The New Raith Rovers Thread

[R.R.FC]

14 minutes ago, roverthemoon said:

Are Rovers in midweek games the new equivalent of Rovers after the clocks go back?

To emphasise this point we have actually conceded more goals in 5 midweek games than we have in 12 weekend matches. Our record is:

Weekend

Played: 12    
Won: 8    
Drawn: 3   
Lost: 1   
Goals For: 30   
Goals Against: 13

Midweek

Played: 5   
Won: 0   
Drawn: 1   
Lost: 4   
Goals For: 5    
Goals Against: 16

Obviously there is more detail behind these games than just weekend/midweek but those stats are wild.

[baillieinleeds]

14 minutes ago, Hank Scorpio said:

I’m not sure I buy that Benedictus is “finished” to be honest. He’s been fine this year.

Be honest, he hasn’t been the same since his injury. He doesn’t commit like he did before injury. It’s great having a strong front line. But more importantly having a strong out ball. Those were always the hallmarks of Rovers teams in the past.  And yea I know, the past is the past. 

Edited February 4, 2021 by baillieinleeds

[Paco]

To be honest we could have two great centre backs and they’d still be left totally exposed at times. It’s a consequence of how we play. I’m mostly fine with it but it does lead to nights like last night now and then.

Hendry sits deep and helps fill gaps when he’s playing, and Matthews is very good at slotting in behind Tumilty/MacDonald when they’re flying up the wing. They weren’t there last night and that’s bound to be a part of why we were exposed time and time again.

Not that Davidson and Musonda played well. Davidson looked like a horse needing out of its misery at times. I can’t bring myself to watch the highlights but he looked miles behind the rest of the defence at the first goal. And it was definitely Musonda’s poorest game, didn’t look comfortable at all and I’ve no idea where he was for the second.

Can’t have all the attacking talent we have and not expect a bit to leave a bit of space for the opposition. Frustrating but we might show up and murder someone, anyone, on any given Saturday and that’s how we’re able to go 3-0 up at Tynecastle and score so many goals overall. It’s more exciting than a Grant Murray turgid 7th placed finish, I guess...

[baillieinleeds]

9 hours ago, TxRover said:

Except...Tait is likely out for a couple, Vaughan is nicked, Ugwu and Matthews are getting better but may not be ready to play, Bene is questionable and Davo is, unfortunately, mince.

I fear we are now really looking at Tumilty/Mendy/Musonda/KMac as our starting back four. While I like mendy and feel he's better than many give him credit, I'm not sure he's really ready for this level (and may never be). Bene is functional, if weak, at this level...Davo, as great as he has been for us for years, appears done. Not acquiring any CB assistance in the window was borderline criminal, and if they don't try to find a CB loan now, we are in deep trouble.

Tx, your unquestionable loyalty in Mendy is seriously tiresome. He will never be a first team player at Raith Rovers or for that matter any teams in league 2. Sorry man it’s the truth 

I do agree with your comments about Bene and Davo. 

Edited February 4, 2021 by baillieinleeds

[keyser_soze]

13 minutes ago, baillieinleeds said:

Tx, your unquestionable loyalty in Mendy is seriously tiresome. He will never be a first team player at Raith Rovers or for that matter any teams in league 2. Sorry man it’s the truth 

Hate to say it but I agree, really wanted him to succeed, seems a genuinely nice bloke, not the best player tho' and definitely not good enough for this level.

[baillieinleeds]

6 minutes ago, keyser_soze said:

Hate to say it but I agree, really wanted him to succeed, seems a genuinely nice bloke, not the best player tho' and definitely not good enough for this level.

Exactly, I really wanted him to succeed

[TxRover]

2 hours ago, baillieinleeds said:

Tx, your unquestionable loyalty in Mendy is seriously tiresome. He will never be a first team player at Raith Rovers or for that matter any teams in league 2. Sorry man it’s the truth 

I do agree with your comments about Bene and Davo. 

What unquestioned loyalty? Read what I said again, “While I like Mendy and feel he's better than many give him credit, I'm not sure he's really ready for this level (and may never be).” If that constitutes unquestioned loyalty, then my understanding of the Queen’s English is greatly in doubt!

We are about to face another likely crisis as we see the plodding carthorse (Davo, sadly) trying to fill in for the rhino (Bene since his injury, and not the Fantasia type of rhino) in a line that could really use a leopard. Mendy might be more of a warthog, but he’s mobile, moderately capable at this level and easily capable of playing at 100% all game. The defensive cupboard is bare, we’ve fired the ammo for attackers, and now face an uncertain future with a back line held together by spit and bailing wire.

Davo has had two layoffs, and a year of getting older, cut into his abilities and it is showing. I love him, but he’s not nearly the player he was even last year at this time. Bene is still capable of moderate or better play at this level, sometimes, but that’s it, unfortunately. Frankie would be a wonderful long term addition, but is likely to be poached. McKay is a question mark coming back from injury and Mendy is not the likely future starting CB. We need to sign at least one, preferably two, starting quality players at CB this summer, so why didn’t we find even a little support in this window (yet).

[Rovers1992/1993]

What unquestioned loyalty? Read what I said again, “While I like Mendy and feel he's better than many give him credit, I'm not sure he's really ready for this level (and may never be).” If that constitutes unquestioned loyalty, then my understanding of the Queen’s English is greatly in doubt!
We are about to face another likely crisis as we see the plodding carthorse (Davo, sadly) trying to fill in for the rhino (Bene since his injury, and not the Fantasia type of rhino) in a line that could really use a leopard. Mendy might be more of a warthog, but he’s mobile, moderately capable at this level and easily capable of playing at 100% all game. The defensive cupboard is bare, we’ve fired the ammo for attackers, and now face an uncertain future with a back line held together by spit and bailing wire.
Davo has had two layoffs, and a year of getting older, cut into his abilities and it is showing. I love him, but he’s not nearly the player he was even last year at this time. Bene is still capable of moderate or better play at this level, sometimes, but that’s it, unfortunately. Frankie would be a wonderful long term addition, but is likely to be poached. McKay is a question mark coming back from injury and Mendy is not the likely future starting CB. We need to sign at least one, preferably two, starting quality players at CB this summer, so why didn’t we find even a little support in this window (yet).

Anybody else get a migraine after reading this?

Why are you going on about Rhinos, Leopards and Warthogs?

[baillieinleeds]

1 hour ago, TxRover said:

What unquestioned loyalty? Read what I said again, “While I like Mendy and feel he's better than many give him credit, I'm not sure he's really ready for this level (and may never be).” If that constitutes unquestioned loyalty, then my understanding of the Queen’s English is greatly in doubt!

We are about to face another likely crisis as we see the plodding carthorse (Davo, sadly) trying to fill in for the rhino (Bene since his injury, and not the Fantasia type of rhino) in a line that could really use a leopard. Mendy might be more of a warthog, but he’s mobile, moderately capable at this level and easily capable of playing at 100% all game. The defensive cupboard is bare, we’ve fired the ammo for attackers, and now face an uncertain future with a back line held together by spit and bailing wire.

Davo has had two layoffs, and a year of getting older, cut into his abilities and it is showing. I love him, but he’s not nearly the player he was even last year at this time. Bene is still capable of moderate or better play at this level, sometimes, but that’s it, unfortunately. Frankie would be a wonderful long term addition, but is likely to be poached. McKay is a question mark coming back from injury and Mendy is not the likely future starting CB. We need to sign at least one, preferably two, starting quality players at CB this summer, so why didn’t we find even a little support in this window (yet).

 

I got that part about Mendy not being ready for the league. But you do consider him a talent nonetheless. 

[TxRover]

33 minutes ago, baillieinleeds said:

I got that part about Mendy not being ready for the league. But you do consider him a talent nonetheless. 

Mendy would likely do fine at League One or Two level. He is (currently) makeshift at this level, and may not ever be ready to be an everyday starter. Never the less, we have won with him playing at this level, so there is some level of ability...however, at his age, the additional upside is questionable. I still believe he might be a better defensive mid/sweeper.

[Scottydog]

Regarding our showing last night. Thought that Abraham, Vaughan, Kennedy, Tait, K Mac and Musonda were all piss poor, everyone else in navy blue was merely bang  average. Wouldn’t single out Davo as particularly rotten though, other than deflecting the ball of his arse for the 4th as far as I saw he did very little wrong.

1st goal came from a great pass that tooK Musonda out of the play, maybe his losing MacHunchback was a wee bit questionable though. 
2nd goal was primarily Musonda again as he passed the ball to Comrie then failed to stop him breaking forward. Thought K McDonald could have done more too.

3rd goal, great free kick but K Mac wants an arse kicking for conceding it there.
4th you can slate Davo for the deflection but Tumilty needs to do better in stopping Fraser getting the ball on to his stronger foot.

Not having Hendry or Matthews available affected us more than Saturday, team balance looks off.

[TxRover]

4 hours ago, Scottydog said:

Regarding our showing last night. Thought that Abraham, Vaughan, Kennedy, Tait, K Mac and Musonda were all piss poor, everyone else in navy blue was merely bang  average. Wouldn’t single out Davo as particularly rotten though, other than deflecting the ball of his arse for the 4th as far as I saw he did very little wrong.

1st goal came from a great pass that tooK Musonda out of the play, maybe his losing MacHunchback was a wee bit questionable though. 
2nd goal was primarily Musonda again as he passed the ball to Comrie then failed to stop him breaking forward. Thought K McDonald could have done more too.

3rd goal, great free kick but K Mac wants an arse kicking for conceding it there.
4th you can slate Davo for the deflection but Tumilty needs to do better in stopping Fraser getting the ball on to his stronger foot.

Not having Hendry or Matthews available affected us more than Saturday, team balance looks off.

Except for the fact that Davo was playing people onside in damn near every Pars highlight I saw.

[Scottydog]

42 minutes ago, TxRover said:

Except for the fact that Davo was playing people onside in damn near every Pars highlight I saw.

Would you rather he played on the last man's shoulder? His lack of pace would see him undone 9/10.

Whether or not you've managed to see Davidson playing opposition men onside in highlights is really neither here nor there. The simple fact is that we lost because we shipped 4 goals none (in my opinion) that he was at fault for. For the 1st goal Musonda lost his man and neither he nor MacDonald were quick enough to get back. Feel like I'm repeating myself here but for the second goal Musonda plays a poor pass and the guy runs 40 yards from his own half down the Raith left (Musonda & MacDonalds side).  Goal 3 is a free kick and No 4 is the afore mentioned deflection after Fraser had been allowed to dribble his way into a shooting position.

I fail to see your why you're getting your panties in a bunch when all 4 of their goals scored came from other players mistakes even at best only the 1st goal could be in any way attributed to Davo playing McManus on, true though that undeniably is it's totally ignoring that both Musonda and MacDonald switched off and lost MacManus who had ghosted in behind both. 

Davo is not the best centre back option if both Bene and Musonda are fit but he is the best back up we have (and by some measure), to suggest in any way that he was culpable for last nights defeat is absurd.

 

[R.R.FC]

Not making excuses for him because he was very poor but worth remembering that was Davo’s first 90 mins since the win at Queens in October. That can’t be easy at 38 years old away to the 2nd best team in the league.

It was also the first match Davo and Musonda have started together at centre back so the understanding with each other on where to hold the line and how each other play won’t have been there.

I’m pretty sure Davo isn’t good enough to be a regular starter for a team chasing the play offs in the Championship. He probably knows that himself but he remains a comfortably better option than Mendy. 

Edited February 4, 2021 by R.R.FC

[RRFC1989]

Not making excuses for him because he was very poor but worth remembering that was Davo’s first 90 mins since the win at Queens in October. That can’t be easy at 38 years old away to the 2nd best team in the league.

True but he was a liability before his injury. We’ve got a squad that could do something special but the only area I worry about is centre back. Musonda has been a great acquisition but he needs a well suited partner. Whilst I was delighted to see Gullan come back, I would have preferred a CB. The shutdown on league’s 1 and 2 hasn’t helped as i’d of hoped we could have sent 1 or 2 out on loan to support bringing in a better defender.

[CALDERON]

King is the strange signing in hindsight.  Gullan and Kennedy are not the types of players that we can turn down, however King was something of a luxury signing to add a bit of strength and depth.  If one area needed strength and depth, its the area of the pitch that has been costing us goals and points on a relatively consistent basis in the past 4 years.  

[R.R.FC]

50 minutes ago, RRFC1989 said:

True but he was a liability before his injury. We’ve got a squad that could do something special but the only area I worry about is centre back. Musonda has been a great acquisition but he needs a well suited partner. Whilst I was delighted to see Gullan come back, I would have preferred a CB. The shutdown on league’s 1 and 2 hasn’t helped as i’d of hoped we could have sent 1 or 2 out on loan to support bringing in a better defender.

I genuinely don’t think he has been that bad but I accept I have always been more of a fan of Davo than most. The games he played before his injury were the wins over East Fife, QOS and Arbroath then the draw at Dundee and defeat at Tynecastle. He was reasonably solid in most of those.

He started last season terribly but after Steven Anderson signed he was much improved. Even when Anderson was out injured he continued to play well but that may just have been me.

I think he’ll retire at the end of the season and he’s not good enough to be a regular starter for a Championship play off contender but I don’t think he’s quite as bad as made out but I accept I am very much in the minority there.

As @Paco mentioned yesterday, our defensive issues aren’t solely down to our centre backs and it would be naive to think if we replaced Bene/Davo we would suddenly stop losing goals although it may help. We all love how many goals we score this season with 2 attack minded wide players and full backs who bomb forward but the consequence of that is it often leaves us exposed defensively particularly when we don’t have the midfield protection of Hendry and Matthews.

It is a risk/reward situation and it is worth persevering with because when we are on form, we are really enjoyable to watch but we will never be the most defensively solid team in the league. An ideal centre half for this Rovers team would be good on the ball, with great pace and good positional sense to cover the full back areas and physically strong because we lack that in other areas of the pitch. Unfortunately, centre backs with those attributes, willing to play in the Scottish Championship and the Rovers are very rare.

TL;DR version - I don’t think Bene/Davo are as bad as made out, we could probably do better but the way we play will always leave us open and exposed to conceding goals.

[Brashy's Boots]

True but he was a liability before his injury. We’ve got a squad that could do something special but the only area I worry about is centre back. Musonda has been a great acquisition but he needs a well suited partner. Whilst I was delighted to see Gullan come back, I would have preferred a CB. The shutdown on league’s 1 and 2 hasn’t helped as i’d of hoped we could have sent 1 or 2 out on loan to support bringing in a better defender.

Musonda didn't look such a great acquisition on Wednesday night, culpable in 2 of the goals and generally ponderous with or without the ball. He started his time with us superbly but doesn't look quite the same player he was. See also Duku. Next year's contracts, away from Stark's, on their minds?

[L. Brilliant]

13 hours ago, Scottydog said:

Would you rather he played on the last man's shoulder? His lack of pace would see him undone 9/10.

 

The obvious point is that he should be in line with the rest of the defence and if he's captain I think holding him responsible for that is fair.

[L. Brilliant]

If he can play in front of the defence and offer a bit of protection then I think it makes plenty of sense. Some of our central defenders have obvious weaknesses but near enough any CB looks bad when they're left exposed. 

Edited February 5, 2021 by L. Brilliant
Oops this was a reply to Calderon re King