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The New Raith Rovers Thread


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3 minutes ago, renton said:

I suppose the other argument is that maybe we weren't a good team to start with and this is a reversion to the mean after we got our two good months out of Dario Zanatta?

 

Yeah I think the smart money is on Zanatta being this season's Duku. A big player for the first couple of months but someone who will be next to useless for the rest of the season. 

The bad news is that unlike Duku he's on a two year deal..  

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4 minutes ago, renton said:

I suppose the other argument is that maybe we weren't a good team to start with and this is a reversion to the mean after we got our two good months out of Dario Zanatta?

 

Anyone who watched us earlier in the season could see we were a decent team. We weren’t free scoring but we were effective. Look how many games were 2-1 or 1-1. We can hold our own. We’re not world beaters but we’re decent enough. Just need to get that next win and kick on from there.

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It Griffiths was fit enough I'd have him on a short term deal. End of the season, and a chance to get himself in the shop window. Although I think finances would probably dictate otherwise. 

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22 minutes ago, Ro Sham Bo said:

Yeah I think the smart money is on Zanatta being this season's Duku. A big player for the first couple of months but someone who will be next to useless for the rest of the season. 

To be fair to you, that’s significantly more than anyone else has managed out of him. 

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Seems there are a few things that are wrong with us just now but one thing that definitely needs changing is the apparent requirement to play it from left to right or right to left through every single defender. By the time the full back (or in yesterdays case 3rd centre back) has shifted it through all the other centre backs the opposition have closed down the space on the opposite side. Crisper passing, longer balls (let the ball do the work) and miss out Bene or/and Berra and switch it quicker, there is a serious lack of pace to our game these days.  On a good flat surface we need to be zipping passes across the park not Musonda-Berra-Bene-Berra-Bene-Dick, by the time Dick has the ball the opposition are on top of him, miss out 2 central defenders, get the thing thumped right over the top to Tumilty and spread it wide. Too fucking slow, too fucking predictable.  Also not happy with fullbacks playing right on the touchline, ok they're using the width but they are hemmed in, their only option is inside and the opposition know it and close the space accordingly.

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Seems there are a few things that are wrong with us just now but one thing that definitely needs changing is the apparent requirement to play it from left to right or right to left through every single defender. By the time the full back (or in yesterdays case 3rd centre back) has shifted it through all the other centre backs the opposition have closed down the space on the opposite side. Crisper passing, longer balls (let the ball do the work) and miss out Bene or/and Berra and switch it quicker, there is a serious lack of pace to our game these days.  On a good flat surface we need to be zipping passes across the park not Musonda-Berra-Bene-Berra-Bene-Dick, by the time Dick has the ball the opposition are on top of him, miss out 2 central defenders, get the thing thumped right over the top to Tumilty and spread it wide. Too fucking slow, too fucking predictable.  Also not happy with fullbacks playing right on the touchline, ok they're using the width but they are hemmed in, their only option is inside and the opposition know it and close the space accordingly.


Fks sake…hate to say it….but I agree with all of this……bugger!
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Arbroath absolutely had the passing about the back worked out. Their players knew where it was going and closed us down quickly. Biggest concern around this was the rest of the team as it was being passed back and forward. As someone else said, Williamson, Stanton, Ross etc simply weren’t an option the majority of the time so it was 5 minutes of cross passing followed by a hopeful punt. 

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1 hour ago, roverthemoon said:

Arbroath absolutely had the passing about the back worked out. Their players knew where it was going and closed us down quickly. Biggest concern around this was the rest of the team as it was being passed back and forward. As someone else said, Williamson, Stanton, Ross etc simply weren’t an option the majority of the time so it was 5 minutes of cross passing followed by a hopeful punt. 

Why are we content to pass it in defence. The other players not showing enough to collect the ball or what. It was like watching a squad of strangers yesterday, and it’s been like that for a while. 

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No idea what time the players are meant to be training today but passed the ground at 12 no since of any Raith players just kids playing a game across the pitch. After yesterday I would have had them in all day and watching a run through of yesterday's game.

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Arbroath played us perfectly yesterday. When we had the back five in the first half, they didn't press the defence at all, they packed the midfield instead. That's why there was so much side-to-side in the back line. Each of our defenders always had lateral options that were clear and free but nothing in front of them, because the Arbroath forwards were picking up Matthews and Stanton instead of rushing the ball. 

There are ways to combat that, but we never found them (or particularly went looking for them). I think Stanton has the ability to come deep and start unpicking that approach, but he hasn't settled into that role yet. 

In the second half, once Berra went off and we reverted to the back four, Arbroath switched to a high press. With one less option in the back line, it's much easier to force mistakes. Wighton in particular gave the defenders no time. And that led to us going long more often than not, because the defence were panicked. It really was a masterclass in when to press and when not to. Campbell completely out-tacticked McGlynn. 

Someone else mentioned previously that Musonda and Tumilty were in each other's air, and I think that's a very astute observation. Musonda never looked settled on the right hand side of that defence. He seemed to be constantly caught in two minds about where he should be and what he should be doing. 

And to briefly touch on the obvious lack of shots at goal, I'm surprised at the waves of mercy being offered to Ethon Varian. Whilst Gullan offered very little, that's the kind of attacking performance we've seen five or six times in the last couple of months with Varian in the attacking role. I think it offers some mitigation for Varian and evidence that he's not at vault, but I don't see how it strengthens any sort of call for him to be brought back into the fold. We've now played three different strikers, of very different stripes, and none of them have managed two shots at goal in the same game. The problem lies elsewhere. 

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3 minutes ago, raith1974 said:

No idea what time the players are meant to be training today but passed the ground at 12 no since of any Raith players just kids playing a game across the pitch. After yesterday I would have had them in all day and watching a run through of yesterday's game.

They probably wouldn't be watching a run through of the game on the middle of the pitch, would they? 

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Arbroath played us perfectly yesterday. When we had the back five in the first half, they didn't press the defence at all, they packed the midfield instead. That's why there was so much side-to-side in the back line. Each of our defenders always had lateral options that were clear and free but nothing in front of them, because the Arbroath forwards were picking up Matthews and Stanton instead of rushing the ball. 
There are ways to combat that, but we never found them (or particularly went looking for them). I think Stanton has the ability to come deep and start unpicking that approach, but he hasn't settled into that role yet. 
In the second half, once Berra went off and we reverted to the back four, Arbroath switched to a high press. With one less option in the back line, it's much easier to force mistakes. Wighton in particular gave the defenders no time. And that led to us going long more often than not, because the defence were panicked. It really was a masterclass in when to press and when not to. Campbell completely out-tacticked McGlynn. 
Someone else mentioned previously that Musonda and Tumilty were in each other's air, and I think that's a very astute observation. Musonda never looked settled on the right hand side of that defence. He seemed to be constantly caught in two minds about where he should be and what he should be doing. 
And to briefly touch on the obvious lack of shots at goal, I'm surprised at the waves of mercy being offered to Ethon Varian. Whilst Gullan offered very little, that's the kind of attacking performance we've seen five or six times in the last couple of months with Varian in the attacking role. I think it offers some mitigation for Varian and evidence that he's not at vault, but I don't see how it strengthens any sort of call for him to be brought back into the fold. We've now played three different strikers, of very different stripes, and none of them have managed two shots at goal in the same game. The problem lies elsewhere. 
This. If I could give your post 2 likes I would.
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2 minutes ago, Raith Against The Machine said:

They probably wouldn't be watching a run through of the game on the middle of the pitch, would they? 

Aye okay but no sign of cars either. Too many smart arses on here. 

Maybe they should be out on the pitch learning to pass forward, far too many sideway passes and back passes, no penetration, no telling passes. 

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For me, that stagnant, back and forth passing amongst the backline was what made me think that a fit Brad Spencer would absolutely make a difference. We did it to a degree earlier in the season, but Spencer's willingness to take it off them, drive through the lines, support the forward thinking players and be an option for the advancing full backs meant it was never as pointless as it was yesterday. 

Now, I'm not saying everything will be rectified when he comes back, as the momentum will have been lost and confidence and form at far lower levels than when he was in the side, but he'd definitely improve us. 

I felt we did go a bit longer than usual than normal yesterday, and it didn't work at all, and while we were absolutely rancid, I'm not sure it's even our worst performance in the last few weeks, never mind years. Aye, we barely laid a glove on Arbroath, but getting absolutely pummelled by Ayr United takes a real special kind of awfulness, and if they'd been more clinical, we'd have suffered a pretty heavy gubbing at Somerset Park. At least Arbroath are good. 

I'm trying to take hope from the fact that Kilmarnock, Arbroath, Partick Thistle and Inverness have all had some difficult spells this season. 

Arbroath won three games in 10 between the end of September and start of December, Killie lost four in five not long ago, Inverness have three wins in 12 and Partick Thistle lost four in five earlier this season and are currently on a run of one win in five, so it's not as if our current form is completely out of the ordinary in this league, quite the opposite actually, our 15 game unbeaten run was the outlier rather than this. 

The big difference I'd suggest, is that none of those clubs have put in performances as inept as we have in the last few weeks, and I'd argue that those games against Ayr and yesterday were very much the kind of muck that the teams in the bottom half of the table have been offering up for the bulk of this campaign. That for me is far more concerning than the results. 

In short, I'm absolutely not confident that we'll end up in the top four, but I wouldn't be completely ruling it out just because we're in a rut, as everyone in this league has experienced something reasonably similar at some point. 

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I think the gaffer got it wrong yesterday with the formation. We had 3 or 5 at the back, no width, which meant there wasn’t really an attacking out ball. Especially when Arbroath were set up to be tight with everyone behind the ball.

That kind of set up is fine when we are away to ICT or Killie when we are probably going to be happy with a point but it’s nowhere near what’s required when we are at home in a game we need to win.

Get the wingers back, get the tempo raised and I think we will be fine. 

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14 minutes ago, Jilted John said:

I think the gaffer got it wrong yesterday with the formation. We had 3 or 5 at the back, no width, which meant there wasn’t really an attacking out ball. Especially when Arbroath were set up to be tight with everyone behind the ball.

That kind of set up is fine when we are away to ICT or Killie when we are probably going to be happy with a point but it’s nowhere near what’s required when we are at home in a game we need to win.

Get the wingers back, get the tempo raised and I think we will be fine. 

It’s motivating these players to get up the park and do it that’s the problem. 

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28 minutes ago, McGuigan1978 said:

For me, that stagnant, back and forth passing amongst the backline was what made me think that a fit Brad Spencer would absolutely make a difference. We did it to a degree earlier in the season, but Spencer's willingness to take it off them, drive through the lines, support the forward thinking players and be an option for the advancing full backs meant it was never as pointless as it was yesterday. 

Now, I'm not saying everything will be rectified when he comes back, as the momentum will have been lost and confidence and form at far lower levels than when he was in the side, but he'd definitely improve us. 

I felt we did go a bit longer than usual than normal yesterday, and it didn't work at all, and while we were absolutely rancid, I'm not sure it's even our worst performance in the last few weeks, never mind years. Aye, we barely laid a glove on Arbroath, but getting absolutely pummelled by Ayr United takes a real special kind of awfulness, and if they'd been more clinical, we'd have suffered a pretty heavy gubbing at Somerset Park. At least Arbroath are good. 

I'm trying to take hope from the fact that Kilmarnock, Arbroath, Partick Thistle and Inverness have all had some difficult spells this season. 

Arbroath won three games in 10 between the end of September and start of December, Killie lost four in five not long ago, Inverness have three wins in 12 and Partick Thistle lost four in five earlier this season and are currently on a run of one win in five, so it's not as if our current form is completely out of the ordinary in this league, quite the opposite actually, our 15 game unbeaten run was the outlier rather than this. 

The big difference I'd suggest, is that none of those clubs have put in performances as inept as we have in the last few weeks, and I'd argue that those games against Ayr and yesterday were very much the kind of muck that the teams in the bottom half of the table have been offering up for the bulk of this campaign. That for me is far more concerning than the results. 

In short, I'm absolutely not confident that we'll end up in the top four, but I wouldn't be completely ruling it out just because we're in a rut, as everyone in this league has experienced something reasonably similar at some point. 

A post with proper perspective and perception 👍

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43 minutes ago, Raith Against The Machine said:

And to briefly touch on the obvious lack of shots at goal, I'm surprised at the waves of mercy being offered to Ethon Varian. Whilst Gullan offered very little, that's the kind of attacking performance we've seen five or six times in the last couple of months with Varian in the attacking role. I think it offers some mitigation for Varian and evidence that he's not at vault, but I don't see how it strengthens any sort of call for him to be brought back into the fold. We've now played three different strikers, of very different stripes, and none of them have managed two shots at goal in the same game. The problem lies elsewhere. 

Yesterday was absolutely woeful in terms of service to forward players. It was long hopeful punts to the forwards. We’re not creating good chances. 

We don’t have players in that team who looks capable of getting 10 goals a season. That may be down to the service they are getting at the moment. I would have thought the likes of Ross and Gullan could be developed into those players, given the right level of service.

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48 minutes ago, raith1974 said:

Aye okay but no sign of cars either. Too many smart arses on here. 

Maybe they should be out on the pitch learning to pass forward, far too many sideway passes and back passes, no penetration, no telling passes. 

It was probably just bluster from McGlynn. I doubt they would have been in. 

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