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The New Raith Rovers Thread

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Honest comment; can't help but wonder how Turnbull Hutton would have responded to the timing, structure and content of the SPFL proposal and their mis-handling of the whole sordid affair, given the respect pretty much every non-OF fan had for the guy.  Not getting into a petty Raith/Falkirk angle on this - just fecked off at the utter shambles Doncaster is responsible for...  vote by 5pm Friday, or well, actually, within 28 days; missing votes; re-cast votes; a "no" vote can change to a "yes" vote, but a "yes" vote can't change to a "no" vote...       I mean, WTAF?  Utter nonsense. 

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1 minute ago, Dennistoun Bairn said:

Honest comment; can't help but wonder how Turnbull Hutton would have responded to the timing, structure and content of the SPFL proposal and their mis-handling of the whole sordid affair, given the respect pretty much every non-OF fan had for the guy.  Not getting into a petty Raith/Falkirk angle on this - just fecked off at the utter shambles Doncaster is responsible for...  vote by 5pm Friday, or well, actually, within 28 days; missing votes; re-cast votes; a "no" vote can change to a "yes" vote, but a "yes" vote can't change to a "no" vote...       I mean, WTAF?  Utter nonsense. 

It's a decent point, and a the end of the day we will never know.

We had a much more a stake here than we did back then though, so it's difficult to see how it would pan out. 

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I don’t think anyone would dispute that the handling of the whole process could’ve been better. However if Dundee hadn’t messed everyone around then it would have been a pretty clear cut resolution. People seem to want to throw all the blame at the governing body who, in my opinion, were only trying to find a speedy way to solve a problem that 80% of clubs agreed with. A landslide result.

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As discussed constantly we have obviously benefited greatly from the current situation and whilst we may not ‘deserve’ the title, the situation is unique and we are certainly the most ‘deserving’ team in the league.

I also stand by the fact I believe it is fairer to write off the next 8 games than the previous 28. Hard to say but I genuinely believe this would still be my position if we swapped places with Falkirk especially given the positions of the other Leagues. I think Dundee United and Cove are more deserving of promotion than Stranraer are of being saved from relegation. Although I still hope an agreement can be reached for 2 up and no relegation. Although you run the risk of upsetting others in a play off place who miss out, after all 1st place guarantees you promotion but 2nd only gets you the same as 3rd and 4th.

To cure the boredom I did a bit of research of how leagues have looked after 28 games compared to the end of the season at each level over the last few years. The results were as follows:

Scottish Championship - The team who is top after 28 games has won the league in 14 of the previous 15 seasons. The one team to miss out? You guessed it, us, in 2010/2011.

Scottish League One - The team who is top after 28 games has won the league in 9 of the 10 previous seasons. Stranraer being the exception in 14/15

Scottish League Two - The team who is top after 28 games has won the league in 8 of the 10 seasons. The exceptions being 15/16 and 16/17.

The is from Transfermarkt they only have 10 years into for Leagues One and Two but 15 for the Championship. All goes to prove that whilst there is no guarantee, 28 games is a very good barometer for how the season will finish. 

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As discussed constantly we have obviously benefited greatly from the current situation and whilst we may not ‘deserve’ the title, the situation is unique and we are certainly the most ‘deserving’ team in the league.
I also stand by the fact I believe it is fairer to write off the next 8 games than the previous 28. Hard to say but I genuinely believe this would still be my position if we swapped places with Falkirk especially given the positions of the other Leagues. I think Dundee United and Cove are more deserving of promotion than Stranraer are of being saved from relegation. Although I still hope an agreement can be reached for 2 up and no relegation. Although you run the risk of upsetting others in a play off place who miss out, after all 1st place guarantees you promotion but 2nd only gets you the same as 3rd and 4th.
To cure the boredom I did a bit of research of how leagues have looked after 28 games compared to the end of the season at each level over the last few years. The results were as follows:
Scottish Championship - The team who is top after 28 games has won the league in 14 of the previous 15 seasons. The one team to miss out? You guessed it, us, in 2010/2011.
Scottish League One - The team who is top after 28 games has won the league in 9 of the 10 previous seasons. Stranraer being the exception in 14/15
Scottish League Two - The team who is top after 28 games has won the league in 8 of the 10 seasons. The exceptions being 15/16 and 16/17.
The is from Transfermarkt they only have 10 years into for Leagues One and Two but 15 for the Championship. All goes to prove that whilst there is no guarantee, 28 games is a very good barometer for how the season will finish. 

Someone’s clearly on Furlough!

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5 minutes ago, RRFC1989 said:


Someone’s clearly on Furlough!

😂 gotta keep busy somehow!

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27 minutes ago, R.R.FC said:

As discussed constantly we have obviously benefited greatly from the current situation and whilst we may not ‘deserve’ the title, the situation is unique and we are certainly the most ‘deserving’ team in the league.

I also stand by the fact I believe it is fairer to write off the next 8 games than the previous 28. Hard to say but I genuinely believe this would still be my position if we swapped places with Falkirk especially given the positions of the other Leagues. I think Dundee United and Cove are more deserving of promotion than Stranraer are of being saved from relegation. Although I still hope an agreement can be reached for 2 up and no relegation. Although you run the risk of upsetting others in a play off place who miss out, after all 1st place guarantees you promotion but 2nd only gets you the same as 3rd and 4th.

To cure the boredom I did a bit of research of how leagues have looked after 28 games compared to the end of the season at each level over the last few years. The results were as follows:

Scottish Championship - The team who is top after 28 games has won the league in 14 of the previous 15 seasons. The one team to miss out? You guessed it, us, in 2010/2011.

Scottish League One - The team who is top after 28 games has won the league in 9 of the 10 previous seasons. Stranraer being the exception in 14/15

Scottish League Two - The team who is top after 28 games has won the league in 8 of the 10 seasons. The exceptions being 15/16 and 16/17.

The is from Transfermarkt they only have 10 years into for Leagues One and Two but 15 for the Championship. All goes to prove that whilst there is no guarantee, 28 games is a very good barometer for how the season will finish. 

Bill Clark missed a trick with those stats.

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2 hours ago, Jilted John said:

I don’t think anyone would dispute that the handling of the whole process could’ve been better. However if Dundee hadn’t messed everyone around then it would have been a pretty clear cut resolution. People seem to want to throw all the blame at the governing body who, in my opinion, were only trying to find a speedy way to solve a problem that 80% of clubs agreed with. A landslide result.

Yes a landslide, given the clubs were backed into a corner. Talk about playing with loaded dice. Only 48 hours to consider a single proposal and cast a vote, when since then there's been a bunch of alternative options suggested, with no recourse to consider them; the unseemly rush to get this through, in mid-April, before UEFA or FIFA make any decisions about how/when next season's dates will be organised; and crucially, tying the vote into pay outs. I get that every club needs the financial bale-out, but binding the two issues together was/is seriously flawed.   Can't help but wonder if the clubs had been given an interim payout whether everyone would have made the same call.  

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So, uh. Congratulations everyone.

I think we've probably benefitted from the fact that all the other divisions had runaway leaders. Made it easier to justify, by and large, at least psychologically. The SPL hasn't been called yet but the vote gives them the power to do so - can you imagine that happening if the title race was nip and tuck? Imagine there was a point between them; that the lead had changed hands several times in the preceding weeks; that the team in second had a game in hand and were the ones who'd be awarded the title on points-per-game?

Anyway, still not convinced this is right. Don't think I'd have had any promotion or relegation. I'll expect get over it. And, in any case, I imagine the challenges the game will face over the coming year or two - like every walk of life - is going to make all the hot tempers about who was in what league look all very petty with a bit of hindsight.

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1 hour ago, R.R.FC said:

As discussed constantly we have obviously benefited greatly from the current situation and whilst we may not ‘deserve’ the title, the situation is unique and we are certainly the most ‘deserving’ team in the league.

I also stand by the fact I believe it is fairer to write off the next 8 games than the previous 28. Hard to say but I genuinely believe this would still be my position if we swapped places with Falkirk especially given the positions of the other Leagues. I think Dundee United and Cove are more deserving of promotion than Stranraer are of being saved from relegation. Although I still hope an agreement can be reached for 2 up and no relegation. Although you run the risk of upsetting others in a play off place who miss out, after all 1st place guarantees you promotion but 2nd only gets you the same as 3rd and 4th.

To cure the boredom I did a bit of research of how leagues have looked after 28 games compared to the end of the season at each level over the last few years. The results were as follows:

Scottish Championship - The team who is top after 28 games has won the league in 14 of the previous 15 seasons. The one team to miss out? You guessed it, us, in 2010/2011.

Scottish League One - The team who is top after 28 games has won the league in 9 of the 10 previous seasons. Stranraer being the exception in 14/15

Scottish League Two - The team who is top after 28 games has won the league in 8 of the 10 seasons. The exceptions being 15/16 and 16/17.

The is from Transfermarkt they only have 10 years into for Leagues One and Two but 15 for the Championship. All goes to prove that whilst there is no guarantee, 28 games is a very good barometer for how the season will finish. 

Interesting stats.  However, it would be interesting to know out of the 14/15, 9/10 and 8/10 scenarios, how many league leaders who were top after those 28 games were only a single point ahead at that stage...   When was the title last snatched from a league leader to a second-placed team on the final day? (excluding obvious examples at SPL level). 

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15 minutes ago, Dennistoun Bairn said:

Yes a landslide, given the clubs were backed into a corner. Talk about playing with loaded dice. Only 48 hours to consider a single proposal and cast a vote, when since then there's been a bunch of alternative options suggested, with no recourse to consider them; the unseemly rush to get this through, in mid-April, before UEFA or FIFA make any decisions about how/when next season's dates will be organised; and crucially, tying the vote into pay outs. I get that every club needs the financial bale-out, but binding the two issues together was/is seriously flawed.   Can't help but wonder if the clubs had been given an interim payout whether everyone would have made the same call.  

They had 28 days

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Just now, Rovers_Lad said:

They had 28 days

Really. Not when the SPFL announced they wanted every club's response by 5pm Friday.  Looks a lot like manipulation now. Why didn't Doncaster simply come out and state quite clearly that there was a 28 day period?       

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Really. Not when the SPFL announced they wanted every club's response by 5pm Friday.  Looks a lot like manipulation now. Why didn't Doncaster simply come out and state quite clearly that there was a 28 day period?       

Who says the SPFL didn’t “quite clearly state that there was a 28 day period” when they addressed each club?

They didn’t find out about the vote through the same means that we did. They would have all found out beforehand.

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5 minutes ago, Dennistoun Bairn said:

Really. Not when the SPFL announced they wanted every club's response by 5pm Friday.  Looks a lot like manipulation now. Why didn't Doncaster simply come out and state quite clearly that there was a 28 day period?       

 

I,m guessing with it being a members association (clubs)that the clubs would have a copy or access to the rules and regulations

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Was thinking yesterday about the various title- and promotion-clinchers in my time following Raith:

1993 - lovely sunny day, an easy 2-0 over Dumbarton at Starks with a goal in each half from Brewster, and iirc a retaken and then missed penalty from Dalziel (which also left Dumbarton with ten men for the full second half). That we would get the win to seal promotion was never in doubt; to secure the title that day too needed a result elsewhere, but a big shout from behind the goal in the second half presaged good news. And I think we'd kicked off late so knew it was in the bag before full-time. They tried to clear the pitch invasion to allow the players to come back out, but it soon became clear that wasn't going to happen, the presentation took place in the directors box instead, and eventually even the railway-standers like me and my dad toddled apologetically onto the pitch to join the party.

1995 - Final game was away to Hamilton, very tense (from the radio, anyway) 0-0 draw which got us the point we needed. I can't remember now why I wasn't at that game, had something else on. Some fine memories from that season though - obviously the cup win, but at that stage of the season we actually looked to be out of the league race. Think it was a Sinclair last minute winner against someone (Airdrie again?) around Christmas time that sparked a ten game winning run that took us back into contention. There was a 2-0 win at Dens late in the season which was one of my favourite games, when I started to believe we'd do it.

2003 - very anticlimatic, we'd been clear at the top but misfired the first couple of chances to seal it, eventually stumbling over the line with a 1-0 home win over Berwick. Mostly all I remember about that game was the old bloke in front of me in the main stand who spent the game shouting abuse at the number 9 in the mistaken belief it was Ryan Blackadder, and bemoaning that we weren't playing Paul McManus instead, who was apparently his mate and who we'd not treated right since we'd signed him and who was pissed off but was a hundred times the player Ryan Blackadder was. The number 9 - who to be fair did indeed have a poor game - was Paul McManus. With about ten minutes to go he was subbed off, with his name as the departing player announced very clearly over the tannoy, and then right after that Andy Smith scored the goal that won the league, and the old bloke shut up. I'd been to plenty of games that season but the player who celebrated most enthusiastically on the pitch afterwards, doing pitch slides to the south stand and everything, was someone I didn't even recognise. Turned out to be some Spanish chap who'd played about once.

2009 - another lovely sunny day, against Queen's Park at Hampden this time. We weren't expecting to do it that day, it had been so tight between us and Ayr all season that we were expecting it to go to the final game the following week. But Weir's first-minute goal - his last for three years or more - and the second-half news of a 16 year old Greig Spence's equaliser for Alloa at Ayr spared us another week's worth of nailbiting. There was some confusion when there was a second big roar went round and I thought Alloa must have scored again; turned out not but the results as they stood were good enough. Only other thing I remember about that game was Queen's Park brought on a teenage substitute for his debut, who was promptly sent off - for a kick actually committed by one of his teammates. That would've been a better story if the poor lad had never played another senior game again - but it was actually Paul McGinn.

2020 - clicking on the BBC sports page to find Dundee had finally decided which way to shoot their load. Happy fucking days. Thinking back to those other memories makes me feel slightly sorry for our younger supporters for whom this rather unsatisfactory conclusion is the first such success. Such as it is.

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All teams knew it was 28 days they were asked if they could to return it within 5 days, which most did, but left the door open for the utter shambles we then witnessed.     

Edited by Wildrover

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47 minutes ago, Dennistoun Bairn said:

Interesting stats.  However, it would be interesting to know out of the 14/15, 9/10 and 8/10 scenarios, how many league leaders who were top after those 28 games were only a single point ahead at that stage...   When was the title last snatched from a league leader to a second-placed team on the final day? (excluding obvious examples at SPL level). 

Ayr overhauling us 2 seasons ago when we drew 0 0 at home to Alloa on final weekend. Ayr looked home and hosed but wobbled on the second and third last games to let us pinch the lead.

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54 minutes ago, Yoss said:

I'd been to plenty of games that season but the player who celebrated most enthusiastically on the pitch afterwards, doing pitch slides to the south stand and everything, was someone I didn't even recognise. Turned out to be some Spanish chap who'd played about once.

He’s the one going taps aff, in all the photos, wearing a Spanish flag like a cape. Had a vague memory that that was his first game for the Rovers and he was maybe a right back? Checked the bible (Always Next Season) and I think he must be Valdez. That was indeed his first appearance for the Rovers but it looks as though he was an unused sub. He played, in midfield, a couple of days later in the Fife Cup and then started the final game of the season away to Dumbarton. Yet there he is, front and centre of every photo 😂

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