The New Raith Rovers Thread

[Sheevedawg]

Always thought Smith looks a bit like Henry Rollins

Aye, like a diluted, duller and sadder version.

[Beachbum]

12 minutes ago, SuperHans said:

 

This season we've been making a very conscious effort to play the ball on the deck much more. If anything I think the avoidance of playing it long has actually had a negative affect on how we play. Teams are pressing us a lot more and throughout the second half in particular the defence seems to fall deeper and deeper. The lack of a 'target man' is the issue for that style but I'd also say our inability to win the second ball in the middle of the park and capitalise was the issue last season.

Remember that this 'long ball' game that we hated so much did win us 22 games last season so it can't have been that unsuccessful. It didn't win us the league right enough but sometimes a more direct approach is needed rather than passing it about for 90 mins hoping we break a line. Forcing the issue won us plenty of games that mattered towards the end of the season e.g. Albion Rovers (2-0) at home and East Fife also at home (2-0). Both tight games as I recall until late goals from persistent long balls forward that allowed us to regain possession in the final third and eventually break the defence down.

Now we know why we've been a long ball team for all those years.

[Beastie Russell]

14 minutes ago, CALDERON said:

Long ball football concedes any edge that full time football gives us and is lapped up by plenty centre backs in this league. 

Every bad result we have had under Smith has seen brutal football.  

I actually enjoyed how Ayr and Alloa played against us

[SuperHans]

Long ball football concedes any edge that full time football gives us and is lapped up by plenty centre backs in this league. 
Every bad result we have had under Smith has seen brutal football.  

What about all the good results? In the league we won 22, lost 5 and drew 9 so I'm going to say that every defeat was obviously a bad result and barring the draw at home to Ayr and opening game of against Alloa then I make that 12 'bad results' and 22 good results.

Stating that every bad result has seen brutal football is stating the obvious a little bit don't you think?

As for conceding any edge we have as full time, that's just a load of shite. I'll admit that at times, we should have been better than the style of play that we resorted to. But when 10 men are standing behind the ball playing negative tactics, the relentlessness of continued long balls towards the defence with faster and fitter players paid off a lot more than you seem to think.

Although it was a poor performance at the end, I'll revert to the horrible 2-2 draw away to Airdrie on a cold Sunday afternoon. Persistent bombardment and pressure was the difference between losing and not losing that game. The same could be said for the above mentioned draw away to Alloa. However, the other draws to Arbroath, Forfar and Albion Rovers all came from being in front which there's no excuses for.

To summaries; 22 good results versus 12 bad isn't a bad return and just one more good result would have had us Champions. It's not pretty but more times than not, it got the job done.

[CALDERON]

So we are saying that playing awful long ball football didn't get us promoted? Great, let's do it again. 

[Scottydog]

Another groin injury too, what type of surface did they say caused lots of them again?

[Stevo Fife]

[SuperHans]

So we are saying that playing awful long ball football didn't get us promoted? Great, let's do it again. 

There were a lot more factors to us not getting promoted than the style in which we played. I'll refer you back to Barry Smiths win record as our manager. Ayr won 1 more game than us and that was the difference. I'm not a Barry Smith fan myself but I think there's a lot more to it than peoples misconception of how ineffective our style of play actually was last season.

Circumstances, players under performing, injuries and luck are all contributing factors rather than the simple "long ball dusny wurk Barreh!" theory.

[Michael W]

We didn't win the league mainly due to a period of uncharacteristically poor defending that saw us haemorrhage an 8 point lead and look like we'd thrown it away, and then because we had no idea how to break down Alloa when circumstances gave us a shot at redemption. 

Style was a massive part of it - we had strikers who were prolific at this level only the season before, and got mediocrity out of them. The blame for that lies purely with Smith, who had little idea how to get the best out of his squad. 

Edit: If Spence and Buchanan had managed even an extra 8-10 goals between them, I'm confident we'd have won the league.  Look at the goals Ayr scored compared with what we mustered, and consider where the deficiencies in the side were that meant we got nowhere near it . 

Edited August 23, 2018 by Michael W

[Rovers1992/1993]

Circumstances, players under performing, injuries and luck are all contributing factors rather than the simple "long ball dusny wurk Barreh!" theory.

Players were underperforming as they didn’t fit into the style he had us playing

He can’t even use injuries as an excuse as he has already admitted to playing players who are carrying knocks. He’s to blame again.

Luck doesn’t win you the league.


Whenever We played Ayr, they were slick in their passing. Passing it out from the back. They made us look like a pub team at times.

Alloa did likewise in the playoffs against us. Neither played long ball against us. They are now playing in the league above. Whilst we are languishing down here and I’m predicting we’ll be here for a few more years yet.

[Scary Bear]

We’re here for a long time, not a good time.

[Scary Bear]

Barry Smith is resilient. He’s proved that with us and Dundee. All we can do is cross our fingers and hope he can get the team playing winning football again.

If he can replicate last season’s home form then we’ll have a good chance of winning the league. If he can do that, he’ll have done well, given this squad of players doesn’t look as strong as last season’s squad. Hopefully once Vaughan is back we’ll look a bit better.

[McGuigan1978]

Barry Smith is resilient. He’s proved that with us and Dundee. All we can do is cross our fingers and hope he can get the team playing winning football again.

If he can replicate last season’s home form then we’ll have a good chance of winning the league. If he can do that, he’ll have done well, given this squad of players doesn’t look as strong as last season’s squad. Hopefully once Vaughan is back we’ll look a bit better.

We only dropped four points at home last season, and we’ve dropped two already this term, so I can’t see that happening. What will win us the league, is a complete turnaround in our away form.

Unfortunately, from our five league goals this season, three have come from the penalty spot, and one was presented to us by Jamie Hamill falling over.

Aside from that, we’ve barely mustered a shot at goal, which doesn’t bode too well.

[Scary Bear]

We only dropped four points at home last season, and we’ve dropped two already this term, so I can’t see that happening. What will win us the league, is a complete turnaround in our away form.

Unfortunately, from our five league goals this season, three have come from the penalty spot, and one was presented to us by Jamie Hamill falling over.

Aside from that, we’ve barely mustered a shot at goal, which doesn’t bode too well.

I don’t think we will win the league. It wouldn’t surprise me if we struggle this season. If the injuries clear up we should be in the top half of the league. Can’t wait for the latest play-off defeat.

[SuperHans]

Players were underperforming as they didn’t fit into the style he had us playing

He can’t even use injuries as an excuse as he has already admitted to playing players who are carrying knocks. He’s to blame again.

Luck doesn’t win you the league.


Whenever We played Ayr, they were slick in their passing. Passing it out from the back. They made us look like a pub team at times.

Alloa did likewise in the playoffs against us. Neither played long ball against us. They are now playing in the league above. Whilst we are languishing down here and I’m predicting we’ll be here for a few more years yet.

Firstly, he was forced into playing players who were carrying injuries so that he could get his strongest team on the park. I recall McKeown having an extremely poor season under Grant Murray but being one of our better players under McKinnon. He put it down to the fact that he played a large part of his first season with us carrying an injury but there was no cover for him to sit out.

Secondly, luck 100% plays a huge part in any club winning the league. Was it poor tactics from Barry Smith that made Vaughan (our top goal scorers) hit the post in the last 30 seconds of the last game of the season? Was it poor management that led to Moore skying his penalty for Ayr against Alloa which took the league decider to the last game?

Thirdly, yes Ayr did put play us on several occasions last season. But they also dropped plenty of points in other games. Defeats against Stranrear and Forfar at home as well as losing to Alloa in the above mentioned game. A season is played over 36 games not just a handful against league rivals.

Fourthly, just because one team plays one way and does well, doesn't mean it's the same spread across the board. Livingston are in the Premier League now through a long ball and direct approach, the Motherwell 'hatchet men' made it to 2 cup finals last season with their direct and long ball strategy. I'll agree that last season at times was like watching someone running into a brick wall over and over again. But Smiths winning record speaks for itself. We won games and the fact that we didn't win enough to gain promotion comes down to a lot more than just the style of play.

For the record, I hope we do see a change in style and tempo with faster and slicker moving football. But I won't be moaning about the more direct approach, as I mentioned before, East Fife had a lot more possession than us and pressed us at home. Perhaps the longer ball approach with pace on the flanks would have elevated a lot of that pressure and pushed us further up the pitch.

[SanStarko]

Edit: If Spence and Buchanan had managed even an extra 8-10 goals between them, I'm confident we'd have won the league.  Look at the goals Ayr scored compared with what we mustered, and consider where the deficiencies in the side were that meant we got nowhere near it . 

To be fair, Spence probably could have managed those extra 8 goals if he hadn’t been dropped as soon as he found some form.

Which is the thing that concerns me about Smiths management. He signed Spence and Buchanan, seemingly only because they had been the top scorers the season before. He then played a style of football that didn’t suit either player. When one of them finally got a bit form and started scoring goals despite playing in a system that didn’t suit him, he was dropped and barely featured for the rest of the season.

[Broken Algorithms]

I'm of the view if we had Wright last season, we'd have won the league. He's looked far superior to Lennox and Smith so far.

[++Ammo - Airdrie++]

There is no danger a side with as few options as we do is getting out of this league. I hope there is at least some money available to strengthen in January because we'll need it if we're anywhere near the top.

Why not use next seasons season ticket money in January to bolster the squad??

[Ro Sham Bo]

38 minutes ago, ++Ammo - Airdrie++ said:

23 hours ago, Ro Sham Bo said:

There is no danger a side with as few options as we do is getting out of this league. I hope there is at least some money available to strengthen in January because we'll need it if we're anywhere near the top.

Why not use next seasons season ticket money in January to bolster the squad??

Good point. I look forward to super early early bird season tickets being released for sale in time for Christmas.

[lgb61]

Smiths' inability to play anything but 4-4-2 makes us so easy to play against. Same formation week in week out with an occasional change in personnel which makes no difference to our style of play. We do not have the best players in this league therefore constantly banging out the same formation is ridiculous, if our players were head and shoulders above everyone else then it would make sense but, as it is, Smith really has to start thinking outside of his very small box.

We have the players to go 3 at the back  so why the hell does he not try that, at home at least? With 5 in the middle we certainly have the guys to move the ball around quickly and Watson could easily play right wing, his delivery is improving with every game.

I think a better manager would look at this squad and immediately change the way we play, BS doesn't have that in his locker. And I don't buy that this is his team this season, he couldn't change it last season and I can't see him changing it this season either, in fact I don't think we will do as well as last season unless he changes his thinking.

If Sim can find the money, I can see the Stranraer game in October being his last