The New Raith Rovers Thread

[Michael W]

Totally agree. It's whether fans would accept the inevitability of what this would mean on the pitch. I suspect some wouldn't.

I just want us to still have a club.

I would like to see us revert to the model which was in place during our first season back up - a mixture of full-time and part-time. With the right part-timers, it isn't necessarily too much of a handicap.

[CALDERON]

I usually stick up for the club when people complain about the entrance fee, but its getting hard to now. 3 of our last 4 home games have been awful to watch, its hard to justify spending £17 quid on that.

I fucking love John Mcglynn, but he has 3 major flaws - the inabilty to drop his favoured players when they are playing shite, a tendancy to squeeze his favoured players into the starting line-up and the inability to change a game through tactics. The game at East end park last season summed it up for me, with Simmons being played out Left Mid when the game was custom made for Mark Ferry. I heard Jim Traynor on Sportsound last week question how on earth Mcglynn hasnt won himself a bigger job yet, these may indicate why.

Dont get me wrong, Mcglynn has turned this club around and I am delighted with him as manager, we just need to shake things up every now and then - and it is incredibly frustrating sitting knowing how the game will turn out.

[roverthemoon]

I just want us to still have a club.

I would like to see us revert to the model which was in place during our first season back up - a mixture of full-time and part-time. With the right part-timers, it isn't necessarily too much of a handicap.

A season we only broke even because of the cup run money. So to break even now (without 2 Pars games or a cup run) we'd need a much cheaper squad than we had then. Probably even far cheaper than we have now even. That's what would bring the handicap not the mix of part/full timers.

[Scary Bear]

Totally agree. It's whether fans would accept the inevitability of what this would mean on the pitch. I suspect some wouldn't.

What would this mean on the pitch? I honestly can't be believe it would be much worse viewing than what's served up at Starks at the moment.

It used to be the norm for 1st Division teams to be part-time. As long as we drop the admission price to acknowledge that we're a part-time side, I would be happy with a squad of part-timers.

[roverthemoon]

What would this mean on the pitch? I honestly can't be believe it would be much worse viewing than what's served up at Starks at the moment.

It used to be the norm for 1st Division teams to be part-time. As long as we drop the admission price to acknowledge that we're a part-time side, I would be happy with a squad of part-timers.

The difference in entertainment value would probably not be affected in the same way I don't think the first division is automatically more entertaining than the second or third.

But lets not delude ourselves if we had a team of players we could afford (especially if we dropped the prices) whether they were part-time, full-time or a mix would be academic. They would be of significantly less ability of what we've got at the moment and not even McGlynn could stop us finishing 10th. Look at what happened to Clyde the minute they started only paying players what they could afford. They fell to the 3rd.

But to have a club its going to have to happen at some point either through choice or forced on us. What we're paying and have been paying for the last 3 years is unsustainable on current income.

[Rovers_Lad]

A season we only broke even because of the cup run money.

and if we hadn`t had the cup run and the unbudgeted money from it the doors would be shut at starks park`d by now.We`ve had years and years of financial mismanagement and learned f**k all from it. Mind you thats to be expected when you consider we still have three directors on the board,a board who stood back and allowed the club to be taken over by Smith/Short/McGowan and in turn allowed our ground our only asset to be sold off .

[geo1234]

Love the club but the people that will kill it off are the BOD. They keep touching the burning hob they never learn so many great ideas on this forum to raise funds and the profile of the club yet why do they never come up with anything or put into the club.

Sorry for the rant I know the BOD have worked hard but they have put there energy into the club wrongly in my honest opinion I respect some people will not agree but I'm not sure they know how to work a calculator

[P.C]

Love the club but the people that will kill it off are the BOD. They keep touching the burning hob they never learn so many great ideas on this forum to raise funds and the profile of the club yet why do they never come up with anything or put into the club.

Sorry for the rant I know the BOD have worked hard but they have put there energy into the club wrongly in my honest opinion I respect some people will not agree but I'm not sure they know how to work a calculator

Know there is quite a few good ideas being bounced about just now with the new fundraising group tho these ideas will only bring in enough money with the club/player's backing. That has always been an issue with any previous fundraising attempts tho things seem positive so far (tho come back to me after Fifa tourny )

[graeme_p]

1) The full time part time debate is a bit of a financial red herring. Having a full time squad means you don't have to pay them travelling expenses to players or pay for out of hours training facilities. Overall the net cost is about the same usually.

2) We have the squad the manager wanted. We have a squad most of the fans were happy with before the season started. What we do not have is that squad performing anything like what it should do. Lets keep in mind we also have a 5 man backroom staff. No other club in the 1st division has this overhead. Between the 5 of them we seem to be unable to motivate the players.

3) The problem may well be the tactics. teams know how to play us at home. They know how to play us at home because we never change how we play at home. Almost everyone that watches us knows that the way we set the team up means that we struggle to break down teams. This may be radical but maybe the manager should change the tactics!

4) We never give young players a chance. We can see the midfield is slow to support and pretty immobile most weeks. Drop the dead wood and bring in the youngsters. At least their pace and enthusiasm would provide lift. Reece has proved that the youngsters can make an impact. He is better than Wilson was last season. I have no doubt at all though if Wilson had accepted a new contract Reece would never have got a chance. I fear some of our other players are in the same boat because McGlynn won't drop his midfield favourites.

[Wee Sandy]

I usually stick up for the club when people complain about the entrance fee, but its getting hard to now. 3 of our last 4 home games have been awful to watch, its hard to justify spending £17 quid on that.

I fucking love John Mcglynn, but he has 3 major flaws - the inabilty to drop his favoured players when they are playing shite, a tendancy to squeeze his favoured players into the starting line-up and the inability to change a game through tactics. The game at East end park last season summed it up for me, with Simmons being played out Left Mid when the game was custom made for Mark Ferry. I heard Jim Traynor on Sportsound last week question how on earth Mcglynn hasnt won himself a bigger job yet, these may indicate why.

Dont get me wrong, Mcglynn has turned this club around and I am delighted with him as manager, we just need to shake things up every now and then - and it is incredibly frustrating sitting knowing how the game will turn out.

Totally agree. This ^^^^^ encompasses the nub of the situation, and a main part of the greater problems.

Teams are wise to us (tactically-- or lack of), as happened in the latter part of last season and is proving to be the same again this season.

John......dae somethin' min!!!

Edited October 25, 2011 by Wee Sandy

[Paco]

3) The problem may well be the tactics. teams know how to play us at home. They know how to play us at home because we never change how we play at home. Almost everyone that watches us knows that the way we set the team up means that we struggle to break down teams. This may be radical but maybe the manager should change the tactics!

Thoroughly agree with this. We've played the same way at home for five years. Rigid 4-4-2, little width, full-backs don't get forward much, long ball to the biggest striker, if things aren't going well push Davidson forward to get in the way. It worked last year because the players put absolutely everything they had into every game. And Tade was above this level, as much as some fans don't like to see it. It won't work this year without the motivation of the SPL, and no Tade to force mistakes. We had a bit more quality in midfield last season too.

We've always been better away from home under McGlynn, with the exception of the title winning year where we played 4-3-3 for a long spell. And it isn't down to the fans.

4) We never give young players a chance. We can see the midfield is slow to support and pretty immobile most weeks. Drop the dead wood and bring in the youngsters. At least their pace and enthusiasm would provide lift. Reece has proved that the youngsters can make an impact. He is better than Wilson was last season. I have no doubt at all though if Wilson had accepted a new contract Reece would never have got a chance. I fear some of our other players are in the same boat because McGlynn won't drop his midfield favourites.

Disagree there though. Reece has been excellent so far, and I'm delighted he's in the side every week. But he doesn't have the ability of Wilson to get into the final third, to skip by a man or play a good cross into the box. Admittedly Wilson was indeed rotten for the last couple of months of last season, but he still chipped in with a good few assists throughout, and was always an attacking threat. I'm sure it'll come for Reece though, he's a great wee player. Do agree with your points re. the midfield. I keep reading Davidson wasn't fit on Saturday as some kind of excuse for his rotten performance. Why was he playing then? We had Thomson and Callachan sat on the bench. Let Davidson get fit (if he is injured - haven't actually saw that anywhere other than forums) and play players who can actually put in a shift rather than strolling around doing nothing for 85 minutes.

I feel sorry for the board this season, they're in pretty much an impossible situation. They've drastically cut the budget, the team are nowhere near as competitive as a result, and we're still losing money. The last two seasons though? Bad, bad financial management. For me there should be no shying away from that. Over the last two seasons we brought in a good few hundred thousand from a Cup run, and we had an extra five hundred punters through the gates every single week. There's only one reason we still lost money, and it isn;t the Kirkcaldy public, or Neil Lennon that's to blame.

Edited October 25, 2011 by Paco

[lzreid]

There's a lot of talk about tactics here but, in defence of the manager, I'll say a few things.

Tactics can only really be modified if you have the players to do so. Focussing more on the passing game would be wonderful but most people* agree that our best passer of the ball in the midfield area is out of form. Short of Davo turning into Pirlo, Williamson finding an extra 2 yards of pace or Hamill rolling out the tricks and flicks, build up play will be slow and prone to breaking down more often than not. Our success relies on it working often enough,

The real problem is around the personnel available. We seriously miss Tadé and Wilson's pace in atrtack and defence. As good as Donaldson has been - and he's been fantastic at times - he lacks the pace to cover his colleagues that was such a huge part of Wilson's game. Brian Graham is technically superior to Tadé by some distance but he lacks the pace and physicality that was such a huge part of our success in the last couple of years.

None of this is easy to fix without money and we're gonna have to accept that most of the season will be a slog towards safety with a good few bad days at the office. Will that cost us fans? Probably, but I have no idea what to do about that.

[lzreid]

Thoroughly agree with this. We've played the same way at home for five years. Rigid 4-4-2, little width, full-backs don't get forward much, long ball to the biggest striker, if things aren't going well push Davidson forward to get in the way. It worked last year because the players put absolutely everything they had into every game. And Tade was above this level, as much as some fans don't like to see it. It won't work this year without the motivation of the SPL, and no Tade to force mistakes. We had a bit more quality in midfield last season too.

It is a rigid 4-4-2 undoubtedly and with none of the wide players being particularly quick it is also quite limiting. That said, what do we move to? Do we take a man out of the midfield and go back to a 4-3-3 when our 4 man midfield is already struggling? 4-5-1 would require sacrificing a striker when we're not exactly famous for socring loads with two up top.

We need pace. Even shite, Derek Carcaryesque talent would help if he had pace. It ain't coming though.

[Rovers_Lad]

Thoroughly agree with this. We've played the same way at home for five years. Rigid 4-4-2, little width, full-backs don't get forward much, long ball to the biggest striker, if things aren't going well push Davidson forward to get in the way. It worked last year because the players put absolutely everything they had into every game. And Tade was above this level, as much as some fans don't like to see it.

If thats the case discounting the loss of Tade the only other reasons its not working is the players are not putting absolutely everything they have into every game this season.

It won't work this year without the motivation of the SPL, and no Tade to force mistakes. We had a bit more quality in midfield last season too.

Why is there no motivation of the SPL.?Were only 10 games into the season .Not sure on us having a bit more quality in midfiels last season .We replaced a lord lucanesque player in Simmons with a lord lucanesque player in Hamill.

Disagree there though. Reece has been excellent so far, and I'm delighted he's in the side every week. But he doesn't have the ability of Wilson to get into the final third, to skip by a man or play a good cross into the box. Admittedly Wilson was indeed rotten for the last couple of months of last season, but he still chipped in with a good few assists throughout, and was always an attacking threat. I'm sure it'll come for Reece though, he's a great wee player.

Agree with you on all aspects of Reece .Wilson was in the main fairly poor for most of the season but not just two months but still had the ability to support the midfiels and front men

Do agree with your points re. the midfield. I keep reading Davidson wasn't fit on Saturday as some kind of excuse for his rotten performance. Why was he playing then? We had Thomson and Callachan sat on the bench. Let Davidson get fit (if he is injured - haven't actually saw that anywhere other than forums) and play players who can actually put in a shift rather than strolling around doing nothing for 85 minutes.

Again agree .This playing a player who isn`t fit or carrying an injury gets on my tits bit it shows McGlynn has no faith in the replacements.

I feel sorry for the board this season, they're in pretty much an impossible situation. They've drastically cut the budget, the team are nowhere near as competitive as a result, and we're still losing money. The last two seasons though? Bad, bad financial management. For me there should be no shying away from that. Over the last two seasons we brought in a good few hundred thousand from a Cup run, and we had an extra five hundred punters through the gates every single week. There's only one reason we still lost money, and it isn;t the Kirkcaldy public, or Neil Lennon that's to blame.

You`ll not be surprised to hear I`ve little sympathy with the board as most of our problems are of their doing apart from the players as they had the audacity to win 6 more games last season to the previous resulting in the board have to pay more win bonuses .I think we need to get away from the excuse of budget cuts,reduced squad etc(see Dundee last season).We`ve had a few good /decent performances this season,were just not consistent enough at the mo. Our strongest 11 are not far off being on par with our strongest 11 last season so there no reason for them being less competitive.

One thing I would be interested to know is what we do at training(anyone been along to watch?).Do they practice set peices?Our thrown ins,corner kicks are fookin awful

[Paco]

It is a rigid 4-4-2 undoubtedly and with none of the wide players being particularly quick it is also quite limiting. That said, what do we move to? Do we take a man out of the midfield and go back to a 4-3-3 when our 4 man midfield is already struggling? 4-5-1 would require sacrificing a striker when we're not exactly famous for socring loads with two up top.

We need pace. Even shite, Derek Carcaryesque talent would help if he had pace. It ain't coming though.

Pace would be exceptionally helpful, yes, I think we all identified in pre-season we're too slow - too late now though. However even within a 4-4-2 there are options you can use to mix things up. Diamond in the midfield, for instance. Concentrate attacks down one wing, thus narrowing one side in and allowing space for an overlapping full-back. The better use of full-backs in general, actually, since about January last year it's been appalling. Push the strikers further up ie tell Baird to play on the shoulder and let Graham do the donkey work, or vice versa, rather than dropping them into areas where midfielders should be. Play a midfielder off the strikers. Ask one of the strikers to drop off. 3-5-2 is an option. Or even more wildly we could change things mid-match. There's some ideas right there.

Just something, ANYTHING. We've played six home league matches and been appalling in three, good in two, average in one. Seven points from eighteen available. Four goals scored. Four. Fucking four. All the while we've been playing much better away from home. We shouldn't just shrug, say shit happens and accept that's the way it is. Do something about it. Try things out.

My last couple of posts read like I'm criticising the manager - I'm not particularly. He's been superb etc. But I don't see why we don't try things a little different at home. Clearly it's not working this time round - this is our third season in the league, we've had better sides, and teams know how we play. Mix it up a bit. The tried and tested ain't working.

[lzreid]

Pace would be exceptionally helpful, yes, I think we all identified in pre-season we're too slow - too late now though. However even within a 4-4-2 there are options you can use to mix things up. Diamond in the midfield, for instance. Concentrate attacks down one wing, thus narrowing one side in and allowing space for an overlapping full-back. The better use of full-backs in general, actually, since about January last year it's been appalling. Push the strikers further up ie tell Baird to play on the shoulder and let Graham do the donkey work, or vice versa, rather than dropping them into areas where midfielders should be. Play a midfielder off the strikers. Ask one of the strikers to drop off. 3-5-2 is an option. Or even more wildly we could change things mid-match. There's some ideas right there.

Just something, ANYTHING. We've played six home league matches and been appalling in three, good in two, average in one. Seven points from eighteen available. Four goals scored. Four. Fucking four. All the while we've been playing much better away from home. We shouldn't just shrug, say shit happens and accept that's the way it is. Do something about it. Try things out.

My last couple of posts read like I'm criticising the manager - I'm not particularly. He's been superb etc. But I don't see why we don't try things a little different at home. Clearly it's not working this time round - this is our third season in the league, we've had better sides, and teams know how we play. Mix it up a bit. The tried and tested ain't working.

I don't think anyone is just shrugging their shoulders and you have a few decent thoughts in there. My own persoal preference would be that we stop playing unfit players, Davo was unfit on Saturday and there's no escaping that. His selection was clearly a poor choice as soon as he got booked and there's no reason Thomson shouldn't play.

I'd also play Baird a little deeper - he's been playing off the shoulder the last few matches actually and he's been offside so often it's a primary reason why our attacks have been breaking down. Less so on Saturday but against Partick it was chronic.

[Big Berk]

There's a lot of talk about tactics here but, in defence of the manager, I'll say a few things.

Tactics can only really be modified if you have the players to do so. Focussing more on the passing game would be wonderful but most people* agree that our best passer of the ball in the midfield area is out of form. Short of Davo turning into Pirlo, Williamson finding an extra 2 yards of pace or Hamill rolling out the tricks and flicks, build up play will be slow and prone to breaking down more often than not. Our success relies on it working often enough,

The real problem is around the personnel available. We seriously miss Tadé and Wilson's pace in atrtack and defence...

Yes I agree we miss Tade and possibly Wilson, but you've missed Calderon's point that McGlynn would prefer to squeeze his favourite players into the team out of position rather than give the natural player a game, which I totally agree with, and his reluctance to change the team during a match tahts going wrong. We've seen it so often. Its fine saying we dont have the squad now, but IMO McGlynn often doesnt make the best use of the players he has.

[lzreid]

Yes I agree we miss Tade and possibly Wilson, but you've missed Calderon's point that McGlynn would prefer to squeeze his favourite players into the team out of position rather than give the natural player a game, which I totally agree with, and his reluctance to change the team during a match tahts going wrong. We've seen it so often. Its fine saying we dont have the squad now, but IMO McGlynn often doesnt make the best use of the players he has.

He does have a blind spot regarding certain players as all managers do and it has led him into making some bizarre choices. Davidson on Saturday being the most recent example of many.

That said, the players he's been accused of having a blind spot for - Davidson, Walker and Simmons in particular - are players I tend to agree should play if fit. As such I tend not to think it's as big an issue as the Tadé / Wilson bit.

Edit - prime example actually; people have been questioning why Walker hasn't been dropped or rested recently. both here and at the games. Much like the manager, I'm satisfied with the performances from Walker. He is a little out of form certainly but not massively so in my opinion.

Edited October 25, 2011 by lzreid

[Big Berk]

No doubt McGlynn know more about the players than we do. But its hard for us to fathom how some players hardly got a game, even when theyve been playing much better than the 'regulars' - Ferry was a classic case as has been mentioned, and Thomson more recently. Blind spot is a good description tho. Its frustrating watching some terrible performances from some players while others sit on the bench until five minutes to go when its too late.

[P.C]

No doubt McGlynn know more about the players than we do. But its hard for us to fathom how some players hardly got a game, even when theyve been playing much better than the 'regulars' - Ferry was a classic case as has been mentioned, and Thomson more recently. Blind spot is a good description tho. Its frustrating watching some terrible performances from some players while others sit on the bench until five minutes to go when its too late.

Exactly. Williamson was a prime example previously when regardless of performances he would always start

Thomson has shown he can be a useful player for us, maybe a bit of competition would be handy. Last season McGurn was dropped for a couple of bad gaffs but some players are putting in regular bad performances, Dougie Hill was a fine example