The New Raith Rovers Thread

[R.R.FC]

17 minutes ago, Rovers1992/1993 said:

I’d imagine the majority of the players will have in their contracts, a promotion clause.

I’d be surprised if Flanagan is here next season.

Dingwall, Murray, Gillespie, Nisbet and Vaughan is an excellent spine to have to the team for next season.

Thomson and Lyness are probably as good as we’re going to get keeperwise for next season. McGlynn has to stick with a keeper though. None of this swapping keepers every week. Thomson is number one for me.

Bene is a difficult one. I’d probably offload him as well providing we can get a couple of CH’s of better quality.

Am I missing a player or 2 that are signed up?

Yeah, you would think so. As far as I can see Lyness is the only one where it is publicly stated there is a promotion clause but I’d imagine there will be a few others. 

I think your list is correct regarding the senior players. Not sure about the youngsters apart from Jamie Watson. He signed a two year deal last summer but I can’t see him being a regular starter.

[raith1974]

We cannot rely on Lewis Vaughan to win us the league next season. For a start he will probably be playing catch up at the start of the season to get match fit and he may break down again.

For me Davidson has to go, never been impressed with his attitude. Wedderburn to go just too slow and is unable to get in positions to chip in with goals which midfielders must do. Bene another that has gone backwards. Matthews may be a product of our youth but I still struggle to see what position he could command and I think managers are the same. Flannigan and Dingwall can both go along with Duggan who is just too injury prone.

For me we need a couple of commanding centre halfs, and a midfield that will win the initial battle but then take us forward. Finally but McGlynn plays boring football and has shown this season that he just doesn't have it. I would love to see fresh new blood come in and no one with a Raith connection. We need to move on. In the summer I thought Barry Robson would be a great choice. He also comes with great contacts in the game.

[basher brash]

4 hours ago, Big Fifer said:

I would be astonished if Raith took a punt on Tonks this summer. He's had a good season with us and the fans love him, but he hasn't scored THAT many to justify Raith paying us a fee for him. There's not enough evidence that he's an upgrade on Duggan. I'm not surprised by the rumours of McGlynn looking at a hybrid/Arbroath model because the worst full time players model isn't working.

Out of interest (and ignorance I suppose), why are Raith fans so opposed to going part-time for a season or two to get back up to the championship? Is there concern that it might start/continue a downward spiral? Or the possible complications of getting promoted and having to go full time again? Your crowds are double the next best in this league, you'd have the finances to get the best part time players for sure. 

IMO maybe last year the Fans wanted to maintain full time status however this season has been a total disaster and I believe most Rovers fans won’t mind if we are PT, or a mix of PT/ FT because the stuff we have had to endure this season from so called full time professionals have been embarrassing at times in terms of lacking desire, commitment, fight  and basic footballing skills in regards to set pieces throw ins etc. I have watched other teams who are part time play far far better than ourselves which includes East Fife who have owned us this year and I think it will be more of the same in the next few weeks

[grumswall]

I’d imagine the majority of the players will have in their contracts, a promotion clause.

I’d be surprised if Flanagan is here next season.

Dingwall, Murray, Gillespie, Nisbet and Vaughan is an excellent spine to have to the team for next season.

Thomson and Lyness are probably as good as we’re going to get keeperwise for next season. McGlynn has to stick with a keeper though. None of this swapping keepers every week. Thomson is number one for me.

Bene is a difficult one. I’d probably offload him as well providing we can get a couple of CH’s of better quality.

Am I missing a player or 2 that are signed up?

Mcglynn said in one of his interviews recently he was rotating the keepers so he could better gauge who should be no1. I find it pretty telling with Lyness that St mirren fans said he could easily be a championship level keeper, but looks worse than Thomson. I wouldn't be adverse to Lyness moving on in the summer regardless of the league we are in.

Should davo be offered a new contract, then we need to move bene on as they can't play together. I wouldn't mind them both leaving and having Murray as a cb next season with mckay as another option. We have to get a natural rb and lb in, in the summer. Watson is already signed on and valentine would provide depth at lb, but they can't be expected to start every game.

Gillespie quite clearly has the ability to be a standout at this level but really has flattered to deceive most of the time. I like Nat as a player and would be happy if he stayed. He has a very good "football brain" and often picks out a pass few others could at this level. He is slow and imobile but definitely could do a job next season with the right players beside him. Matthews should be kept as he is a good enough player for this level and has shown in the past he is competent in the championship. Dingwall started well but has fell flat but in a mcglynn team his work rate will see him right for next season.

Nisbet is the only St I would keep for next season. I haven't seen enough of Jack Smith but he strikes me as being in the mould of a bryce or Graham when mcglynn was here previously. Buchanan needs to move on, can't fault his effort every week but he's not done the one thing he was brought to the club to do, score goals. He's very wasteful with chances, probably from being completely misused the past two seasons. Vaughan is a no brainer and is, if fit the best player in the league.

[basher brash]

3 hours ago, FullTimePint said:

We are surviving because we have scaled the club to do so, we sign players for our budget, and have made concessions (plastic pitch, fully part time etc etc) As a result of that we have our bad seasons and our good seasons. You are right that this season comparatively we are having a good year, but the shouts for Young to go haven't subsided completely as some fans are never happy (i blame the sea air at new bayview) 

My point is this, there was a crazy time when we didnt scale the club properly (we have been through it twice with two questionable owners) where money and financial planning went out the window and we pushed for players on unsustainable budgets in search of promotions. We paid the price of that with the terrible seasons/relegations that followed as we recovered.

I dont know the financial position of Raith (does anyone?) but, that playing squad in year one in our league was very strong, and i would assume highly paid for the league. No promotion

Roll the dice in year 2 with a strong squad, no promotion.

If you guys stay down, then not only do you need to assemble a title winning squad, which with respect will require a clearout, but there is also the 2 years worth of unsustainable spend to account for, surely there must be budget pressures even for trying to sign the best PT players? The hybrid model may be the way forward, but its not as easy as 'just sign better part-time players'.

When you are signing decent full time players for the lower leagues, you are up against probably only championship teams. When you want to sign decent part-time players, you are up against 2 leagues worth of clubs (not all of them are necessarily skint), and championship teams who can offer them FT status.,. you need the work done early. Airdrie last year spent decent cash on proven PT players at our level, they arent even in a playoff place.

Im interested in whats happening at Raith, mainly from  a football point of view, because its is interesting!!  but you are also right  i like derbies (this year has been as entertaining on and off the pitch than any i can remember) 

 

Think you will find it’s a smaller squad from last year who most took wage cuts this season so it’s hardly rolling a dice as both managers were given a budget and had to stick to it ,For the first 7 games of the season our bench was full  17-18 year olds because of injuries hardly a team with piles of cash .Why do we have to re- build? unless there’s players with release clauses we have approx 7  full time players signed up for next season which I’m guessing the remainder will be part time.  You quoted Airdrie as a failure regarding big spenders look at there average gate 700 and ours 1500 at least this season so technically the standard of part time player we can afford will be slightly better than anyone else in the league

 

[Rovers1992/1993]

Mcglynn said in one of his interviews recently he was rotating the keepers so he could better gauge who should be no1. I find it pretty telling with Lyness that St mirren fans said he could easily be a championship level keeper, but looks worse than Thomson. I wouldn't be adverse to Lyness moving on in the summer regardless of the league we are in.

Should davo be offered a new contract, then we need to move bene on as they can't play together. I wouldn't mind them both leaving and having Murray as a cb next season with mckay as another option. We have to get a natural rb and lb in, in the summer. Watson is already signed on and valentine would provide depth at lb, but they can't be expected to start every game.

Gillespie quite clearly has the ability to be a standout at this level but really has flattered to deceive most of the time. I like Nat as a player and would be happy if he stayed. He has a very good "football brain" and often picks out a pass few others could at this level. He is slow and imobile but definitely could do a job next season with the right players beside him. Matthews should be kept as he is a good enough player for this level and has shown in the past he is competent in the championship. Dingwall started well but has fell flat but in a mcglynn team his work rate will see him right for next season.

Nisbet is the only St I would keep for next season. I haven't seen enough of Jack Smith but he strikes me as being in the mould of a bryce or Graham when mcglynn was here previously. Buchanan needs to move on, can't fault his effort every week but he's not done the one thing he was brought to the club to do, score goals. He's very wasteful with chances, probably from being completely misused the past two seasons. Vaughan is a no brainer and is, if fit the best player in the league.

I’d agree with most of that apart from Wedderburn.

If you’re going to keep Gillespie, you can’t keep Wedderburn as that partnership just does not work. It hasn’t worked at all this season. Why would it work next season.

I’ve seen so many players use the word ‘tidy’ to describe his play. That doesn’t win you the league. For his size he gets pushed off the ball far too easily. His decision making is poor at the best of times as well. I’d get rid of him.

[grumswall]

I’d agree with most of that apart from Wedderburn.

If you’re going to keep Gillespie, you can’t keep Wedderburn as that partnership just does not work. It hasn’t worked at all this season. Why would it work next season.

I’ve seen so many players use the word ‘tidy’ to describe his play. That doesn’t win you the league. For his size he gets pushed off the ball far too easily. His decision making is poor at the best of times as well. I’d get rid of him.

I agree as a partnership they haven't worked. Matthews is too similar to both to form an effective partnership aswell. I would keep Nat before I kept Gillespie. I'd rather a solid performer most weeks than one who shows up 1 in 5. That was the point I was intending to make but never quite got around to making. I won't get into the specifics of why I'd keep Nat, as I know he is a very marmite type of player. I just think he is more consistent and for all his bad passes etc he is the only one trying to crack open the opposition from a deeper position. With the right players around him he could be the perfect anchorman in midfield at this level.

[Scary Bear]

1 hour ago, raith1974 said:

We cannot rely on Lewis Vaughan to win us the league next season. For a start he will probably be playing catch up at the start of the season to get match fit and he may break down again.

For me Davidson has to go, never been impressed with his attitude. Wedderburn to go just too slow and is unable to get in positions to chip in with goals which midfielders must do. Bene another that has gone backwards. Matthews may be a product of our youth but I still struggle to see what position he could command and I think managers are the same. Flannigan and Dingwall can both go along with Duggan who is just too injury prone.

For me we need a couple of commanding centre halfs, and a midfield that will win the initial battle but then take us forward. Finally but McGlynn plays boring football and has shown this season that he just doesn't have it. I would love to see fresh new blood come in and no one with a Raith connection. We need to move on. In the summer I thought Barry Robson would be a great choice. He also comes with great contacts in the game.

Who are you actually keeping?

The only players I would be fussed about keeping are Nisbet, Murray and Vaughan, although given the injury issues Vaughan has, I agree it’s a mad idea to plan a title winning season around him. While it’s nice that Murray is a utility player, it would be good to find his best position. They are all signed up for next season. So two and a half players. Might need a bit of a rebuild if we went with my approach.

Bene and Dingwall are signed up for next season. Duggan was coming on to a game before he got injured but he’s only signed until the end of the season. Who else is signed up for next season? 

Edited March 18, 2019 by Scary Bear

[CALDERON]

2 hours ago, Angusfifer said:

The hybrid model does not work, as we have found out on more than one occasion in the past at Bayview.

So go for it my Lino friends...

We won this league, stayed up and reached a Scottish Cup Semi Final the season after, and almost won the league the season after that whilst running a hybrid model (under Mcglynn) 

It's not ideal, but it absolutely can work. 

Mcgurn, Ferry, Campbell, Hill - 4 players who do payed a huge part in our success and all were part time. 

 

[FullTimePint]

42 minutes ago, basher brash said:

Think you will find it’s a smaller squad from last year who most took wage cuts this season so it’s hardly rolling a dice as both managers were given a budget and had to stick to it ,For the first 7 games of the season our bench was full  17-18 year olds because of injuries hardly a team with piles of cash .Why do we have to re- build? unless there’s players with release clauses we have approx 7  full time players signed up for next season which I’m guessing the remainder will be part time.  You quoted Airdrie as a failure regarding big spenders look at there average gate 700 and ours 1500 at least this season so technically the standard of part time player we can afford will be slightly better than anyone else in the league

 

If you guys haven't made a decent cumulative loss for the last 2 years staying full time, then absolutely the hybrid model will allow you guys to throw the cash at P/t players. 1-1.5k home support is decent for any team outwith the prem,  but it seems like it is definitely a crossroads season next year if you cant get up through the playoffs this year.

If you go hybrid, its a tough one to get right. Spreading the cash over p/t players might offer a fuller squad to avoid you playing the 17-18 year olds, but I think you miss my point re Airdire. The size of their home gate doesnt determine the success of the part-time players. They signed a good group, on good money, based on performances last year, most of their players wouldnt have been short on offers this year, but for whatever reason they couldnt make it work. Arbroath are part-time but they have had a fairly settled team for 2-3 years now. They finished fourth last year and built on that. Having cash to throw at part-time players doesnt guarantee they will be good, and if you get it wrong again this year with a hybrid model - what next?

If you want a title winning team, then you need the squad balance to be right, the key players to consistently showing up, and the rub of the green injury wise. You guys havent got that right for the last two years. If your team cant get the mix of Full time pros balanced, why would they magically be able to do it with part-time players?

[CALDERON]

It gets quite scary if you look at the options for the squad format next season.

- Full time football with in depth squad and quality players

- Full time football with reduced squad, hoping that players stay injury and suspension free

- Full time supplemented with part time players to add depth

- Part time football

I would imagine given our financial situation that the first option isn’t really doable, it’s a gamble anyway – so its take your pick from the other 3 – none of which are ideal.

If we can afford it, full time football is the way to go. But it has to be done properly. Its not a magic wand and it does not guarantee anything – there is still a heavily reliance on having a good enough squad who don’t make stupid mistakes. Being full time and having, for example, an absolutely fucking shite defence is just absolutely pointless. 

For what its worth, if we can sort the defence out I think that will go a long way to helping us. We are top scorers in the league, with the top individual goal scorer. And we are 15 points off the pace. A decent defence supplemented with players who aren’t soft as shite please. 

[Rovers_Lad]

2 hours ago, grumswall said:

3 hours ago, Rovers1992/1993 said:

I’d agree with most of that apart from Wedderburn.

If you’re going to keep Gillespie, you can’t keep Wedderburn as that partnership just does not work. It hasn’t worked at all this season. Why would it work next season.

I’ve seen so many players use the word ‘tidy’ to describe his play. That doesn’t win you the league. For his size he gets pushed off the ball far too easily. His decision making is poor at the best of times as well. I’d get rid of him.

I agree as a partnership they haven't worked. Matthews is too similar to both to form an effective partnership aswell. I would keep Nat before I kept Gillespie. I'd rather a solid performer most weeks than one who shows up 1 in 5. That was the point I was intending to make but never quite got around to making. I won't get into the specifics of why I'd keep Nat, as I know he is a very marmite type of player. I just think he is more consistent and for all his bad passes etc he is the only one trying to crack open the opposition from a deeper position. With the right players around him he could be the perfect anchorman in midfield at this level.

With you regards Nat

[South Stand Dynamo]

Hello, long-time lurker, first-time poster.

To throw my tuppance into this debate, I feel that a move to a hybrid system is an absolute must if we are going to build a stronger squad for next season.

Historically, the full-time side usually wins this league (notable exceptions aside), but it has been proven that we are working at such a low bar of FT player, that almost any advantage has gone when you compare to a solid team like Arbroath who have built this side over 3 seasons.

Without taking their contract information to be impeccably accurate, a quick snifter on transfermarkt shows there are a lot of decent PT players out of contract in May, a fair few of which have stood out against us over the past 2 seasons.

Players like Kyle Turner, Aaron Dunsmore, Jordan Kirkpatrick, Dale Hilson, Scott Linton, Mark McGuigan, Blair Henderson etc to name just a few.

Edited March 18, 2019 by South Stand Dynamo

[Ro Sham Bo]

In addition to the players already signed up for next season, Wedderburn is the only other one I'd be looking to keep.

The rest of them can go, and I wouldn't be averse to us moving on 2 or 3 of the under contract players as well.

Whatever we do, McGlynn needs to identify how he wants to set us up next season and then make sure he gets the players in that will fit into it. You look at the squad Smith put together last summer and I've no idea what he was trying to do.

[raith1974]

3 hours ago, Scary Bear said:

Who are you actually keeping?

The only players I would be fussed about keeping are Nisbet, Murray and Vaughan, although given the injury issues Vaughan has, I agree it’s a mad idea to plan a title winning season around him. While it’s nice that Murray is a utility player, it would be good to find his best position. They are all signed up for next season. So two and a half players. Might need a bit of a rebuild if we went with my approach.

Bene and Dingwall are signed up for next season. Duggan was coming on to a game before he got injured but he’s only signed until the end of the season. Who else is signed up for next season? 

I wouldn't keep many at all. Probably keep Thomson, Murray, McKay, Gillespie, Nisbet, Vaughan. Review what youngsters to keep and add from new signings whether that is full time or a mixture of both part time and full time.

Edited March 18, 2019 by raith1974

[Michael W]

The main issue is that the full time players we are likely to have a shot at landing are in many cases no better than part-time players that we could bring in. This season has unfortunately proven just that. 

Saying that, fully part-time football should be avoided if at all possible as it's a hard place to get out of. Not averse to see a hybrid model next season, however. 

There are at least a couple of players under contract that I wouldn't be keeping. 

[Ro Sham Bo]

So, is everybody ready for the scramble for tickets for the East Fife match?

[grumswall]

Hello, long-time lurker, first-time poster.
To throw my tuppance into this debate, I feel that a move to a hybrid system is an absolute must if we are going to build a stronger squad for next season.
Historically, the full-time side usually wins this league (notable exceptions aside), but it has been proven that we are working at such a low bar of FT player, that almost any advantage has gone when you compare to a solid team like Arbroath who have built this side over 3 seasons.
Without taking their contract information to be impeccably accurate, a quick snifter on transfermarkt shows there are a lot of decent PT players out of contract in May, a fair few of which have stood out against us over the past 2 seasons.
Players like Kyle Turner, Aaron Dunsmore, Jordan Kirkpatrick, Dale Hilson, Scott Linton, Mark McGuigan, Blair Henderson etc to name just a few.

Welcome to the asylum and may I be the first to tell you to "open your eyes"

I would be happy with Turner, Kirkpatrick and Henderson. Dunsmore is unlikely to want to come to us, I'd imagine Linton would be the same. Hilson is injury prone although a good player on his day, we already have Vaughan filling that role. Mcguigan has scored goals, hasn't looked that great when iv seen him up against bene and davo which raises a question mark.

Hybrid model worked for us very well in the past in this league then up to the next when it was phased out over a couple of seasons. Mcglynn knows how to make it work.

[grumswall]

So, is everybody ready for the scramble for tickets for the East Fife match?

Is that not how they normally get people to their games? Walk down leven high street, chuck a few tickets and shout scramble?

[Enigma]

In addition to the players already signed up for next season, Wedderburn is the only other one I'd be looking to keep.

He’d be one of the first out the door if it was up to me.