The New Raith Rovers Thread

[Ludo*1]

20 minutes ago, RaithRovers1883 said:

I've just listened to Murray's post-match interview. Interestingly, about half way through he says he suspects he knows why the injuries have been so bad and persistent throughout the season, but wants to keep that to himself for now. What on earth could he mean by that?

Few players clocked out and signing PCA with other clubs?

[grumswall]

Scottish cup quarter final, technically 3rd challenge Cup final in a row for the club, potentially 7th place and safe with weeks to spare. All on a lesser budget than his predecessor. Yes he's not been perfect and has room for improvement but some people seriously need to lower their expectations as fans of raith rovers. Murray has my full backing. I hope the board give him the backing he needs for next season. 

[Ro Sham Bo]

6 hours ago, RaithRovers1883 said:

I've just listened to Murray's post-match interview. Interestingly, about half way through he says he suspects he knows why the injuries have been so bad and persistent throughout the season, but wants to keep that to himself for now. What on earth could he mean by that?

It's either a knock on effect from last season, substandard medical care at our end, or the pitch...

[Jilted John]

That’s a really strange comment for Murray to make. I’d imagine a lot of teams at our level, even ones with grass pitches,  will train on astro, particularly during the winter so I’m not too sure if it’ll be that. Airdrie also had a plastic pitch so it’s not something new to Murray.

I noticed that when Mcgylnn joined Falkirk, he didn’t take the fitness/sport science guys with him. I wonder if he’s not happy with what they have been doing?

[renton]

2 minutes ago, Jilted John said:

That’s a really strange comment for Murray to make. I’d imagine a lot of teams at our level, even ones with grass pitches,  will train on astro, particularly during the winter so I’m not too sure if it’ll be that. Airdrie also had a plastic pitch so it’s not something new to Murray.

I noticed that when Mcgylnn joined Falkirk, he didn’t take the fitness/sport science guys with him. I wonder if he’s not happy with what they have been doing?

Aye, that was my takeaway from that comment.

[Ro Sham Bo]

I blame the warm ups we do as the players come out onto the pitch, personally. 

[Michael W]

I still think McGlynn himself has a lot to do with it, with poor management of players' condition and/or players being made to take painkilling injections etc and playing when they probably shouldn't have. This could of course have come from the backroom and McGlynn just went along with it, though he does strike me as the 'get on with it and stop moaning' type. 

[SanStarko]

1 hour ago, Michael W said:

I still think McGlynn himself has a lot to do with it, with poor management of players' condition and/or players being made to take painkilling injections etc and playing when they probably shouldn't have. This could of course have come from the backroom and McGlynn just went along with it, though he does strike me as the 'get on with it and stop moaning' type. 

Obviously there's always two sides to a story, but you read this from James Keatings and you do start to wonder;

 

Reflecting on his time at Raith in an exclusive chat with Football Scotland, he said: "At Inverness for two years, and at Hamilton, I only trained three times a week after having the operation on my hip. 

"It was the surgeon's programme, I needed to be managed going forward. Dundee United managed me to get me fully fit, went to Hamilton was managed fine and was playing, went to Inverness and proved there training three times a week worked.

"My record up there, both seasons I played most of the games and it brought the interest from Raith, they were desperate to sign me. 

"I went and they had no clue, they hadn't dug into anything to do with previous injuries. I went in for pre-season and after the first couple of days I had to get treatment on my hip every day no matter what. 

"The physio had a word with the manager saying 'we need to watch what we're doing workload wise, he's different from the rest of the boys'. John's got his ways and he wants his boys to train every single day. That wasn't something I could do, but I did do it. 

"The effects of me doing that was you were never going to get me 100 per cent. Come a Saturday I was always going to be tight, struggling to move because of the way the hip seizes up with that workload. 

"After numerous conversations with the manager he wouldn't adapt my training to get the best out of me. 

"To be honest it was just disappointing for me. I knew after the first couple of weeks I was never going to get a chance at Raith and that was it."

[Been going too long]

1 hour ago, Michael W said:

I still think McGlynn himself has a lot to do with it, with poor management of players' condition and/or players being made to take painkilling injections etc and playing when they probably shouldn't have. This could of course have come from the backroom and McGlynn just went along with it, though he does strike me as the 'get on with it and stop moaning' type. 

I think that’s really unfair and , the fact it’s continued this season suggests the opposite and it might not have been his fault after all.

Edited April 12, 2023 by Been going too long

[CALDERON]

It's either down to the pitch, training methods, fitness staff or just bad luck.

When you employee full time staff responsible for the players condition, it does raise a few questions.

[Michael W]

1 hour ago, SanStarko said:

Obviously there's always two sides to a story, but you read this from James Keatings and you do start to wonder;

 

There were numerous examples of prolonged injury lists during his time in charge, but the Keatings story did not look upon him favourably. I guess there's also an element that Keatings probably would say that so you can't take it as fact. I expect it is at least largely true, though. 

 

50 minutes ago, Been going too long said:

I think that’s really unfair and , the fact it’s continued this season suggests the opposite and it might not have been his fault after all.

If you manage players badly, you cause longer term damage and the player will keep getting injured again. It also seems to be McGlynn signings that suffer the worst of the injuries ss well. 

There is undoubtedly an underlying problem here. 

[renton]

54 minutes ago, Been going too long said:

I think that’s really unfair and , the fact it’s continued this season suggests the opposite and it might not have been his fault after all.

Matthews was one who was simply thrown back into it with pain killing injections, rather than get it treated right. Got an op in the Summer but obviously didn't get all of it. Ross and Gullan both seem to be carrying over issues longer term as well.

The liklihood is that the lack of management of injuries last season has bled over into this season. 

[Raith Against The Machine]

It's not the pitch. It just isn't.

I'm not an artificial grass apologist or anything, I don't really care either way, but that pitch isn't significantly different from hundreds (thousands?) of others across the globe. If the artificial pitches caused injuries then they wouldn't be used, it's as simple as that. 

There might be individual cases where the pitches don't suit certain people with certain pre-existing issues, but if you're looking for root causes, it's not the pitch. There are so many of them now it would be glaringly obvious if they were statistically significant in terms of injuries caused. 

I think it's a bit of a vicious cycle with having such a small squad. You lose any opportunity to rest players, or ease them back in after injury. Ross Millen, Tom Lang, Ryan Nolan, Liam Dick and Scott Brown have all played pretty much every minute they've been available for this season. If any one of those has a slight niggle on a Friday, they're still going to have to play on the Saturday. That's just perpetually rolling the dice on bigger injuries, and I suspect it's the primary cause of Tom Lang's latest issue. 

Even Lewis Vaughan's phased return to the first team only lasted about two weeks (after a long period of training, obviously) before he was doing 75+ minutes in every game. It's not a criticism of Ian Murray, it's a reality of running with a small squad. You end up taking these gambles because you don't have adequate alternatives. 

Couple that with John McGlynn's (apparent) insistence on training through injuries rather than resting them, and it's no great surprise. For all I know, Ian Murray might have a similar attitude. I suspect it's more common than you'd think. 

It also seems to be that we've got a problem around accurate diagnoses. Both Jamie Gullan and Ethan Ross have had the same injury this season and both have ultimately required surgery to sort it, but both also had periods of this season where they clearly weren't fully fit but were playing anyway. I think Ross Matthews was similar, there's been various theories about his current issue going back at least 18 months. Is that a club thing, choosing to hope that it's a more optimistic outlook and then paying the price for not facing up to reality, or is that a medical issue? Is it the case that whoever the club rely on to make these assessments isn't doing the job well enough? 

[Broken Algorithms]

The number of players we've got on our books who have missed time with long term injuries is pretty ridiculous. Vaughan, Lang, Easton, Nolan and Millen have all done ACLs in the past,  and Thomson has done his achillies. We've then got more 'chronic' injuries for Gullan, Matthews and Ross.

[Scary Bear]

1 hour ago, SanStarko said:

Obviously there's always two sides to a story, but you read this from James Keatings and you do start to wonder;

 

Reflecting on his time at Raith in an exclusive chat with Football Scotland, he said: "At Inverness for two years, and at Hamilton, I only trained three times a week after having the operation on my hip. 

"It was the surgeon's programme, I needed to be managed going forward. Dundee United managed me to get me fully fit, went to Hamilton was managed fine and was playing, went to Inverness and proved there training three times a week worked.

"My record up there, both seasons I played most of the games and it brought the interest from Raith, they were desperate to sign me. 

"I went and they had no clue, they hadn't dug into anything to do with previous injuries. I went in for pre-season and after the first couple of days I had to get treatment on my hip every day no matter what. 

"The physio had a word with the manager saying 'we need to watch what we're doing workload wise, he's different from the rest of the boys'. John's got his ways and he wants his boys to train every single day. That wasn't something I could do, but I did do it. 

"The effects of me doing that was you were never going to get me 100 per cent. Come a Saturday I was always going to be tight, struggling to move because of the way the hip seizes up with that workload. 

"After numerous conversations with the manager he wouldn't adapt my training to get the best out of me. 

"To be honest it was just disappointing for me. I knew after the first couple of weeks I was never going to get a chance at Raith and that was it."

That’s not bad luck. That’s just poor research, then piss poor people management.

[CALDERON]

I guess what's different about our pitch is that I'm sure Sim said the club bought a rugby grade surface by mistake,  if that makes any difference with regards to training methods etc.

Edited April 12, 2023 by CALDERON

[McGuigan1978]

Our injury record was absolutely dreadful before we installed the artificial surface, so while it may very well not suit some individuals, it’s also not the underlying reason we’ve been plagued with injuries for longer than I can remember now. 

I’d never read that interview with Keatings before, but I’d heard a rumour that he revealed to us he could barely train after he joined, (I’d heard fewer than three times a week but who knows,) but as has been mentioned, that’s very much on the club, or perhaps just John McGlynn not doing due diligence properly. 

[Broken Algorithms]

5 minutes ago, McGuigan1978 said:

Our injury record was absolutely dreadful before we installed the artificial surface, so while it may very well not suit some individuals, it’s also not the underlying reason we’ve been plagued with injuries for longer than I can remember now. 

I’d never read that interview with Keatings before, but I’d heard a rumour that he revealed to us he could barely train after he joined, (I’d heard fewer than three times a week but who knows,) but as has been mentioned, that’s very much on the club, or perhaps just John McGlynn not doing due diligence properly. 

Pretty sure he did a podcast where he said he was assured he'd been told that he'd not need to train if there were any flare ups only for it to be completely untrue.

[Specky Ginger]

The whole Keatings signing was bonkers.

Even if you sign someone on a PCA, surely they're signed subject to passing a medical.

The mind boggles as to what sort of fitness tests he underwent prior to his contract being finalised.

[TheScarf]

By all accounts we were desperate to get him off the wage bill.  I was pissing myself when you signed him.  They boy can't play full time football anymore, his body is broken.