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The New Raith Rovers Thread


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13 hours ago, Rovers_Lad said:

Theres a possibility we,re doing   better than expected because we,ve no fans in the ground moaning and groaning 😜

 

That game last night was crying out for a crescendo of boos ringing round the South Stand as the players trudge off. How else will they know we are displeased?

I suppose we could ask for speech bubbles for the cardboard fans, with things like ‘Booooo!’, ‘change it McGlynn!’ and the likes.

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Post disclaimer: amateur tactical wankery follows.

 

So, at the moment we basically play something that might be described as a 4-1-2-2-1, or to use the more common terms a 4-1-4-1

Hendry sits at the base and plays like a deep lying play maker with Tait and Matthews usually in front of him, two out and out wide players with freedom to roam and switch sides and one proper centre forward.

But what happens if the other team tries to remain compact and press Hendry when he comes forward with it? 

Would it make sense to invert the midfield triangle and have another playmaker alongside Hendry? Make it harder for other sides to spare the men to press him tightly?

Could you play something like a 4-2-3-1 with Spencer sitting alongside Hendry. Spencer has a decent range of passing and particularly decent at hitting the longer diagonals.

Let Matthews stay further up with a role of recycling the ball in possession and pressing their midfield when out of possession.

Maybe use Lokotsch in place of Ross or Armstrong. Spencer hitting the ball on into him might give us another way through the press?

Would maybe make our shape similar to how we played last year.

Probably a lot of bullshit mind you.

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That wasn’t just poor last night, it was Locke/Hughes style bad. Where on earth did it come from?

Is it just what happens in the Championship? Most teams seem to have had shockers at some point. Hopefully it turns out to be little more than our turn. But it’s hard not to be completely alarmed by just how bad we played.

We seem to have been struggling to create chances for a good few games now, aside from randomly rattling five goals past Alloa. And it’s worth saying that we’ve played two teams twice now, ICT and Queens, and both beat us 2-0 second time around. We play good football but it’s not especially complicated and I do wonder if, unlike League 1, you need to mix it up a lot more regularly to avoid being predictable.

Unfortunately I’m not sure exactly how we do it with the squad we have. We’re really missing a player like Vaughan who can be moved around the attacking areas, or even a winger to bring off the bench when it isn’t working for Ross/Armstrong. Tait’s been off the boil for weeks now but we seem reluctant to start Spencer in his place. 3-5-2 would probably be a good option but currently it likely means playing Mendy, which I think has to be avoided where possible, and Lokotsch disappears after a few more games.

Hopefully last night was little more than a hiccup. It might’ve just been one too many players out. It might be that we’re a bit predictable. It might be us finding our level. Or, hopefully, it was just one of those nights.

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13 minutes ago, renton said:

Post disclaimer: amateur tactical wankery follows.

 

So, at the moment we basically play something that might be described as a 4-1-2-2-1, or to use the more common terms a 4-1-4-1

Hendry sits at the base and plays like a deep lying play maker with Tait and Matthews usually in front of him, two out and out wide players with freedom to roam and switch sides and one proper centre forward.

But what happens if the other team tries to remain compact and press Hendry when he comes forward with it? 

Would it make sense to invert the midfield triangle and have another playmaker alongside Hendry? Make it harder for other sides to spare the men to press him tightly?

Could you play something like a 4-2-3-1 with Spencer sitting alongside Hendry. Spencer has a decent range of passing and particularly decent at hitting the longer diagonals.

Let Matthews stay further up with a role of recycling the ball in possession and pressing their midfield when out of possession.

Maybe use Lokotsch in place of Ross or Armstrong. Spencer hitting the ball on into him might give us another way through the press?

Would maybe make our shape similar to how we played last year.

Probably a lot of bullshit mind you.

See, I'd categorise our current system as a 4-2-3-1. Matthews and Hendry sit deeper than the other three. You could certainly replace Matthews with Spencer to try and provide some more creativity from deep, but you're going to lose a lot of the dig and industry out of the midfield. 

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Just now, Raith Against The Machine said:

See, I'd categorise our current system as a 4-2-3-1. Matthews and Hendry sit deeper than the other three. You could certainly replace Matthews with Spencer to try and provide some more creativity from deep, but you're going to lose a lot of the dig and industry out of the midfield. 

Matthews gets everywhere to be fair so I may well be wrong about where his starting position tends to be. I'd keep him in there, in a more advanced position. I just think an extra playmaker might help us when Hendry is being closed out of the game.

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Last night was dreadful make no mistake about it but I’m not sure it warrants immediately ripping up everything that has worked so well for us this season. We definitely lack a plan B (aside from sticking 3 big lumps up front and shelling it 60 yards to them which we saw last night).

Without Vaughan, the only real option we have to change things is a 3-5-2 when MacDonald returns. However, I think Ross and Armstrong, in particular, have been excellent this season, last night aside, so I wouldn’t be in any rush to try that right now. 

I understand the frustrations that we have lost to the 2 teams we have played twice and people fear we have been ‘worked out’. However, every team in the league does video analysis and watches tapes of their opponents previous games before they play. Obviously it’s easier when you have faced each other directly but I would be stunned if any manager in this league was so poorly prepared as to not have watched us on video several times and know exactly how we’d play even in the first round of fixtures. With the new signings improving the team we are certainly better than last season but we haven’t really changed much in our style of play. The basic principles and approach are still there, I don’t think anyone who watched us last season would be surprised at how we have tried to play this season.

The panic is understandable given just how bad we were last night, particularly given the opposition (sorry Queen of the South fans!). Especially added to the tough run of games in January. However, I would not quite press the panic button yet. Hopefully we get a big reaction on Saturday and last night will be quickly forgotten.

 

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Our game is normally short and sharp, using the full width of the park keeping the ball and recycling it when nothing is on.
For what ever reason last night we hardly played the ball back to Robbie to keep the ball which we do when MacDonald is in goals, this normally pulls players out of position and gives us space to drop into and start another move.
I'm putting last night into a bad day at the office catagory, I lost count of the times we picked the wrong pass or didn't play the pass that should have been made then lost the ball when we were up the park.
Last nights result might just (hopefully) re-focus us or be the kick up the arse we needed.

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1 hour ago, renton said:

Matthews gets everywhere to be fair so I may well be wrong about where his starting position tends to be. I'd keep him in there, in a more advanced position. I just think an extra playmaker might help us when Hendry is being closed out of the game.

You're right about Matthews. He's certainly not averse to driving forward and into the attacking areas. I suppose nominally it's a 4-2-3-1 but Hendry is definitely static while Matthews is more box-to-box. 

The personnel we've got really don't leave us much room to change. We've got three strikers so we shouldn't have to commit wholeheartedly to the one up front, but Lokotsch and Duku are carbon copies of each other in terms of approach. Ugwu could possibly be a second striker and provide variety, but I haven't seen enough of him to say that with any confidence. 

To facilitate two strikers, you've got two options. Withdraw either Matthews or Tait from the middle and go to a 4-4-2. That either leaves you with a lightweight midfield duo or the same pair we've got at the moment. I don't see it working, or being something John McGlynn is likely to try. 

The alternative is going back to the 3-4-1-2 that we saw last season. It  means keeping Nando and bringing Musonda across into the centre of defence (although maybe that's what Mendy needs?). I think it brings the best out of MacDonald and I imagine Tumilty would be effective at wing back too. All things being equal, it's the system I enjoy watching the most, and I think it's the most realistic alternative we've got in terms of providing a coherent attack.

Edited by Raith Against The Machine
Stupidity
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7 hours ago, Paco said:

That wasn’t just poor last night, it was Locke/Hughes style bad. Where on earth did it come from?

Actually, the comparison that worries most is to Murray's second season. Started like a freight train, played some nice stuff, tailed off around Christmas. Went 21 games with no wins and survived by the skin of our teeth in the end...

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6 hours ago, Specky Ginger said:

I'd imagine there's going to have to be a change in personnel pretty soon as a good few of our players, mainly midfielders, must be sailing pretty close to the wind in terms of yellow cards. 

Armstrong, Hendry and Matthews all on 3 league yellows.

Tumilty and Tait 2

Musonda, Mendy, K MacDonald and Benedictus 1

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2 hours ago, renton said:

Actually, the comparison that worries most is to Murray's second season. Started like a freight train, played some nice stuff, tailed off around Christmas. Went 21 games with no wins and survived by the skin of our teeth in the end...

Yes, but that was under Murray. Even that one season (2011/12) with McGlynn where it started off going pear-shaped, we ended it on fire.

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