Raith_Raver Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 Things haven't gone our way much on the pitch and our personnel problems are well dissected. However it's still early days and I think we'll start to improve and move up the league once Murray gets things settled. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.R.FC Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 (edited) 36 minutes ago, baillieinleeds said: Ok, I’ll go with. He’s way out of his depth in the Championship. His time in charge of St Mirren is proof he isn’t up to it. He had a decent squad at St Mirren too. I really hoped he learned his craft. It was Jack Ross that was the real brains in his one and only successful season. There I’ve said it. And the concerns over his time at St Mirren would be fair enough and certainly better than making things up about his time in charge of Airdrie. There is no doubt that Ross and Murray were an excellent combo at Dumbarton and obviously got the best out of each other. The whole Ross being the ‘real brains’ is more overplayed nonsense though. He joined as assistant in 2011, if he was the ‘real brains’ why were Dumbarton rock bottom of the Championship with one win when Murray arrived in November 2012? Why didn’t Ross have an impact on results under the previous manager? Edited October 5, 2022 by R.R.FC 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Scorpio Posted October 5, 2022 Author Share Posted October 5, 2022 6 minutes ago, Raith_Raver said: Things haven't gone our way much on the pitch and our personnel problems are well dissected. However it's still early days and I think we'll start to improve and move up the league once Murray gets things settled. Agreed. I think, at the very least, we need to actually give Murray a chance to get something close to our best team on the pitch. Whole lot of moaning and groaning going on, which is what Rovers fans tend to do best. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renton Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 2 minutes ago, Michael W said: I don't think there's much doubt the current squad is weaker than last season's squad. Look at the defence for example - one player remains from last season and you would get near unanimous agreement that he was the weakest starting player in last season's defence. Millen is a significant downgrade on Tumilty and we are also weaker at CB than we were too. We are still struggling to score goals and lack quality up front, which is not really new. Poplatnik was no world beater but scored a few, so until Vaughan is back we are currently weaker there also. You don't want to lump pressure on a new player, let alone one that's just joined having not kicked a ball for a few months, but we need big John to work out for us Midfield is the one area I think we are better. Easton, whilst inconsistent, is an upgrade on Zanatta. There's McBride in there as well, though I have reservations there. We've also added Brown as well. Plenty options, but if the forwards aren't putting the chances away, strong midfields won't have the desired impact. There's debate over how strong last season's squad really was in relative terms, because we had a season of extreme contrast. The first half we were title contenders, the second we were relegation fodder. You can point to things like Zanatta's purple patch in the first few months as contributory factors to the discrepancy, but were we just punching badly and reverted to type? Was the truth somewhere in the middle between the extremes demonstrated and our finish reflected the squad's strength? Unwelcome attention was of course heaped on the club but the rot had set in even before that. It no doubt prolonged the misery, though. In terms of last season there is no doubt in my mind we were punching and reverted to type. Even early doors we had a disconcerting ability to chuck away plenty of goals, but were scoring enough from midfield to cover the deficit. That Rovers team was really not very good at defending it's 18 yard box. Up top, Varian got 2 league goals all season (Connell is half way there!) and Poplatnik's reputation is inflated by a purple patch and "cup final" heroics in what would otherwise have not been a stellar record either. Possibly the biggest issue between the two halves of the season wasn't even Zanatta's inevitable downturn in form - but rather Spencer's injury. He played a unique role in the team - was a single point of failure. He did that quarterback role of taking the ball off the centre backs and recycling it (and not just square passes but real probing balls) but also crucially slotting in to cover which ever full back was bombing to the byline under McGlynn's favoured tactics. What started as some brittleness in defence then became a full on crisis as we got turned over time and time again in transition with the centre backs hopelessly exposed because the full backs were caught up the pitch and there was no Spencer slotting in to help. In my opinion, it's still the lack of a centre forward that is killing us. Connell has shown he can do it but need to add consistency, Gullan likewise was starting to show it before his injury. Neither are particularly experienced at this level and so there is massive question marks over whether they can step up, which leaves a lot on Frederikson to show up and hit the ground running. Beyond that though, I think Easton is as technically good and adventrous player you could ask for, O'Riordan is as good as any Centre Back we had last season, Stanton is a player transformed. Millen isn't great and he and Connolly arent working well together. The issue is consistency up top, by and large. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TxRover Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 10 minutes ago, Hank Scorpio said: Agreed. I think, at the very least, we need to actually give Murray a chance to get something close to our best team on the pitch. Whole lot of moaning and groaning going on, which is what Rovers fans tend to do best. The list of changes, writ on front of you, should give any fan pause… 1 hour ago, R.R.FC said: …we have lost: Tumilty, Berra, Benedictus, McKay, Musonda, Mackie, Williamson, Zanatta, Poplatnik and Varian whilst having Spencer, Matthews, Lang and Vaughan missing for most of this season They have been replaced with: Millen, O’Riordan, Nolan, Ngwenya, Brown, Easton, McBride and Connell. Despite working on keeping up a list of the team, I had never sat down at actually LOOKED at a list like that written out. It’s hard to argue that IM has had a fair chance yet, especially with how, relatively, late into the process he was hired. The difficult recruitment in this off-season was an unexpected thorn in everyone’s side too. It is very difficult to blame this wholly on IM, and impossible to ignore the recent ply depart elephant in the room that is likely hamstringing us financially, regardless of what Sims says. With the dogs abuse the Club took post January with signing our own personal Marie Rose, and the complete collapse of form, it’s not really a surprise IM is struggling to rebuild the team and find belief in the remaining players. Despite these travails, IM has so far come up with a team that plays a moderately attractive game between the penalty areas, but that defends and attacks with all the threat of a gang of kids in a youth match. Time should improve the defending more, signings are all that can improve the attack this year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirJimmyofNic Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 3 hours ago, baillieinleeds said: I want Berra. as manager. Eventually, but my guess is the boat has sailed on him coming back to be assistant. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raith_Raver Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 As an aside, that King of Rangers penalty howler last night reminded me of Millen's against Inverness. I don't think anyone's forgiven Millen, but no big deal was made about KIng's crazy challenge. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Scorpio Posted October 5, 2022 Author Share Posted October 5, 2022 13 minutes ago, Raith_Raver said: As an aside, that King of Rangers penalty howler last night reminded me of Millen's against Inverness. I don't think anyone's forgiven Millen, but no big deal was made about KIng's crazy challenge. I don’t think Millen is particularly great at right back, but a combination of being spoiled with Tumilty over the last two seasons and fans of previous clubs telling Rovers fans on social media and on here that he was pish has made him a really easy target. We’ve always got to have someone to direct our ire towards. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbykdy Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 3 hours ago, R.R.FC said: I don’t really think the overall squad is as strong as some seem to think and I am usually a bit of a happy clapper. I wouldn’t be considering sacking Murray until we’ve played at least 18 games, regardless of the next few results. People complain about us only winning 3 from our first 8 but it’s the same as McGlynn won in his last 19 and he had a much stronger squad. I’m not saying Murray has done a fantastic job or is beyond criticism by any means, I think the squad building has been poor this summer. It’s clearly been a difficult market and thankfully there are other teams who have faced the same issues as us but ultimately whether it be through budget cuts or poor recruitment, I would say our squad is quite a bit weaker than last season. This season, we are exactly where I think we should be looking at our squad, whereas last year the form seemed like a huge underperformance based on what we had. Weirdly, it’s one of the reasons I wouldn’t be looking to remove Murray anytime soon, I don’t think another manager comes in and suddenly has this side winning most weeks with its clear deficiencies and these can’t be addressed until January. As I saw someone say before, you can’t midfield your way to success in this league, yes we are strong there but if you have defensive frailties and nothing up front you will find yourself continuing to lose out by ‘small margins’ in most games. Results before the January window should be reviewed and if we are bottom of the league then let another manager have a go at fixing the problems with new players in January. However, if we are still in the 5th-7th range, Murray should get the window to continue to mould his own squad and given the benefit of the doubt over a tough summer market being a one off issue. From last seasons squad we have lost: Tumilty, Berra, Benedictus, McKay, Musonda, Mackie, Williamson, Zanatta, Poplatnik and Varian whilst having Spencer, Matthews, Lang and Vaughan missing for most of this season (admittedly 3 of those 4 were long term absences last season and we saw how the effected us). They have been replaced with: Millen, O’Riordan, Nolan, Ngwenya, Brown, Easton, McBride and Connell. There is nobody that can convince me the squad overall has been improved from last season, which was a side that finished the second half of the season with relegation form. We are stronger in central midfield but I would say weaker in every other position. We could probably name 2 midfields of different players that would be good Championship level but struggle to name one solid back 4 or any dangerous forward line, that’s the problem. The manager absolutely takes criticism for that but we’re stuck with what we have until January now (barring Frederiksen if he ever gets a work permit) and I actually think he is getting decent enough performances out of the hamstrung squad we have. Who was Williamson from last season? I may be getting old but I can't recall a player by that name. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raith_Raver Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 9 minutes ago, bobbykdy said: Who was Williamson from last season? I may be getting old but I can't recall a player by that name. On loan from Rangers. He's now on loan at Dundee. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steakngravy Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 Loan signing from Rangers I think. In the January transfer window. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbykdy Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 1 minute ago, Raith_Raver said: On loan from Rangers. He's now on loan at Dundee. Oh aye, remember him now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raith_Raver Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 1 minute ago, bobbykdy said: Oh aye, remember him now. Dundee fans giving him pelters for last nights "invisible" performance. I can't much remembner what he was like with us. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbykdy Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 3 minutes ago, Raith_Raver said: Dundee fans giving him pelters for last nights "invisible" performance. I can't much remembner what he was like with us. Flitted in and out of games as I recall. Was hamstrung by being a winter signing which co incided with our awful downturn. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Langtounlaud Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 10 minutes ago, bobbykdy said: Flitted in and out of games as I recall. Was hamstrung by being a winter signing which co incided with our awful downturn. He also got injured towards the end of the season. He was in a moonboot at the final 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renton Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 29 minutes ago, Raith_Raver said: Dundee fans giving him pelters for last nights "invisible" performance. I can't much remembner what he was like with us. Walking temper tantrum, mostly. Memorably wound up that one Hamilton fan at the end of the season, scoring twice. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ro Sham Bo Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 2 hours ago, Raith_Raver said: As an aside, that King of Rangers penalty howler last night reminded me of Millen's against Inverness. I don't think anyone's forgiven Millen, but no big deal was made about KIng's crazy challenge. Probably because Millen isn't an 18 year old with only a handful of games under his belt. I would need to watch it back but on first viewing I didn't think it was as daft as Millen's was anyway. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountryBumpkin Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 16 minutes ago, Ro Sham Bo said: Probably because Millen isn't an 18 year old with only a handful of games under his belt. I would need to watch it back but on first viewing I didn't think it was as daft as Millen's was anyway. Neither did I. It was a risky and ultimately bad challenge, but put it into context, 18 year old lad playing against one of the best club sides in Europe, at Anfield and up against Diaz, who is top quality (not top-top, just top). The boy deserves a break, he's been coached by Kevin Thomson, I'm surprised that he's even semi competent. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raith_Raver Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 39 minutes ago, CountryBumpkin said: Neither did I. It was a risky and ultimately bad challenge, but put it into context, 18 year old lad playing against one of the best club sides in Europe, at Anfield and up against Diaz, who is top quality (not top-top, just top). The boy deserves a break, he's been coached by Kevin Thomson, I'm surprised that he's even semi competent. Irrelevant. The forward had nothing to do with the challenge, it was wild whether it was Diaz or MacKay. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raith_Raver Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 1 hour ago, Ro Sham Bo said: Probably because Millen isn't an 18 year old with only a handful of games under his belt. I would need to watch it back but on first viewing I didn't think it was as daft as Millen's was anyway. Of course, you'd never miss an opportunity to put down a Rovers player... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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