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The New Raith Rovers Thread

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1 hour ago, roman_bairn said:

Fair enough.

Still, I can’t see why your Chairman can talk about integrity on one hand but patently lie on the other. I noticed that a few of the wiser amongst your support - less one dimensional trolls - on this thread, are also beginning to question much of what he’s putting out in official statements....

TBH, I find it rather amusing that a Falkirk fan is commenting on double talk, misleading comments and misc other crap after the run of outright stupidity and deceit that their BoD and leadership has embarked upon in recent years.

I know most Raith fans do wish he’d clam up sometimes, but the venom in the comments seems a wee bit over the top for being annoyed that a stated position of a business person was later changed after the business had gained its goal. As has been often said, fitba is a cutthroat game with regards promotion and relegation...your friends at the table one week may be your enemies the next.

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7 hours ago, welshbairn said:

You'll have to ask them, I am. Not a penny for Raith though.

All ships rise on the tide I guess. In any event we haven't approached you, so you had nothing to refuse.

I do think there is a story to tell regarding the reconstruction votes. I dont think we were the only club who were represented on Budge's reconstruction committee who ended up voting against it. I suspect we won't find out until after the tribunal shit is done and dusted, but would you be surprised if the behaviour of Budge, Hearts generally and the various mooted details of the reconstruction had turned a lot of clubs off? I don't think it's simply a case of Clark making a big dramatic speech, double crossing Falkirk and then laughing maniacally has he is carried away on a rope ladder, winched up by a helicopter.

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Definitely not as black and white with regard to reconstruction. Especially the last proposal that was shot down like a lead ballon by the majority. 
 

Aye it may be a bit foolish to be all for it, then be against it when it comes to the vote but clearly once all information was taken in, minds were changed. 
 

If all the clubs just accepted the votes to cull the leagues at the beginning, regardless of the Dundee fiasco, all 4 divisions could have been starting next month...

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It's more about how it makes the club look that bothers me a bit. Being vocal supporters of a particular model of reconstruction, then not backing that model after we had already got what we wanted does not look good however you look at it. I get that there will be more to it, but that's how it looks. I know the model wasn't perfect but we had already gained out of this, we were awarded a title and promotion. I would have liked to see us give a little after gaining a decent amount to at least mitigate a bit of the damage to other clubs. The only perfect solution was finishing the season, which was never going to happen, and I feel this proposal at least mitigated a bit of the damage. Far from ideal, but probably the only solution that could shift the focus away from this clusterfuck and onto football. 

If we had finished 2nd and the guy Deans at Falkirk had done that I'm sure a fair few on here would be raging. What I would say however is Falkirk have no right to be more annoyed than Airdrie or Montrose. They finished in a playoff spot. For as much as some of their fans have mentioned sporting integrity, they would have accepted the reconstruction proposal in a heartbeat regardless of the perceived fairness or otherwise of their fellow playoff clubs gaining nothing. I would too in their position granted, but it's not really about integrity, its about Falkirk not benefitting. 

Apart from anything else, losing Hearts and Inverness whilst gaining Falkirk and Partick would have significantly helped our prospects on the field next season. 

If we are in League 1 next season, so be it. I just want to watch football again to be honest. I'm personally fed up with the whole situation and the general poisonous feeling it brings towards the club. It's a bit of a laugh to see how much it angers other fans on here and in twitter, but I'm not really keen on the club making enemies to be honest. We never know when we need other clubs to lend a helping hand (we are in such a situation) and how the club portrays itself in public can go a long way to steering that type of situation. Whilst there are many things I think this board have done well, this is something that needs a bit of work in my view. 

 

Edited by CALDERON

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To be fair, your club is talking about sporting integrity when it went greeting to the SPFL about the importance of promotion and a 14 team top division then voted against it once your promotion was secured.Now you want us to contribute to avoid you getting your comeuppance.

Sporting integrity of the SPFL my arse......

 

A point I’ve stated before. But that’s not the point I’m making really....

And what exactly is the point you’re making? Your rabble haven’t even been asked to contribute a penny yet they’re trying their hardest to be involved 🤣

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TBH, I find it rather amusing that a Falkirk fan is commenting on double talk, misleading comments and misc other crap after the run of outright stupidity and deceit that their BoD and leadership has embarked upon in recent years.
I know most Raith fans do wish he’d clam up sometimes, but the venom in the comments seems a wee bit over the top for being annoyed that a stated position of a business person was later changed after the business had gained its goal. As has been often said, fitba is a cutthroat game with regards promotion and relegation...your friends at the table one week may be your enemies the next.

Jeez, you’ve spent enough time on our thread to know that the Falkirk BoD have had nothing but stick from our support where merited.....

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2 minutes ago, roman_bairn said:


Jeez, you’ve spent enough time on our thread to know that the Falkirk BoD have had nothing but stick from our support where merited.....

At least until they started playing to the gallery with tear stained rants in statements and tweets about everyone forgetting Falkirk being the true victims of anything they can put their name to.

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35 minutes ago, CALDERON said:

What I would say however is Falkirk have no right to be more annoyed than Airdrie or Montrose. They finished in a playoff spot. For as much as some of their fans have mentioned sporting integrity, they would have accepted the reconstruction proposal in a heartbeat regardless of the perceived fairness or otherwise of their fellow playoff clubs gaining nothing. I would too in their position granted, but it's not really about integrity, its about Falkirk not benefitting. 

 

That whole post is bang on the money but especially the part I've quoted. 

Everyone is looking out for what's best for them. I'd want my club to do exactly what Hearts and Thistle are doing if we were in their position just like they'd want their club to have our standpoint if they were in our position. 

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2 hours ago, renton said:

All ships rise on the tide I guess. In any event we haven't approached you, so you had nothing to refuse.

I do think there is a story to tell regarding the reconstruction votes. I dont think we were the only club who were represented on Budge's reconstruction committee who ended up voting against it. I suspect we won't find out until after the tribunal shit is done and dusted, but would you be surprised if the behaviour of Budge, Hearts generally and the various mooted details of the reconstruction had turned a lot of clubs off? I don't think it's simply a case of Clark making a big dramatic speech, double crossing Falkirk and then laughing maniacally has he is carried away on a rope ladder, winched up by a helicopter.

There is little doubt in my mind that Budge is responsible for the failure. Her initial proposals with the two year limit were a total embarrassment and the most blatant embodiment of the "self-interest" that Hearts are purporting to be against. Quite simply, she was acting in bad faith with that and I have no doubt that her opportunism resulted in a substantial backlash, wiping out a lot of good faith. 

Quite why Budge was tasked with leading the reconstruction project when Hearts had the largest vested interest in it remains a mystery and can be assigned to another failure on the SPFL's part. She made little effort to put her biases aside in the first instance and paid the price for her arrogance. Goodwill is one of the hardest things to gain, but equally is just about the easiest thing you can lose. 

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41 minutes ago, Michael W said:

There is little doubt in my mind that Budge is responsible for the failure. Her initial proposals with the two year limit were a total embarrassment and the most blatant embodiment of the "self-interest" that Hearts are purporting to be against. Quite simply, she was acting in bad faith with that and I have no doubt that her opportunism resulted in a substantial backlash, wiping out a lot of good faith. 

Quite why Budge was tasked with leading the reconstruction project when Hearts had the largest vested interest in it remains a mystery and can be assigned to another failure on the SPFL's part. She made little effort to put her biases aside in the first instance and paid the price for her arrogance. Goodwill is one of the hardest things to gain, but equally is just about the easiest thing you can lose. 

Who chose the clubs for the reconstruction committee? It looked like it was designed to fail when they set it up.

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/who-are-14-people-spfl-reconstruction-panel-2545081

 

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9 hours ago, roman_bairn said:


As I was saying re one dimensional trolls...emoji16.png

Aw diddums, if your not happy with my comments  on a Raith page bugger off back downstairs.  

I’ve always supported reconstruction (and still would) but not one that has a 10 team Championship, do we know the full ins and out of exactly what was being proposed? I don’t but I suspect there must have been fair reasons why not just Raith voted against it but the MAJORITY of teams also. 
If Rovers were in the position of Hearts, Partick, Stranraer or even Falkirk fan I know I would be feeling bitter too, where I’d like to think I’d differ is in not lashing out and blaming every bugger else for my lot.  There comes a time when you just have to accept that your team finished where it did on merit, better appointments in the dugout and better performances on the pitch during the 6 months of actual football would have rendered the cases of those clubs un-needed instead of bleating on about what hypothetically might have happened in the long run.

As for the supposed high ground. moral integrity is a fine stick to beat others with but in the unwieldy hands of  some it just looks absurd. The simple truth of the matter is that If Hearts were a point above Hamilton, Partick a point above Alloa and Falkirk a point above Rovers then the outlook (and Likely voting) of those poor hard done by Clubs would have been very, very different and the moral line wouldn’t come into it, and what’s more deep down they all know it.

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26 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

Who chose the clubs for the reconstruction committee? It looked like it was designed to fail when they set it up.

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/who-are-14-people-spfl-reconstruction-panel-2545081

 

Looks fairly well balanced to me, 6 had either good reason to vote it through or had Previously voiced that they were keen on it.
 

Perhaps a board of Hearts, Partick, Inverness, Falkirk, Stranraer, Edinburgh City, Brora and Kelty Hearts would have been better balanced?

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Aw diddums, if your not happy with my comments  on a Raith page bugger off back downstairs.  

I’ve always supported reconstruction (and still would) but not one that has a 10 team Championship, do we know the full ins and out of exactly what was being proposed? I don’t but I suspect there must have been fair reasons why not just Raith voted against it but the MAJORITY of teams also. 

If Rovers were in the position of Hearts, Partick, Stranraer or even Falkirk fan I know I would be feeling bitter too, where I’d like to think I’d differ is in not lashing out and blaming every bugger else for my lot.  There comes a time when you just have to accept that your team finished where it did on merit, better appointments in the dugout and better performances on the pitch during the 6 months of actual football would have rendered the cases of those clubs un-needed instead of bleating on about what hypothetically might have happened in the long run.

As for the supposed high ground. moral integrity is a fine stick to beat others with but in the unwieldy hands of  some it just looks absurd. The simple truth of the matter is that If Hearts were a point above Hamilton, Partick a point above Alloa and Falkirk a point above Rovers then the outlook (and Likely voting) of those poor hard done by Clubs would have been very, very different and the moral line wouldn’t come into it, and what’s more deep down they all know it.

A. I’ve already stated my position re my own clubs predicament and I’ve long accepted the division we will stay in. No matter, it does not change the fact that your Chairman has not acted with much of the integrity that he has the cheek to claim he is defending and expect other clubs to pay for.

B. How other clubs voted is a complete irrelevance if they did not come out strongly in favour of position A and then vote for B. Yourselves and Dundee have no credibility as a consequence...

C. I don’t disagree re the self interest point and I’ve stated several times that I don’t support its structure nor it’s biased 11-1 ‘democratic’ voting basis...

 

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9 minutes ago, Scottydog said:

Looks fairly well balanced to me, 6 had either good reason to vote it through or had Previously voiced that they were keen on it.
 

Perhaps a board of Hearts, Partick, Inverness, Falkirk, Stranraer, Edinburgh City, Brora and Kelty Hearts would have been better balanced?

Out of those only Stranraer weren't represented. It needed more clubs without a particular axe to grind, and a more representative mix from the Premiership, which laughed it out of court before it even came up with a proposal.

Edited by welshbairn

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1 hour ago, welshbairn said:

Out of those only Stranraer weren't represented. It needed more clubs without a particular axe to grind, and a more representative mix from the Premiership, which laughed it out of court before it even came up with a proposal.

I  think that due to self interest that particular Nirvana can never really  exist in Scotland, any of the Premier league sides will vote against an expanded top flight, some L1 and almost all L2 sides would vote against bringing in more pyramid teams as it is a potential threat to their current or potential league status. I say potential as in my lifetime I've seen the likes of the bigger teams such as Killie, Partick, Ayr, Raith, Falkirk, Dunfermline, Airdrie all drop into the lowest tier and sometime 2nd tier sides like Cowden, Brechin and  Berwick fighting to stay in the leagues. The breathtakingly rapid fall from grace of Brechin City must be in the minds of many club chairmen.

Individual cases of self interest kill all of the rest stone dead, no chairman will vote in a plan that is financially debilitating to his club, especially for teams living near the relegation trapdoor  a scary thought of 2 teams coming up that have bigger supports than yours and potentially a better chance of relegating yourself.

So if forming a panel exclude PL, L2 and half of L1 sides and you are left with Raith Falkirk, Airdrie, Dundee, Dunfermline, Qots, Inverness, Morton, Ayr, Arbroath, Alloa and Partick as sides with apparently no axe to grind.....except that don't trust either Dundee or Rovers who have flip-flopped (for reasons unspecified) so who can tell what they'd do, Falkirk have a lot to gain so wouldn't be impartial as would Partick, Inverness and possibly Ayr might fancy their chances of being improved in a league without DUFC, HMFC and ICT as would Airdrie without Partick, Falkirk or Raith. Two teams that have narrowly avoided the drop in recent years are Alloa and QotS so they mightn't be keen to see revitalised Raith and Falkirk come up. Axes being ground right left and centre! Out of that lot only the Pars, Ton and Arbroath have little to gain or lose but from a financial aspect they will still vote for what brings in the most filthy lucre i.e. in this case the Maroon poond which is worth more than the Partick one!

In short the whole thing cycles one way or another on degrees of self interest and if you want an independent set up then best go buy one in from abroad, Barry Hearn come on down your time is nigh.

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6 hours ago, Wardy said:

If all the clubs just accepted the votes to cull the leagues at the beginning, regardless of the Dundee fiasco, all 4 divisions could have been starting next month...

Whit? 💁‍♂️

The delay in starting the lower leagues has the square root of absolutely nothing to do with any decision delays or uncertainty about Hearts, its about clubs at this level being unable to operate playing games closed door. If every club in Scotland had been absolutely in agreement with the best way forward and nodded it through in the last week of March we would still not be starting till October.

Edited by Skyline Drifter

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13 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

Whit? 💁‍♂️

The delay in starting the lower leagues has the square root of absolutely nothing to do with any decision delays or uncertainty about Hearts, its about clubs at this level being unable to operate playing games closed door. If every club in Scotland had been absolutely in agreement with the best way forward and nodded it through in the last week of March we would still not be starting till October.

Well if they accepted it, and then aye October start..👀😂 

I’m done now, I want the fitbaw back...😩

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Can we move all this pish to another thread please.

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