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Livingston - all the threads merged


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There were quite a few fans had bought season tickets but a lot didn't on the advice of the "Trust", the same ones who complain about players being sold on the cheap and the Dorrans sell on clause being sold cheaply.

I'm not backing Massone but just saying, going by the accounts and If everyone had pulled together the club could have survived in a better state than it is today.

It's even possible that he could have been removed at a later date instead of playing roulette with the club's very existence.

I ask you again, if the club had folded due to the gamble failing, do you think McDougall or Rankine would have shed any tears?

Myself and quite a few others i know didn't renew our ST's because we didn't trust Massone, he wasn't paying staff, never had a float for tills, so you didn't get served in the AS unless you had the correct change, away fans came in and couldn't get lager and other drinks because Massone hadn't paid suppliers and the place was running dry. He'd done too many things over the season and even the most trusting Livi fans had seen he was a liar, and had lied to them one time too many.

Theres not a hope in hell Massone would have ran the club any better not matter how much help he got, he wasn't living in the real world, guy was on another planet FFS, he was getting worse by the day. IMO the council did what need to be doen to get the crazy c**t out and we're lucky to still have a club, as he tried to block the CVA and put us into liquidation.

You already know all this though, you don't really believe what you're saying, it's obv your hatred for the Trust is motive for all this Massone might have got through it pish. dry.gif

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Myself and quite a few others i know didn't renew our ST's because we didn't trust Massone, he wasn't paying staff, never had a float for tills, so you didn't get served in the AS unless you had the correct change, away fans came in and couldn't get lager and other drinks because Massone hadn't paid suppliers and the place was running dry. He'd done too many things over the season and even the most trusting Livi fans had seen he was a liar, and had lied to them one time too many.

Theres not a hope in hell Massone would have ran the club any better not matter how much help he got, he wasn't living in the real world, guy was on another planet FFS, he was getting worse by the day. IMO the council did what need to be doen to get the crazy c**t out and we're lucky to still have a club, as he tried to block the CVA and put us into liquidation.

You already know all this though, you don't really believe what you're saying, it's obv your hatred for the Trust is motive for all this Massone might have got through it pish. dry.gif

Absolutely; I didn't renew because of Massone and nothing to do with what the "Trust" may or may not have said. Actually going by the threads on Livilions the trust had little credibility with their "we've got a plan but we're not telling you" sort of stance. I'm afraid this sort of alienated many who saw it as a "we know best" sort of attitude.

For Alex to suggest that the Trust's statements could have had a significant effect on whether or not people renewed their season tickets is really taking things too far. Personally all the court cases and liquidity problems (players not being paid, utilities being cut off, etc. etc.) had a far greater effect on my decision not to renew my season tickets at the time.

Based on what I saw, not by what others told me, there is absolutely no chance the club would still be in existence with Massone in change; lodged accounts can present one figure but they do not represent true cash flow and liquidity month by month; likewise ongoing liability for season tickets etc. can be a little misleading.

However the idea that he sold the "sell-on" clauses etc. because he was being force out by the trust is really a bit unrealistic. The trust never have that kind of power or influence, even under Flynn when they gave away £X000 for some paultry share value, and any other belief is frankly pie in the sky. Some saw it as the supporters mouthpiece but in reality only represented the members of the trust (however many that may be).

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Its good that MCL and McDougall have given us the truth. Once the stadium is sold we can close this thread. Well down MCL. Years and years of posting has paid off.

The stadium being sold will just be the beginning :D

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Regarding the financial statements posted by Brian.

I'm not sure I follow them completely, but it appears that over the year to 30/06/09 shareholders' funds improved by approximately £1.4m.

In the same period, the amount owed to creditors reduced by approximately £1.5m. Directors' loans were written down by 95%. This must presumably account for about £800k of the apparent profit. Where did the rest come from?

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Regarding the financial statements posted by Brian.

I'm not sure I follow them completely, but it appears that over the year to 30/06/09 shareholders' funds improved by approximately £1.4m.

In the same period, the amount owed to creditors reduced by approximately £1.5m. Directors' loans were written down by 95%. This must presumably account for about £800k of the apparent profit. Where did the rest come from?

From hard work day to day, second to second...wink.gif

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Maybe Brian knows. He seems like a reasonable, well grounded guy. And any friend of MCLs is a friend of mine. Well Brian?

As I said before:

He's not the Messiah, he's a very naughty boy!!!

(quote from "Monty Python's Life of Brian" for the infidels among you)

Romani ite Domum!!!!!

Edited by Livi Willie
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I had been due money from LFC for 12 months before Angelo took over so your question is irrelevant.

I didn't work for LFC while he was in charge so I didn't have any late payments during his tenure. His reason for not paying was that Pearse had hidden the debts and I and others should chase him for the money. My argument was the club were due the money and he could chase Pearse afterwards if he wanted.

I'm not saying he was doing fine. The accounts are saying that and they are signed off by Gordon McDougall.

His question wasn't really irrelevant, you were chasing Massone for your money, as you clearly say in this post, it's Massone's fault for not carrying out due diligence if he was claiming he didn't know of your and others debt.

It is the fault of the new owners if they didn't carry out due diligence.

They got the club for next to nothing as Pearse wanted to get rid of it to stop the drain on his finances. Most of the cost to the new owners was the debt owed to the council and suppliers.

.

Found Massone's letter;

"Dear Sirs,

Re: Outstanding Account

With reference your outstanding account with ourselves we apologise for the delay in responding to your request for payment.

As you will be aware we took over ownership of the club on 2nd June 2008 and as per the agreement any debts, beyond an agreed amount, incurred prior to this date would be the responsibility of the previous owners. I would therefore ask you in this instance to contact Mr Pearse Flynn in relation to your outstanding account.

Any goods/services supplied to Livingston Football Club after 2nd June will be paid direct by ourselves and we will notify you shortly regarding a payment date.

May we take this opportunity to thank you for your patience during this transition time and if you have any problems relating to the above please let me know in writing to the above address..

Yours faithfully,

Angelo Massone

Chairman"

Interesting him saying he'd pay everyone after the date he took over, that turned out to be a big fat lie, didn't even pay his staff.

Aye Angelo, it might be a few pounds to you but to small businesses in this financial climate it can be the difference between staying afloat and going to the wall.

Just as well we're not hanging by the balls waiting 'one or two' days since most of us have been waiting months.

I'll take you at your word though and will check my business account on Friday. If the money isn't in then I'll take further legal action. Seem fair?

I 'm sorry I have to respond to you on an internet forum but you and Thomasso won't return my calls.

Maybe if you had given him some support and not brought the sherriff officers down to the stadium to collect your money he'd have done ok and got us to the SPL. wink.gif

Edited by LIVIFOREVER
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His question wasn't really irrelevant, you were chasing Massone for your money, as you clearly say in this post, it's Massone's fault for not carrying out due diligence if he was claiming he didn't know of your and others debt.

Interesting him saying he'd pay everyone after the date he took over, that turned out to be a big fat lie, didn't even pay his staff.

Maybe if you had given him some support and not brought the sherriff officers down to the stadium to collect your money he'd have done ok and got us to the SPL. wink.gif

As I said, the debt was due by Livingston Football Club and had been outstanding for 12 months. I responded to Angelo in that way because he was the one that signed the letter to me.

The question was irrelevant because I never did any work for the club after Pearse left.

If the club had paid me on time I would have bought the three season tickets that I had done for years and also the odd hospitality for friends.

As it was I wasn't going to write off £1800 while the "Trust" were telling their membership not to put in any money.

Edited by MCL
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Regarding the financial statements posted by Brian.

I'm not sure I follow them completely, but it appears that over the year to 30/06/09 shareholders' funds improved by approximately £1.4m.

In the same period, the amount owed to creditors reduced by approximately £1.5m. Directors' loans were written down by 95%. This must presumably account for about £800k of the apparent profit. Where did the rest come from?

I think you would need to send them to Philadelphia for someone to be able to understand them.

Edited by AND180Y
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