Gordon EF Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 1 minute ago, Piehutt said: Without speaking with the player it is tricky to know if he is remorseful or if he is worthy of rehabilitation. I'm not aware of any statement he has made to that end. Other point - I'm sure plenty of clubs have hired people with criminal convictions, burglary, assault etc. Be they players or staff. But suddenly there is a huge red line drawn at this? There seemed to be a fair bit of support for David Martindale, for example, who did jail time for organised crime and money laundering. Who knows what impact his actions would have had on people's lives, and what else may have happened that he wasn't convicted of. It's not exactly mind-boggling that people react differently to different offences. Genocide is a bit different to shop-lifting a multi-pack of Quavers. People, pretty reasonably have different shades of 'disgust' at different crimes. Remorse is extremely important in these cases. Yes, someone like Martindale might have been a right c**t at some point. But he's taken his punishment, has been open and honest about his guilt and seems to be genuinely remorseful about it and has taken steps to improve as a person. That deserves some degree of admiration and suggests that he isn't actually a c**t any more and has worked on becoming a better person. Goodwillie hasn't done any of that. The only things I've ever seen him say about the whole case are how it's affected him. Which suggests he's still the same scummy c**t he always was when he raped someone. 14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RavyDavy Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 9 minutes ago, smpar said: It is an enormous issue in our society that so many men are so desperate to defend actions such as Goodwillie’s, simply on the basis that he doesn’t have a criminal conviction for it. I would be very, very interested to know if RavyDavy, Raith Raver and others like them would be willing stand in front of one of the many, many rape victims out there whose abusers did not face criminal proceedings, and tell them they weren’t actually raped, because nobody was criminally convicted for abusing them. Can you show me where I have defended David Goodwillie? I await your apology. Thanks -2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Angelo Barksdale Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 Genuinely feel for the real Rovers fans here who have rightly decided that their club signing an unrepentant rapist is where a line has to be drawn, despite their years of of emotional and financial attachment. Hopefully the player and those who sanctioned the transfer are removed in the near future and you can get back to supporting your team. I can't imagine how the girl, who's life was ruined by this piece of shit, is feeling now. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smpar Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 Think it's fair to say this decision has backfired massively on Raith and they have lost all control of the story. I also think they are legally hamstrung from saying very much. As the players employers, they have a duty to act in his interests, so I'm sure couldn't release a statement referring to the civil case found against him. I personally believe in rehabilitation and if you do, you can't really take the view that 'as long as it's not in my club, my sport, my league, something I care about' etc. Without speaking with the player it is tricky to know if he is remorseful or if he is worthy of rehabilitation. I'm not aware of any statement he has made to that end. My guess is Raith may well have to place the player on garden leave. Other point - I'm sure plenty of clubs have hired people with criminal convictions, burglary, assault etc. Be they players or staff. But suddenly there is a huge red line drawn at this? There seemed to be a fair bit of support for David Martindale, for example, who did jail time for organised crime and money laundering. Who knows what impact his actions would have had on people's lives, and what else may have happened that he wasn't convicted of. He pleaded not guilty and has faced no criminal proceedings, how can he be rehabilitated or demonstrate remorse? Yes, ‘suddenly’ there is a huge line drawn at rape. Others such as Martindale have accepted responsibility for their offences and have demonstrated insight into the ramifications and impact of their offences. Those are signs of rehabilitation. I like how you have pointed out that Martindale served a custodial sentence but still fail to see what the difference is between his case and this one. Surely you’re not that dense? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piehutt Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 1 minute ago, Gordon EF said: 2 minutes ago, Gordon EF said: It's not exactly mind-boggling that people react differently to different offences. Genocide is a bit different to shop-lifting a multi-pack of Quavers. People, pretty reasonably have different shades of 'disgust' at different crimes. Remorse is extremely important in these cases. Yes, someone like Martindale might have been a right c**t at some point. But he's taken his punishment, has been open and honest about his guilt and seems to be genuinely remorseful about it and has taken steps to improve as a person. That deserves some degree of admiration and suggests that he isn't actually a c**t any more and has worked on becoming a better person. Goodwillie hasn't done any of that. The only things I've ever seen him say about the whole case are how it's affected him. Which suggests he's still the same scummy c**t he always was when he raped someone. Don't disagree, but just making the point there will be other cases and other incidents that people take a different view on, and if you draw a line with Goodwillie, you surely have to draw a line with other cases. A lot of crime will have a devastating impact on people's lives and I'm sure people will have been hired and played for all of our clubs over the years with criminal records, cases that don't get to court but would if the victims were able to take it to a civil court. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellaboz Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 Is that really Gregory Tade welcoming him on the Rover's Facebook page?! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highlandmagar Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 6 minutes ago, RavyDavy said: Can you show me where I have defended David Goodwillie? I await your apology. Thanks Have you condemned him? If you haven't then you condone him! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoss Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 Anyways, so I missed this news until this morning. I've now had a cup of tea and an hour to think on it, and - while I already knew what my intellectual reaction to it would be - emotionally I'm more upset by it than I realised I was going to be. With an unfortunate handful of exceptions, I've been mostly reassured by the reactions on here skimming back through the past pages. Thank you to all the good Raith fans on here, the ones I've mostly chatted to over the years - too many to go back through the thread and list, but you know who you are. Most of you have deeper emotional commitments and connections to the club than I do, so I offer my genuine sympathies. And thanks to the fans of other clubs who have mostly posted on here in the right spirit rather than make it a pile-on. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post RH33 Posted February 1, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted February 1, 2022 I read bits of the court transcript but stopped, why? Because I'm a survivor and like the victim my case didn't make it to criminal court. I won't give details but the police requestion and requestion you on every detail of your statement. The trauma of that alone is horrific. I too was awarded a criminal injuries payment. I've been a football fan since I was small and gone to matches from Scottish schools, to Scotland to Ross County and highland leauge. My youngest daughter plays football. I refuse to even go to away county games while Mackay is in charge. Raith Rovers BoD and Manager have alienated their fans and probably will see away fans decide not to come and put money in the club. Val McDermott has already distanced herself as well. It will be heartbreaking for life long fans to see their club make such a horrific misstep. This morning the victim will have woken to see, once again, her rapists name splashed across the papers. Still being paid to play football. Thankfully, male and female, can see the faults in this and the mysoginy and lads lads seem to be a small minority. I once read that rape is the worst crime you can suffer and survive. 103 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highlandmagar Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 1 minute ago, Stellaboz said: Is that really Gregory Tade welcoming him on the Rover's Facebook page?! Probably been told to by scumbag McGlynn. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiG Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 1 minute ago, Stellaboz said: Is that really Gregory Tade welcoming him on the Rover's Facebook page?! He said on Twitter that Goodwillie is a "great guy" and "has made a few mistakes when he was a young boy". Here is his absolute nuke of a take: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Fifer Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 Not going to repeat what's been said in the numerous posts above. Agree with pretty much all of it other than the couple of weirdos. As an aside - where does it go from here do we think? Because I get the impression that the board have made an arse of this for themselves regardless of what happens. Ultimately if they came out in a couple of days saying "lads, we got it wrong" and then (just as an example) they terminated Goodwillie's contact, it doesn't exactly just go away does it? Huge questions would still need to be asked of the leadership of the club as to how the decision making process has failed so spectacularly on this. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biglichtie74 Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 I see John Mcglynn has made a popular decision lol, surely goodwillie more realisable than Lewis Vaughan? -4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike the Magyar Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 47 minutes ago, Shadwell Dog said: Football is the least moral sport out there. The game is littered with players found guilty of this that and the other and noone gives a feck. Declan Gallagher, Alan Lithgow, benedictus, McGowan at Dundee for example. Any individual out with football found guilty of some of those offences would be sacked straight away and would find it almost impossible just to pick up where they left off before the incident If the player is good at playing football some clubs and fans seem willing to put up with all sorts of dodgy characters . Feck sake benzema has been found guilty of blackmailing a teammate but is still playing for real every week with little fuss. The goodwillie case I think due to it being rape and the lack of any remorse is probably a step too far but you are right other clubs need to look at some of the folk they've happily signed without a fuss over the years. I think you’re right re: morals in the football game. See ; Gordon Strachan’s comments of a couple of years ago, regarding his opinion of morals in the game. Most football fans would be amazed/disappointed/stunned at how low the levels of mortality actually are and that will more than likely, have included their own club at some point. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiG Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 Raith Rovers SLO has resigned. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RavyDavy Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 6 minutes ago, Senor Bairn said: You're actually fucking thick hahahaha I'm fucking thick? Why? Do I agree with the signing? No, not really. Do I despair at the hysteria and hypocrisy? Yes. People don't like to be challenged on shit like that. One crime is more serious than others, but neither is excusable or welcome so why is Benedictus' history tolerated? He battered 2 blokes and verbally abused his ex partner to a point that she was shit scared.... That's pretty bad, no? The notion that it's OK because it's a lesser crime is frankly ridiculous. If you can't see that, then you are the one who is "fucking thick" -5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadwell Dog Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 14 minutes ago, FK1Bairn said: Kevin O'Hara admitted he'd done wrong, that's the difference So if goodwillie had said aye it was me sorry, you'd have been happy with him signing for us? Come on don't talk pish. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael W Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 This is an abject humiliation. And I don't think it's over yet. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoss Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 5 minutes ago, Yoss said: Anyways, so I missed this news until this morning. I've now had a cup of tea and an hour to think on it, and - while I already knew what my intellectual reaction to it would be - emotionally I'm more upset by it than I realised I was going to be. With an unfortunate handful of exceptions, I've been mostly reassured by the reactions on here skimming back through the past pages. Thank you to all the good Raith fans on here, the ones I've mostly chatted to over the years - too many to go back through the thread and list, but you know who you are. Most of you have deeper emotional commitments and connections to the club than I do, so I offer my genuine sympathies. And thanks to the fans of other clubs who have mostly posted on here in the right spirit rather than make it a pile-on. Oh, and I meant to add. Without going into detail my employers also have a financial relationship with the club. I have made my strength of feeling known to them and this is currently being reviewed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fife Saint Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 Wow. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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