The New Raith Rovers Thread

[Rob1885]

For the legal eagles contributing at the moment.
If in future, would it be sensible to ask a prospective signing to disclose any possible skeletons that might be hiding in their bedroom furniture, failing to do so should it arise later be grounds for termination due to harm to reputation of the employer.

Aye but it was hardly a secret in this case.

Had they signed a player and then all this came out, you'd have sympathy.

[Left Back]

1 minute ago, lichtgilphead said:

 

PVG is olso only for specific professions.

Anyone can get a basic disclosure.  All other vettings are limited.

[ped24]

May have been posted already but this needs to be thrown back at the club.
 

The Concordat of Raith Rovers FC

Whilst recognising fully that Raith Rovers Football Club must adhere to the regulations of the football authorities and conform with company law, the Board and fans of the club agree that the following aims and values should shape the way in which the club operates and its future development.
1. Raith Rovers is an inclusive entity comprising the companies that govern it, the Board of Directors, the players and staff, the fans and the local community.
2. The core objective of all that we do is to maintain and develop a healthy, vibrant and well-respected football club in Kirkcaldy that makes a positive contribution to Scottish football and the local community for present and future generations.
3. We must always act with the long-term interests of Raith Rovers at heart, with any risks being measurable and manageable.
4. Our ambition in football is to compete at the highest level possible and achieve the greatest success, while operating within the resources available.
5. The club should play an active role at the heart of the community and continually aim to strengthen bonds with the local community through working closely with public bodies and local businesses and organisations.
6. The stadium in which the team plays should be fit for purpose for playing football, the safety and comfort of fans and developing and securing commercial sources of income.
7. Shared and stable ownership is the best way forward for the club, thus avoiding short-termism by individuals which could damage our long-term interests.
8. Mutual respect is important, with the voice of supporters being listened to and fans having a reciprocal responsibility to work together in a productive and positive manner.
9. The club should operate in an open and inclusive manner, while recognising there will be issues where commercial and personal confidentiality

[Zen Archer (Raconteur)]

1 minute ago, Rob1885 said:

Aye but it was hardly a secret in this case.

Had they signed a player and then all this came out, you'd have sympathy.

Sorry, this was on the back of the disclosure chat, I should have made this clearer.

[strichener]

5 minutes ago, Yoss said:

Well, yes you're right as the law stands. That's why I was suggesting changing or extending it.

There is no basis on which to make footballers subject to PVGs

Let's not get carried away with drawing up legal instruments to stop morally objectionable actions being taken by football executives.

5 minutes ago, Zen Archer (Raconteur) said:

For the legal eagles contributing at the moment.

If in future, would it be sensible to ask a prospective signing to disclose any possible skeletons that might be hiding in their bedroom furniture, failing to do so should it arise later be grounds for termination due to harm to reputation of the employer.

They could already do this if they included it in a person's contract.  Given the publicity around Goodwillie there are really no circumstances that Raith could claim reputational damage and little indication of any buyer's remorse anyway.

[San Starko Rover]

4 minutes ago, Florentine_Pogen said:
 

Financially there is a difference. Morally, I beg to differ.

There’s a massive difference between your club employing someone and the opposition employing them. You have no control of their signings.  Hearts employed Graham Rix I don’t recall any boycott by Hibs over it. Goodwillie has been with Clyde for 5 years countless teams have taken there away supports there. 

[shizzlemanizzle]

1 hour ago, DGW9 said:

I heard he's on 70k a year at Raith 

That’s quite the unfortunate username to post an ‘in the know’ type post!

51 minutes ago, CALDERON said:

I won't be posting on this forum for the forseeable about Raith Rovers.  The past few days have been heart breaking and I genuinely don't know where my beloved club goes from here.

It's been a blast folks.

Mate, I hear you but don’t go. The vast majority of Scottish football fans see this for what it is and have been heartened by the Raith fans reaction. Genuinely gutted for you but stay and fight to get your club back, don’t let a bunch of old men chase you away.

[FairWeatherFan]

4 minutes ago, Left Back said:

PVG is olso only for specific professions.

Anyone can get a basic disclosure.  All other vettings are limited.

As a football player & DPD delivery driver I've seen mentioned he wouldn't be entitled to anything other than a Basic disclosure. 

Its been so long even his assault convictions wouldn't be disclosed on that. 

[lichtgilphead]

9 minutes ago, Left Back said:

PVG is olso only for specific professions.

Anyone can get a basic disclosure.  All other vettings are limited.

PVG is for anyone undertaking 'regulated work' i.e. work with kids or vulnerable adults

https://www.mygov.scot/pvg-scheme/types-of-work-covered-by-pvg

It covers lots of roles, both paid or unpaid, and is not limited to professions

EDITED TO ADD

PVG could apply if the 1st team players were required to coach the local kids at a commuity club.

Edited February 2, 2022 by lichtgilphead

[Left Back]

2 minutes ago, strichener said:

There is no basis on which to make footballers subject to PVGs

Let's not get carried away with drawing up legal instruments to stop morally objectionable actions being taken by football executives.

This is the crux of it and what I was trying to point out earlier.

In the eyes of the law no-one has committed a crime here and no-one is at risk of working with PVG’s so there is nothing any authority can do or reasonable law that could be passed that might have prevented this scenario.

[vikingTON]

9 minutes ago, Trogdor said:

It'll be a war of attrition but you'll win it.

Vote with your feet, keep your money in your pocket and hold the line. They'll only do something when it's hitting them in the pocket. Their double down statement showed that.

All the best, I quite like the Rovers and I hope you get your club back. It's horrendous from the outside looking in, I can only imagine how I'd feel if it were Ayr.

It's easy to say this, but the reality is that Raith are massively beholden to a single owner/backer. It's not as simple then as 'just withhold money and they'll go away' - they can actually try to take the ball away with them. See Scott, Hugh, when the Morton fanbase and the local council refused to buy what he was selling. 

The problem that Raith's fanbase has is that their board's decisions over the past few years (above all losing utterly ludicrous amounts year on year in the third tier*) mean that their club is now beholden to pretty much one guy. If Sim takes the huff or acts like an arsehole, the game's a bogey and there's no straightforward way to empty him. 

 

 

 

*

Spoiler

Before anyone raises my club's similar, ludicrous spending - the reason why we have escaped as a fan-owned club today is largely due to sheer good fortune. It was a family ownership that in the end was willing to write most things off and hand the club over, just to get the hell out of there. A more ruthless 'investor' would have been a different story and we dodged a bullet. 

 

[blackislekillie]

Mate, I hear you but don’t go. The vast majority of Scottish football fans see this for what it is and have been heartened by the Raith fans reaction. Genuinely gutted for you but stay and fight to get your club back, don’t let a bunch of old men chase you away.

This. Stay on the forum and post about your club. It will be supporters like you that turn this shitshow around.

[Left Back]

3 minutes ago, lichtgilphead said:

PVG is for anyone undertaking 'regulated work' i.e. worl with kids or vulnerable adults

https://www.mygov.scot/pvg-scheme/types-of-work-covered-by-pvg

It covers lots of roles, both paid or unpaid, and is not limited to professions

That’s fair but you know what I was meaning.  It doesn’t cover footballers and is limited to specific roles/organisations.  Joe public or more importantly Joe publics employer can’t just demand a PVG check.  The authorities first have to deem that PVG checks are necessary in that situation.  That won’t be happening for footballers.

[lichtgilphead]

3 minutes ago, Left Back said:

That’s fair but you know what I was meaning.  It doesn’t cover footballers and is limited to specific roles/organisations.  Joe public or more importantly Joe publics employer can’t just demand a PVG check.  The authorities first have to deem that PVG checks are necessary in that situation.  That won’t be happening for footballers.

The duty is upon the employer to decide whether the duties of the post require a PVG. As I suggest in my edited post above, a pro footballers work duties could include coaching kids. In these circumstances I would expect a PVG to be required.

[Paco]

There’s a massive difference between your club employing someone and the opposition employing them. You have no control of their signings.  Hearts employed Graham Rix I don’t recall any boycott by Hibs over it. Goodwillie has been with Clyde for 5 years countless teams have taken there away supports there. 

Yeah, I agree with this. I went to Clyde away without a second thought to be honest, and I don’t imagine any away support boycott will last any amount of time at Stark’s Park either. A few individuals may not go, particularly in the next few months, but let’s not pretend Kilmarnock won’t fill the away end if they can win the league on the final day of the season.

I can’t support him being at my own club though. There’s a big difference there. It probably is logically hypocritical, but so be it.

[Left Back]

2 minutes ago, lichtgilphead said:

The duty is upon the employer to decide whether the duties of the post require a PVG. As I suggest in my edited post above, a pro footballers work duties could include coaching kids. In these circumstances I would expect a PVG to be required.

That would make them a coach, totally separate role to being a pro footballer.

ETA and as I said is deemed by the authorities to require PVG.  Employers don’t make that determination.  They follow the guidelines that are laid down by government on whether PVG is required.

Edited February 2, 2022 by Left Back

[Trogdor]

5 minutes ago, virginton said:

It's easy to say this, but the reality is that Raith are massively beholden to a single owner/backer. It's not as simple then as 'just withhold money and they'll go away' - they can actually try to take the ball away with them. See Scott, Hugh, when the Morton fanbase and the local council refused to buy what he was selling. 

The problem that Raith's fanbase has is that their board's decisions over the past few years (above all losing utterly ludicrous amounts year on year in the third tier*) mean that their club is now beholden to pretty much one guy. If Sim takes the huff or acts like an arsehole, the game's a bogey and there's no straightforward way to empty him. 

*

  Reveal hidden contents

Before anyone raises my club's similar, ludicrous spending - the reason why we have escaped as a fan-owned club today is largely due to sheer good fortune. It was a family ownership that in the end was willing to write most things off and hand the club over, just to get the hell out of there. A more ruthless 'investor' would have been a different story and we dodged a bullet. 

It is easy to say but if they want change they need to fight for it and it will be attritional. The calculus from the Raith board must be that this will blow over. The fans need to show that it won't - I don't think the fans really have any other option here.

As for whether Sim would go into the huff, fold the club and asset strip it. I can't really speak to that but it is a risk when the ownership/power is essenitally one individual. You'd think after the ludicrous losses you mentioned that he's absorbed that he'd be in it for the right reasons and step aside if it came to it. Who knows?

It's a shit situation for Rovers fans either way tbh. They have my sympathies.

[kingjoey]

52 minutes ago, SuperSaints1877 said:

There was a lot of details about the rape allegations when your club signed him. Seems as though you may want to go back and check. He had also been involved and convicted of three separate assaults. 

https://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.php?/topic/213162-the-famous-aberdeen-season-202122/page/17/

 

Not sure what you’re trying to prove here, but not a player that I’m proud of being having been at my club. 

[invergowrie arab]

1 minute ago, Left Back said:

That would make them a coach, totally separate role to being a pro footballer.

If the employer states it one of the duties of a pro footballer then its one of the duties.

Meeting competition winners, escorting mascots, school and hospital visits, coaching youth teams and community outreach coaching would all be reasonable duties for a pro footballer.

It's doubtful any would be unsupervised but it would be up to the employer to assess that. There isn't a boilerplate generic contract all pro footballers sign. 

[ped24]

My email to the club(for all the difference it will make) 

FAO Raith Rovers Board & Management

 

I am writing as an extremely concerned supporter regarding events this week.

 

I am a season ticket holder and so are my two boys who are aged 8 and 11. We look forward to the weekend and attending matches both home and away. Supporting Raith Rovers has been a massive distraction through the difficulties over the last two years. We've been proud of the direction the club was moving in, creating strong community links with the community foundation. Having men, women and childrens' teams that the club and community can be proud of was great to see. Combine this with successful season we are having:

• challenging for promotion
• challenge cup semi final
• big match with celtic
• top team in Fife.

As a family we were extremely proud supporters of Raith Rovers as fourth and fifth generation fans (at least).

 

So with this in mind I am sure you can understand my dismay at the Club's decision to sign Goodwillie. I would say the lack of foresight and common sense was staggering but the Club were aware of their main sponsor's stance on the issue and that of many of their fans.

 

My first concern turned to the children attending Rovers matches who will now have to listen to fans chanting at Goodwillie, leaving parents like myself facing conversations about a subject you children should not have to continue to concern themselves with or withdrawing support and losing our Saturday afternoons watching the game and team we love.

 

But, aso consider the impact this will have on kid supporters attending school or interacting with their friends. Kids will have seen media reports - kids at my sons' school and their friends know they are Rovers fans - I've encouraged them to be proud of it- we felt part of the Rovers' 'family'. Now you've extended that 'family' and potentially subjected my kids to taunts and comments about rape and the condoning of previous abusive behaviour over footballing ability. Imagine me and my wife telling our 8 year old they might hear the term rape associated with their beloved club and trying to give some sort of explanation of what that term means. Tell me -did you consider this when signing this player? And if not did you consider it before issuing your statement yesterday afternoon?

 

I sincerely hope common sense and morality prevails and this man never plays for the Club I love. Maybe that way my sons will get to watch their heroes in a stadium free from discussion and shouts about rape.

 

The only way this Club can move forward is to distance themselves from this attitude of football talent being above all else. If you want to be the family and community club you claim to be you have to remember that these players are role models (if not heroes) for every young person that walks into the stand - and for the wider community. You must reflect on your decision making and the very least we all deserve is an apology and you starting to set things right by distancing the Club from Goodwillie. Surely someone on the Board can see this? 

 

I for one would rather support the Club I know Rovers can be - one that is family and community centred and that I feel proud my boys support, doing their best in the Championship, than a Premier League Team everyone hates due to your stance about this individual. It's time to open your eyes and listen to not just this generation of fans but the next ones too who you have deeply hurt with your actions - time to open your eyes and recognise this club is much more than the points in a league table!!

 

My sons are aware that I have written to you and we await your response.