The New Raith Rovers Thread

[Ro Sham Bo]

Smith and Lennox are both pretty hopeless and I'll be incredulous if either of them get offered a new deal. Lennox was actually signed after Barry Smith was appointed so technically he signed both of them (although I think Lennox was signed on Cuthbert's recommendation).

Smith chose to splurge most of his budget on Buchanan and Spence when we already had Vaughan signed up and, to all intents and purposes, Mark Stewart. He only needed to sign one other striker to go with Vaughan, Stewart and Court but he chose otherwise.

He did apparently have the rug pulled from under his feet by the board when the deal to sign the Dundee defender was cancelled (who we didn't need anyway because McKay did fine) but they were apparently willing to bankroll the signing of Nathan Austin so I don't think he can complain to much about his budget or what he had to work with. 

[donny86]

I’m not convinced it was smith who signed Spence and Buchanan, I have a sneaky suspicion this was done at board level

[piebob]

5 minutes ago, donny86 said:

I’m not convinced it was smith who signed Spence and Buchanan, I have a sneaky suspicion this was done at board level

My thoughts too. Maybe why Young is no longer here? No foundation, just a feeling, and they could quite easily have been Smith signings. 

[SuperHans]

I’m not convinced it was smith who signed Spence and Buchanan, I have a sneaky suspicion this was done at board level

Have you got anything to back that up? Would be interesting if true but I can't imagine that being the case?

I think Barry Smith took a job that he was desperate for. Maybe if he was in a position that he didn't need to get back into full time football and had high aspirations for East Fife then his terms might have been a bit different. He didn't bring any of his own backroom staff and was willing to work with what he had.

His tactics were questionable a lot of the time but regardless of how you look at it, his record this season tells a completely contradictory story to how we all feel. He failed to get us promoted as champions on the finest of margins and the bubble was well and truly burst for the playoffs.

I think the BoD won't be in a position to pay him off (if that's required) and then start another process of finding a new manager. Especially if there's big board room shake ups. The risk involved is massive. Another poor appointment and we could be in serious trouble. With the resources Smith had this season, he could easily win us this league next season. McKinnon coming in would be great but he'd want a lot more than Smith I think and by all accounts money's bound to be tight next season. The only hope we'd have in my opinion is if Smith was to walk but he's not going to do that unless he really is feeling the pressure from the fans. He's got another year in his contract and let's face it, if he leaves now what job is he realistically going to be looking for next. If he stays and wins us a league then he's back at Championship/full time football level.

Who knows, this time next year we might be hailing him a hero...?

[renton]

15 minutes ago, SuperHans said:

 

Have you got anything to back that up? Would be interesting if true but I can't imagine that being the case?

I think Barry Smith took a job that he was desperate for. Maybe if he was in a position that he didn't need to get back into full time football and had high aspirations for East Fife then his terms might have been a bit different. He didn't bring any of his own backroom staff and was willing to work with what he had.

His tactics were questionable a lot of the time but regardless of how you look at it, his record this season tells a completely contradictory story to how we all feel. He failed to get us promoted as champions on the finest of margins and the bubble was well and truly burst for the playoffs.

I think the BoD won't be in a position to pay him off (if that's required) and then start another process of finding a new manager. Especially if there's big board room shake ups. The risk involved is massive. Another poor appointment and we could be in serious trouble. With the resources Smith had this season, he could easily win us this league next season. McKinnon coming in would be great but he'd want a lot more than Smith I think and by all accounts money's bound to be tight next season. The only hope we'd have in my opinion is if Smith was to walk but he's not going to do that unless he really is feeling the pressure from the fans. He's got another year in his contract and let's face it, if he leaves now what job is he realistically going to be looking for next. If he stays and wins us a league then he's back at Championship/full time football level.

Who knows, this time next year we might be hailing him a hero...?

 

Smith, in many ways was no more tactically astute than Locke. The vast majority of his lineups were variations on a 4-4-2 - two wingers when he expected to dominate possession, Ross Matthews on the right when he wanted to keep it compact. When the issue was in doubt, chuck as many forwards at the problem as you can manage. Sound familiar? 

With that in mind, had Vaughan's shot trundled the other side of the post, I'd be very concerned at a Smith led championship campaign, I don't think he'd have had enough about him in that scenario to keep us up. I think, he's a bit of a blind alley, really. We need to be looking not just at the next campaign but at least as far as the one beyond that as well. 

Beyond all that, Young's resignation leaves Sim pretty much as the dominant voice now in the club, short of a real financial emergency it's hard to see why Sim - a man who as far back as his first financial interest in the club in '06, has championed the cause of more youth players in the first team - would be willing to spare the job of a guy who wasn't his pick, who's failed (regardless of margin) to get us up, and who certainly doesn't seem to be that keen on integrating youth players.

Edited May 7, 2018 by renton

[SuperHans]

Smith, in many ways was no more tactically astute than Locke. The vast majority of his lineups were variations on a 4-4-2 - two wingers when he expected to dominate possession, Ross Matthews on the right when he wanted to keep it compact. When the issue was in doubt, chuck as many forwards at the problem as you can manage. Sound familiar? 
With that in mind, had Vaughan's shot trundled the other side of the post, I'd be very concerned at a Smith led championship campaign, I don't think he'd have had enough about him in that scenario to keep us up. I think, he's a bit of a blind alley, really. We need to be looking not just at the next campaign but at least as far as the one beyond that as well. 
Beyond all that, Young's resignation leaves Sim pretty much as the dominant voice now in the club, short of a real financial emergency it's hard to see why Sim - a man who as far back as his first financial interest in the club in '06, has championed the cause of more youth players in the first team - would be willing to spare the job of a guy who wasn't his pick, who's failed (regardless of margin) to get us up, and who certainly doesn't seem to be that keen on integrating youth players.

100% agree with you. I had major concerns over Smith for the future. The only thing that kept me slightly reassured was that his style of play may have been changed to suit the higher level. Also I'd hope that the BoD would be poised to act a lot quicker than they did with Locke if things didn't go to plan.

Sim being the man who has the overall say isn't going to be something new now that Young has gone. My understanding of things is that Young and Sinton were keeping most of the day to day stuff ticking over (not very well) and any major decisions ultimately were run by Sim. My concern with this is that I see Sims knowledge of football and in particular of Raith Rovers, even worse than that of Alan Youngs. His investments have all been into Starks Park (his property) and his answer to the question of money for the team is that when the team make money, they'll get money. Sims next appointment on the BoD is crucial for us as fans rather than him. His stadium will still be there regardless of what league we play in. If it means spending money to get rid of a manager and then spending more to bring another one in along with a completely new batch of players then I'd be surprised if Sim would be the one putting his hands in his pockets to fund that. Especially as he's so determined to have an artificial pitch laid.

[invocr]

2 hours ago, renton said:

I'd be very concerned at a Smith led championship campaign, I don't think he'd have had enough about him in that scenario to keep us up. I think, he's a bit of a blind alley, really. We need to be looking not just at the next campaign but at least as far as the one beyond that as well. 

Beyond all that, Young's resignation leaves Sim pretty much as the dominant voice now in the club, short of a real financial emergency it's hard to see why Sim - a man who as far back as his first financial interest in the club in '06, has championed the cause of more youth players in the first team - would be willing to spare the job of a guy who wasn't his pick, who's failed (regardless of margin) to get us up, and who certainly doesn't seem to be that keen on integrating youth players.

Agree with all of this. That said, I can't see Smith being fired by Sim - even though he's made it clear he wants youth to be given more of a chance. Also struggle to think of other managers who would be jumping at the chance to come and manage us. I'd almost be tempted to say I'd be happy with Dick Campbell, but he's probably happy at Arbroath!

Oh, and my "on this day" post on Facebook from two years ago is of the play-off match against Hibs. Three seasons in a row in the play-offs, worse each time. Does that mean we'll be in the relegation play-offs this time next year. Hope not!

[roverthemoon]

I still don’t see how the Board can afford to keep Smith. The way we collapsed in the latter stage of the season and failed to compete effectively in the play off semi-final means that there’s a huge proportion of the support who will turn against him vocally at the first opportunity next season. The club can’t afford to go into a new season with the threat of that sort of toxic atmosphere just around the corner. It is a fairly similar situation as the one with Grant Murray. I think Smith will be gone tomorrow night. 

Edited May 7, 2018 by roverthemoon

[Scottydog]

5 hours ago, SuperHans said:

 

 

I can't disagree with any of that. Ultimately when Smith was brought in, we were in a desperate position. Consistency is key for a goalkeeper and you could see the differences when they were swapped.

 

 

But were we? In the damn few games that young Rory Brian featured he was excellent, yet he was side lined for G Smith why? Because he's young and Bazza doesn't rate him and was quoted as having said  "He tries to play too much football".

I'm also tired of hearing from some on here about what a hero  G Smith was in certain games. Why?  All he did was his job (saving the ball) I'm sorry but he will live longest in my memory for the more often times he utterly failed in his job.

Part of Barry Smiths remit was to use the youngsters yet he wouldn't unless he absolutely had to, I have heard it rumoured that he wants the Dev' side gone and the money for the 1st team. The man is an out and out clown if he'd blooded more young players last season they be the ones we could be using this season coming, Brian, Court, McKay, Watson and possibly one or two others could all have been challenging for 1st team starts every week.

[Broken Algorithms]

If Smith stays he'll be 'tainted' in the same was Murray was after we went on a long run without winning a game. He'll be known as the manager who played two forwards under 5'9 up front and hoofed balls to them against Alloa at home with a title at stake, before deciding it was still worth trying again away four days later. He's not got the tactics to move us forward. We could have a repeat season next year, and we could go up, but then what would he bring from there? If he's happy to go into games like Ayr away where they had a ridiculously dodgy defence, and sit with 10 behind the ball, then what would he do at Morton, or Queen of the South? How would he handle a proper derby against the Pars? 

He's lost the fans. I'm sure the board will point this out tomorrow. 

[SuperHans]

I still don’t see how the Board can afford to keep Smith. The way we collapsed in the latter stage of the season and failed to compete effectively in the play off semi-final means that there’s a huge proportion of the support who will turn against him vocally at the first opportunity next season. The club can’t afford to go into a new season with the threat of that sort of toxic atmosphere just around the corner. It is a fairly similar situation as the one with Grant Murray. I think Smith will be gone tomorrow night. 

 

We didn't collapse in the latter stages of the season, we actually caught Ayr who did incidentally did collapse. Our form going into the last game of the season was joint top with Arbroaths. We collapsed on a day where nothing went our way and then capitulated the following Wednesday. We're going into a situation quite similar to Hearts last season with Cathrine. He was gone before a Premier League game had even been played.

 

But were we? In the damn few games that young Rory Brian featured he was excellent, yet he was side lined for G Smith why? Because he's young and Bazza doesn't rate him and was quoted as having said  "He tries to play too much football".

I'm also tired of hearing from some on here about what a hero  G Smith was in certain games. Why?  All he did was his job (saving the ball) I'm sorry but he will live longest in my memory for the more often times he utterly failed in his job.

Part of Barry Smiths remit was to use the youngsters yet he wouldn't unless he absolutely had to, I have heard it rumoured that he wants the Dev' side gone and the money for the 1st team. The man is an out and out clown if he'd blooded more young players last season they be the ones we could be using this season coming, Brian, Court, McKay, Watson and possibly one or two others could all have been challenging for 1st team starts every week.

 

I'm not defending G Smith, his decision making at times was shocking. He made some good saves and he had howlers. His record in goals this season is marginally better than Lennox but between the pair of them there's no real winners there.

 

It's far too easy in hindsight to say that playing the youth would have worked. There's always an argument that experienced heads are needed to win games. If you're a manager under the pressure he was with Ayr and Raith seesawing between top and second all season, it's going to take big balls to put trust in a young player and especially one who plays in a vulnerable position like in goals.

 

Please remember that John Sim has no experience in running a football club, lives in Thailand, has admitted in the past that he's not a Raith fan and only holds them close to him because of his father and has never been involved in professional football in his life up until recently. He can say whatever he likes, but I'm going to trust a manager like Barry Smith who's at least been there and done it over someone who has a nice idea of how things should work.

 

 

 

[renton]

1 hour ago, roverthemoon said:

I still don’t see how the Board can afford to keep Smith. The way we collapsed in the latter stage of the season and failed to compete effectively in the play off semi-final means that there’s a huge proportion of the support who will turn against him vocally at the first opportunity next season. The club can’t afford to go into a new season with the threat of that sort of toxic atmosphere just around the corner. It is a fairly similar situation as the one with Grant Murray. I think Smith will be gone tomorrow night. 

Yeah I agree. Sometimes a managers tenability is not all on the technical merits of his coaching. Though in his case that's questionable as well. From a morale point of view though rhe club cannot really afford to keep him.

[FalkirkBuddie]

John Sutton was lined up to come in at the end of January but Jack Ross pulled the plug at the last minute. I imagine that left very little time for a replacement. 

[No_Problemo]

Raith singing Sutton would have ben ridiculous given their options up front.

[SuperHans]

John Sutton was lined up to come in at the end of January but Jack Ross pulled the plug at the last minute. I imagine that left very little time for a replacement. 

Not sure how much substance there was to this. It was when we were in for Austin and Furtado.

Raith singing Sutton would have ben ridiculous given their options up front.

In all honesty, Sutton would have been a potentially great signing for us at that point. I'd have walked over glass for him over Furtado knowing how it all panned out in the end.

Buchanan, Vaughan and Spence have proved that they don't make suitable target men. If we had a big strong player with a bit of experience up there then he'd have been ideal for Buchanan, Spence and Vaughan.

[FalkirkBuddie]

Sutton was in the stands at a game at St Mirren Park and he was all set to go to Raith on the Monday but it all went sour on the Sunday. It was 100% on. 

[foreverarover]

Wasn’t that the game he cost us a goal by doing his usual thing of palming the ball almost straight out in front of him instead of putting it behind or away from the goals.

Yes it was

[Specky Ginger]

McHattie was Barry Smith's signing as well. 

He was released at the end of 2016/17, but was resigned by Smith in August when some way short of full fitness. 

[Zen Archer (Raconteur)]

Awkward.

Quote

On This Day

1964

 Having failed to win the club instant promotion Douglas Cowie resigns as Rovers manager admitting he was not cut out for management and instead preferred coaching.

 

[GhostZapper]

Board meeting this morning - I would anticipate Sinton becoming the new chairman, following on from Young's resignation. As from what happens after that, its anyone's guess. We may hear later today whether the manager is staying or going, and what the plan is for next season with regard to FT or PT.

Has anything more been said on the pitch situation - I know they had said timing would be tight for the start of next season given we had an extra week in the playoffs - assume in that case the diggers will be going in today? Can't see that changing even after Saturdays result.