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Someone hasn't been paying attention.

Simples

3rd division with 1st division contracts/wages

What should they have done ?

Gone part time ?

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Someone hasn't been paying attention.

Yes, you.

Simples

3rd division with 1st division contracts/wages

Until 2012? If not, why can you not break even before 2012? Answers on a postcard please simples.

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Yes, you.

Until 2012? If not, why can you not break even before 2012? Answers on a postcard please simples.

It is talking about the financial year 2011/12 eg next season.

The takeover was after the start of the new season and only slightly before the close of the window. We immediately released our most expensive player in Chris Innes if I remember rightly and all other players were encouraged to find another club. We have had the unfortunate experience with previous chairmen of terminating contracts early and gone through serious legal cases over it and ended up having to pay the entire wages they were due plus a fine, so much more expensive, so it has been a case of honouring the contracts to the end (hence the fact that Roddy McKenzie left and Jason Talbot left and came back again last summer). This therefore meant that we have ran at a substantial loss for the last season.

The club has substantialy cut costs where possible, by using in volunteers etc and bringing in Trust involvement in many areas. Unfortunately some of the costs are pretty much fixed such as stadium maintenance (before repairs) which particularly with last seasons hard winter was substantial.

Anyone with their head screwed on knew the club was going to make a loss for the third division, however we are on track to half that loss for this season according to McDougall and Nixon in the press with higher crowds and less repairs etc.

They are saying by the end of next season because, (hopefully) we will be back in the first division with larger crowds, the last of the expensive unaffordable contracts will run out and will be released or renegotiated (Ged Nixon has said at forums all new contracts have been based on the level we are playing at). The greater income will allow the club to cover the fixed and flexible costs that the club accrues. Meantime, by all accounts we have paid all bills on time, we have apparently had VAT inspections every quarter since they took over, but have been found acceptable.

I know you probably won't accept this answer, however I hope you will be willing to hold off the judgement for at least another year and you will hopefully see that the club has cut its cloth accordingly and over time will hopefully reduce our debt to the directors and be sustainable. I certainly hope so, like all fans I will always have a certain scepticism, but the current board have been very open with us from the beginning, honest about losses and how they are dealing with them, and the proper submission of accounts shows that they are not trying to hide things and be in denial like previous boards.

Edited by Livi Crazy

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Someone hasn't been paying attention.

Simples

3rd division with 1st division contracts/wages

What should they have done ?

Not adding Bobby Barr and Jim Hamilton to the wage bill during the 09/10 season may have helped a wee bit.

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Not adding Bobby Barr and Jim Hamilton to the wage bill during the 09/10 season may have helped a wee bit.

A formerly part-time young player and a past-it striker, neither exactly expensive. Remember full-time doesn't necessarily mean they are paid a lot, a lot of part-time players are paid more than our full time players.

On the point of Bobby Barr at that time we had a few injuries and it was looking highly likely we were losing Andrew Halliday, a key player, hence the fact that we brought someone in, however it was a player who was playing in the same league as us part-time and not getting games.

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It is talking about the financial year 2011/12 eg next season.

The accounts currently being discussed are for the year ended in 2010? So according to Nixon the next accounts for year ending in 2011 and due to be filed in March 2012 will show afurther loss of half a million and the accounts after that, year ending 2012 and filed in 2013, hopefully a break even figure? That would mean that the club would be circa £2million in debt, admittedly with nearly £1.5 million owed to the directors is that not a scarey thought? Interesting changes to the articles of association of Livi 5 and directors duties to it and not LFC.

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I'd certainly be concerned but I suppose it depends on who the other £500k of creditors are as to whether it's a really serious problem. It's certainly not as bad a position as we have been in. I suppose the breaking even suggestion will probably come from being in SPL 2.

What could the change in Articles of Association mean?

Edited by EdinburghLivi

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I'd certainly be concerned but I suppose it depends on who the other £500k of creditors are as to whether it's a really serious problem.

What could the change in Articles of Association mean?

Well directors must always act in the best interest of Livi 5, various other clauses to strengthen Rankines hold on things even when he is out of the country. They have to inform him of meetings and if he cant make it he has the right with out board resolution to appoint a stand in or/and an alternate director. Plus loads of other stuff.

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The accounts currently being discussed are for the year ended in 2010? So according to Nixon the next accounts for year ending in 2011 and due to be filed in March 2012 will show afurther loss of half a million and the accounts after that, year ending 2012 and filed in 2013, hopefully a break even figure? That would mean that the club would be circa £2million in debt, admittedly with nearly £1.5 million owed to the directors is that not a scarey thought? Interesting changes to the articles of association of Livi 5 and directors duties to it and not LFC.

The current short term creditors are at a perfectly normal level and will be simple day to day issues on the standard 30-day and 60-day credit terms, they actually have only increased marginally over the year.

I can see the debt to the directors ending up around £1.1-£1.2m and the other debt staying roughly similar. Now this isn't ideal, but the club has fixed costs which it has to cover and players were in contract, and if its a choice between getting in debt to the directors over long term (remembering one is a Livi fan and the others have worked significantly with lower league clubs so will know what to expect) or not paying our bills and terminating contracts early then I know which I would pick. We have been down the road of terminating contracts, with legal cases against us by Derek Lilley and Colin McMenamin and the high profile case of Manu Dorado, the latter resulted in us paying the legal fees, paying the value of the remainder of his contract and being issued a fine. If your going to have to pay the rest of a contract, better utilise the player. And, well we know whats happened in the past when bills haven't been paid. The clearly displayed directors debt shows that the costs of running the club in the divisions lower than we were set-up for clearly shows that the directors are covering the costs rather than failing to pay the creditors.

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The current short term creditors are at a perfectly normal level and will be simple day to day issues on the standard 30-day and 60-day credit terms, they actually have only increased marginally over the year.

I can see the debt to the directors ending up around £1.1-£1.2m and the other debt staying roughly similar. Now this isn't ideal, but the club has fixed costs which it has to cover and players were in contract, and if its a choice between getting in debt to the directors over long term (remembering one is a Livi fan and the others have worked significantly with lower league clubs so will know what to expect) or not paying our bills and terminating contracts early then I know which I would pick. We have been down the road of terminating contracts, with legal cases against us by Derek Lilley and Colin McMenamin and the high profile case of Manu Dorado, the latter resulted in us paying the legal fees, paying the value of the remainder of his contract and being issued a fine. If your going to have to pay the rest of a contract, better utilise the player. And, well we know whats happened in the past when bills haven't been paid. The clearly displayed directors debt shows that the costs of running the club in the divisions lower than we were set-up for clearly shows that the directors are covering the costs rather than failing to pay the creditors.

Why were the players not on contracts that said if Livi were relegated their wages would be reduced ? Fairly standard practice is it not ?

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Next season will hopefully a much, much greater income, which I think will happen when crowds will no doubt swell above the 2500 mark, sponsorship will increase and the use of the facilities at Almondvale will increase.

:lol:

Your average attendance for the last two seasons you were in Division 1 was below 2000.

Average Attendance:

2008-2009: 1,866 (Division One)

2007-2008: 1,831 (Division One)

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3rd division with 1st division contracts/wages

What should they have done ?

Maybe I'm missing something, but why not 3rd Division with 3rd Division contracts/wages?

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So part of the agreement to save you from going bust was to spend money you couldn't afford? :wacko:

In fact, it was to stop us from being kicked out the league but the point's the same. Who am I to question the SFL?

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Ah but those attendances weren't following a title winning team, as they will be next season.

............and how long will these fair weather fans stay when you're in the bottom half of Division 1 losing more games than you win?

Edited by btb

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............and how long will these fair weather fans stay when you're in the bottom half of Division 1 losing more games than you win?

We're going to win the league next year, you joker.

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