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The New Raith Rovers Thread


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1 minute ago, Piehutt said:

Without speaking with the player it is tricky to know if he is remorseful or if he is worthy of rehabilitation. I'm not aware of any statement he has made to that end. 

Other point - I'm sure plenty of clubs have hired people with criminal convictions, burglary, assault etc. Be they players or staff. But suddenly there is a huge red line drawn at this?

There seemed to be a fair bit of support for David Martindale, for example, who did jail time for organised crime and money laundering. Who knows what impact his actions would have had on people's lives, and what else may have happened that he wasn't convicted of. 

It's not exactly mind-boggling that people react differently to different offences. Genocide is a bit different to shop-lifting a multi-pack of Quavers. People, pretty reasonably have different shades of 'disgust' at different crimes.

Remorse is extremely important in these cases. Yes, someone like Martindale might have been a right c**t at some point. But he's taken his punishment, has been open and honest about his guilt and seems to be genuinely remorseful about it and has taken steps to improve as a person. That deserves some degree of admiration and suggests that he isn't actually a c**t any more and has worked on becoming a better person.

Goodwillie hasn't done any of that. The only things I've ever seen him say about the whole case are how it's affected him. Which suggests he's still the same scummy c**t he always was when he raped someone. 

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9 minutes ago, smpar said:

It is an enormous issue in our society that so many men are so desperate to defend actions such as Goodwillie’s, simply on the basis that he doesn’t have a criminal conviction for it.

I would be very, very interested to know if RavyDavy, Raith Raver and others like them would be willing stand in front of one of the many, many rape victims out there whose abusers did not face criminal proceedings, and tell them they weren’t actually raped, because nobody was criminally convicted for abusing them.

Can you show me where I have defended David Goodwillie? 

I await your apology. Thanks 

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Genuinely feel for the real Rovers fans here who have rightly decided that their club signing an unrepentant rapist is where a line has to be drawn, despite their years of of emotional and financial attachment. Hopefully the player and those who sanctioned the transfer are removed in the near future and you can get back to supporting your team.

I can't imagine how the girl, who's life was ruined by this piece of shit, is feeling now. 

 

 

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Think it's fair to say this decision has backfired massively on Raith and they have lost all control of the story. 
I also think they are legally hamstrung from saying very much. As the players employers, they have a duty to act in his interests, so I'm sure couldn't release a statement referring to the civil case found against him. 
I personally believe in rehabilitation and if you do, you can't really take the view that 'as long as it's not in my club, my sport, my league, something I care about' etc. 
Without speaking with the player it is tricky to know if he is remorseful or if he is worthy of rehabilitation. I'm not aware of any statement he has made to that end. 
My guess is Raith may well have to place the player on garden leave. 
Other point - I'm sure plenty of clubs have hired people with criminal convictions, burglary, assault etc. Be they players or staff. But suddenly there is a huge red line drawn at this?
There seemed to be a fair bit of support for David Martindale, for example, who did jail time for organised crime and money laundering. Who knows what impact his actions would have had on people's lives, and what else may have happened that he wasn't convicted of. 

He pleaded not guilty and has faced no criminal proceedings, how can he be rehabilitated or demonstrate remorse?

Yes, ‘suddenly’ there is a huge line drawn at rape. Others such as Martindale have accepted responsibility for their offences and have demonstrated insight into the ramifications and impact of their offences. Those are signs of rehabilitation. I like how you have pointed out that Martindale served a custodial sentence but still fail to see what the difference is between his case and this one. Surely you’re not that dense?
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1 minute ago, Gordon EF said:

 

2 minutes ago, Gordon EF said:

It's not exactly mind-boggling that people react differently to different offences. Genocide is a bit different to shop-lifting a multi-pack of Quavers. People, pretty reasonably have different shades of 'disgust' at different crimes.

Remorse is extremely important in these cases. Yes, someone like Martindale might have been a right c**t at some point. But he's taken his punishment, has been open and honest about his guilt and seems to be genuinely remorseful about it and has taken steps to improve as a person. That deserves some degree of admiration and suggests that he isn't actually a c**t any more and has worked on becoming a better person.

Goodwillie hasn't done any of that. The only things I've ever seen him say about the whole case are how it's affected him. Which suggests he's still the same scummy c**t he always was when he raped someone. 

Don't disagree, but just making the point there will be other cases and other incidents that people take a different view on, and if you draw a line with Goodwillie, you surely have to draw a line with other cases. 

A lot of crime will have a devastating impact on people's lives and I'm sure people will have been hired and played for all of our clubs over the years with criminal records, cases that don't get to court but would if the victims were able to take it to a civil court. 

 

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Anyways, so I missed this news until this morning. I've now had a cup of tea and an hour to think on it, and - while I already knew what my intellectual reaction to it would be - emotionally I'm more upset by it than I realised I was going to be.

With an unfortunate handful of exceptions, I've been mostly reassured by the reactions on here skimming back through the past pages. 

Thank you to all the good Raith fans on here, the ones I've mostly chatted to over the years - too many to go back through the thread and list, but you know who you are. Most of you have deeper emotional commitments and connections to the club than I do, so I offer my genuine sympathies.

And thanks to the fans of other clubs who have mostly posted on here in the right spirit rather than make it a pile-on.

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1 minute ago, Stellaboz said:

Is that really Gregory Tade welcoming him on the Rover's Facebook page?!

He said on Twitter that Goodwillie is a "great guy" and "has made a few mistakes when he was a young boy".

Here is his absolute nuke of a take:

 

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Not going to repeat what's been said in the numerous posts above. Agree with pretty much all of it other than the couple of weirdos.

As an aside - where does it go from here do we think? Because I get the impression that the board have made an arse of this for themselves regardless of what happens. Ultimately if they came out in a couple of days saying "lads, we got it wrong" and then (just as an example) they terminated Goodwillie's contact, it doesn't exactly just go away does it? Huge questions would still need to be asked of the leadership of the club as to how the decision making process has failed so spectacularly on this.

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47 minutes ago, Shadwell Dog said:

Football is the least moral sport out there. The game is littered with players found guilty of this that and the other and noone gives a feck. Declan Gallagher, Alan Lithgow, benedictus, McGowan at Dundee for example. Any individual out with football found guilty of some of those offences would be sacked straight away and would find it almost impossible just to pick up where they left off before the incident  If the player is good at playing football some clubs and fans seem willing to put up with all sorts of dodgy characters . Feck sake benzema has been found guilty of blackmailing a teammate but is still playing for real every week with little fuss. The goodwillie case I think due to it being rape and the lack of any remorse is probably a step too far but you are right other clubs need to look at some of the folk they've happily signed without a fuss over the years.

I think you’re right re: morals in the football game.  See ; Gordon Strachan’s comments of a couple of years ago, regarding his opinion of morals in the game.

Most  football fans would be amazed/disappointed/stunned at how low the levels of mortality actually are and that will more than likely, have included their own club at some point.

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6 minutes ago, Senor Bairn said:

You're actually fucking thick hahahaha

I'm fucking thick? 

Why? Do I agree with the signing? No, not really. Do I despair at the hysteria and hypocrisy? Yes. 

People don't like to be challenged on shit like that.

One crime is more serious than others, but neither is excusable or welcome so why is Benedictus' history tolerated? 

He battered 2 blokes and verbally abused his ex partner to a point that she was shit scared.... That's pretty bad, no? 

The notion that it's OK because it's a lesser crime is frankly ridiculous. 

If you can't see that, then you are the one who is "fucking thick" 

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5 minutes ago, Yoss said:

Anyways, so I missed this news until this morning. I've now had a cup of tea and an hour to think on it, and - while I already knew what my intellectual reaction to it would be - emotionally I'm more upset by it than I realised I was going to be.

With an unfortunate handful of exceptions, I've been mostly reassured by the reactions on here skimming back through the past pages. 

Thank you to all the good Raith fans on here, the ones I've mostly chatted to over the years - too many to go back through the thread and list, but you know who you are. Most of you have deeper emotional commitments and connections to the club than I do, so I offer my genuine sympathies.

And thanks to the fans of other clubs who have mostly posted on here in the right spirit rather than make it a pile-on.

Oh, and I meant to add. Without going into detail my employers also have a financial relationship with the club. I have made my strength of feeling known to them and this is currently being reviewed.

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