressive, although that does include all of his breakthrough game time. In League One, as a more mature player, he's got 21 goals in 46 games. For a player who isn't even an out-and-out striker, that's pretty good going. 

I think with most forwards at this stage of the season, you look at them and say "Can he get ten goals this season?". With Vaughan, for me, it's about games. Can he make 25 starts? If he can, I'd be very confident about him scoring or creating (depending on his role) double figures. 

Agree with this completely. If you want to see a player getting better in the minds of the support after they've left, you only need to look at Grant Anderson. Most people, myself included, are saddened that we've lost a player who has been a brilliant servant for the club but we've gone up a level. While it's disappointing that he's left the club after signing a new deal, a small number of folk were getting upset because he's got two goals in two games for Kelty against teams they've pumped on a regular basis (just actually looked and there's a post a post from yesterday saying the same).

Nobody can say with any certainty how Vaughan will get on. In fact, I'd go as so far to say he's one of the few players where you can't comment with any certainty at all given how precarious his injury position is.  The sad reality is that we'll never see Vaughan fulfil his full potential he had when he was coming through - we've seen both Shankland and Nisbet go on to Scotland caps and goals in the top flight and the early potential of Vaughan suggested he could have done the same. One cruciate injury is bad, two is horrendous, but three is pretty much unheard of. As you say, the most important thing is game time for the lad. It's incredible to think he's still only 24. Even if we need to spend time building him up, I'd rather we take our time in a restricted season to do it. 

Edited October 28, 2020 by Broken Algorithms

[Enigma]

Must have missed that Nisbet Scotland cap.

[Skyline Drifter]

1 hour ago, Broken Algorithms said:

Agree with this completely. If you want to see a player getting better in the minds of the support after they've left, you only need to look at Grant Anderson. Most people, myself included, are saddened that we've lost a player who has been a brilliant servant for the club but we've gone up a level. While it's disappointing that he's left the club after signing a new deal, a small number of folk were getting upset because he's got two goals in two games for Kelty against teams they've pumped on a regular basis (just actually looked and there's a post a post from yesterday saying the same).

Nobody can say with any certainty how Vaughan will get on. In fact, I'd go as so far to say he's one of the few players where you can't comment with any certainty at all given how precarious his injury position is.  The sad reality is that we'll never see Vaughan fulfil his full potential he had when he was coming through - we've seen both Shankland and Nisbet go on to Scotland caps and goals in the top flight and the early potential of Vaughan suggested he could have done the same. One cruciate injury is bad, two is horrendous, but three is pretty much unheard of. As you say, the most important thing is game time for the lad. It's incredible to think he's still only 24. Even if we need to spend time building him up, I'd rather we take our time in a restricted season to do it. 

I may be wrong but I think Jamie Adams suffered at least three. He had two in separate loan spells with us and I think he had another whilst on loan to Dundee later did he not?

Such a shame. I know he went on to be a cult hero at Ayr but a fully fit Jamie Adams was easily the best young midfielder I'd ever seen play for us at this level. I'm convinced he'd have gone on to play for Scotland at full level. The knee injuries certainly prevented him going far further in the game. Vaughan I suspect will be the same unfortunately. One of the few opposition players to genuinely make you sit up and take notice when he first broke through but it's hard to see him ever being fit enough now to play at the top level. Good luck to him though, I hope he makes it.