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Livingston - all the threads merged

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"Eloquent!" - Daily Mail

"How witty!" - The Sun

"Astounding!" - Daily Record

"If you see any post this year, make sure it's that one" - Empire.

Brilliant :D

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Yeah cause once is acceptable ya hypocritical scumDee b'stard. ;)

*Edited as forgot the scumDee bit. :D

Nope, once is and was unacceptable.

Twice, however is beyond ridiculous.

If you are unable to fathom this, then i would have to conclude that you are in fact as retarded as your semi-literate posts suggest.

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While as a Livi fan and obviously not claiming any kind of moral high ground here, can any of our numerous and vociferous enemies answer me these questions?

1/ Franchise- Clyde move 30-odd miles to council-owned stadium.

No name change - not franchise?

Airdrieonians die, Clydebank change name to Airdrie United, move 30-odd miles and rock up into stadium that Airdrieonians used to play in. Not franchise?

Meadowbank move 16 miles from one council-owned stadium to another. more suitable stadium, owned by a different council. ----Franchise F.C.?

2/ Administration.

How many people got stiffed. and for how much when Dundee went into admin?

How many people got stiffed. and for how much when Partick did the CVA routine to save their hide?

How many people got stiffed, and for how much when Donald McGruther saved Falkirk's arse?

Just asking.......

Time for some righteous indignation here.

1. Clyde were in an *incredibly* tight spot in the mid-late 80s. The club had no money, shelled out most of the little it made on renting Firhill (86-91) and Old Douglas Park (91-3) before moving to Broadwood. Clyde's small fan base knew well in advance about the move to Cumbernauld and, from memory, whilst there was some sadness at permanently moving away from the club's traditional Rutherglen heartland, it was accepted as a necessary move given that Shawfield was no longer available, and other potential sites in that area were non existent/non viable/too expensive. The alternative was the slow death of the club.

Notice the aspect of consent- the fans went along with it, and the club maintain close links to their traditional area in Glasgow to this day. Your rightly point out that the name didn't change and it is the *same* club, just a different stadium. Some fans like to claim that Livingston is just a continuation of Meadowbank, but frankly that's a lot more doubtful than in Clyde's case.

Your gloss on Meadowbank's *forcible* move from the concrete lavvypan is laughably revisionist. You make it sound as though it was a small family moving to a bigger semi with a new baby on the way. As you *well* know, but probably don't care, that move was resisted for years on end by the Thistle Action Group, and was forced through in the teeth of the opposition of I'd say 99% of Meadowbank's fans. Whilst MTFC may still have existed on paper for a number of years after the name disappeared from the fixture card, the club had to all intents and purposes disappeared, to be replaced by an entirely new and alien one that the vast majority of the Thistle support wanted nothing to do with.

It was the first example of Franchise football in the UK as a result, and quite different to Clyde's case. Simply, Meadowbank's league membership was usurped by "Livingston FC", with the aim of creating a newtown club with a bigger fanbase and more potential to achieve success. Of course those aims have all proven to be laughable fantasy in the fourteen years that have followed, with any "success" achieved only on the back of ripping off untold numbers of individuals and companies both in the football industry and beyond. Had Meadowbank continued under the old leadership they'd probably be a mid table second division side these days, and part time still, with a core support of about 250. The creation of "Livingston FC" with the connivance of the LDC stole that club's league place from them very much against the fans will- that most current "Livi" fans appear indifferent, or indeed contemptuous, of those historical facts, in my view, makes the club and many of its followers pretty widely loathed throughout the Scottish game.

I'm not sure the Airdrie-Clydebank case is a worthwhile analogy, as its such a Byzantine case. But, yes, in my view, the current Airdrie United are a franchise club, created by Jim Ballantyne to preserve senior football in that town, at Clydebank's expense.

Someone with more knowledge of the club finances that you mention will have to take on your second point.

Edited by Ivo den Bieman

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It was the first example of Franchise football in the UK as a result, and quite different to Clyde's case. Simply, Meadowbank's league membership was usurped by "Livingston FC", with the aim of creating a newtown club with a bigger fanbase and more potential to achieve success. Of course those aims have all proven to be laughable fantasy in the fourteen years that have followed, with any "success" achieved only on the back of ripping off untold numbers of individuals and companies both in the football industry and beyond. Had Meadowbank continued under the old leadership they'd probably be a mid table second division side these days, and part time still, with a core support of about 250. The creation of "Livingston FC" with the connivance of the LDC stole that club's league place from them very much against the fans will- that most current "Livi" fans appear indifferent, or indeed contemptuous, of those historical facts, in my view, makes the club and many of its followers pretty widely loathed throughout the Scottish game.

Wondeful paragraph that sums up LFC to a tee.

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SFL meeting is tomorrow and from what I hear Livi are about to hurtle to the bottom of Division 3.

You mean they have made up their minds before the actual meeting and leaked the outcome? Surely not! :rolleyes:

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While as a Livi fan and obviously not claiming any kind of moral high ground here, can any of our numerous and vociferous enemies answer me these questions?

1/ Franchise- Clyde move 30-odd miles to council-owned stadium.

No name change - not franchise?

Airdrieonians die, Clydebank change name to Airdrie United, move 30-odd miles and rock up into stadium that Airdrieonians used to play in. Not franchise?

Meadowbank move 16 miles from one council-owned stadium to another. more suitable stadium, owned by a different council. ----Franchise F.C.?

2/ Administration.

How many people got stiffed. and for how much when Dundee went into admin?

How many people got stiffed. and for how much when Partick did the CVA routine to save their hide?

How many people got stiffed, and for how much when Donald McGruther saved Falkirk's arse?

Just asking.......

Time for some righteous indignation here.

Probably been answered, but I'll take the wind out of your sails regardless. Falkirk paid back every penny of every debt. Does that sound familiar? Nope, I didn't think so. There's a world of difference between re-structuring a debt and paying it, and avoiding it altogether in order to gain a competitive advantage over your peers while shafting those that you owe money to (including charities). One is by any standards, an honourable course of action. The other is the benchmark of an organisation with no standards whatsoever. Guess which club is which.

I've said it before, but had Falkirk FC decided that ripping off charities was an ok thing to do, I as an individual would have been forced to do something about that as an act of conscience. Since your club has clearly taken the stance that treating charites in this way is an acceptable way to kick off the new era, in this moment of your righteous indignation, what is it that you intend to do (along with your fellow supporters) to right this wrong? I'm sure "nothing" is the real answer. Given that collectively, you have done nothing, I presume that you set your standards at much the same sort of level as your club and "Trust".

Donald McGruther doesn't do "arse saving". Do a little research into his professional history, and you'll understand why. I bet he feels right at home up Livingston way, and I'm sure you'll have no further comment wrt Falkirk and administration.

Edited by Duncan Freemason

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You mean they have made up their minds before the actual meeting and leaked the outcome? Surely not! :rolleyes:

The meeting isn't to decide guilt; that was established as soon as Livi (cheating scum) scratched the fixture.

The meeting is to decide the punishment. Hence it's obvious that those present will already have an idea over what they believe said punishment should be.

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The meeting isn't to decide guilt; that was established as soon as Livi (cheating scum) scratched the fixture.

The meeting is to decide the punishment. Hence it's obvious that those present will already have an idea over what they believe said punishment should be.

Well then may I bow to your superior knowledge, your sirship. :geek

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You may not.

Livi (cheating scum) fans are not important enough to be in my presence, let alone be allowed to bow in front of me.

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You may not.

Livi (cheating scum) fans are not important enough to be in my presence, let alone be allowed to bow in front of me.

Aw goan! Jist this once. :rolleyes:

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The meeting is to decide the punishment. Hence it's obvious that those present will already have an idea over what they believe said punishment should be.

It's actually a tough call for the SFL MC. They wont want to appear vindictive/bitter/eager for retribution again Livi but conversley: if they let them off lightly, it encourages clubs to scratch if they disagree with a league decision...

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1. Clyde were in an *incredibly* tight spot in the mid-late 80s. The club had no money, shelled out most of the little it made on renting Firhill (86-91) and Old Douglas Park (91-3) before moving to Broadwood. Clyde's small fan base knew well in advance about the move to Cumbernauld and, from memory, whilst there was some sadness at permanently moving away from the club's traditional Rutherglen heartland, it was accepted as a necessary move given that Shawfield was no longer available, and other potential sites in that area were non existent/non viable/too expensive. The alternative was the slow death of the club.

Notice the aspect of consent- the fans went along with it, and the club maintain close links to their traditional area in Glasgow to this day. Your rightly point out that the name didn't change and it is the *same* club, just a different stadium. Some fans like to claim that Livingston is just a continuation of Meadowbank, but frankly that's a lot more doubtful than in Clyde's case.

Your gloss on Meadowbank's *forcible* move from the concrete lavvypan is laughably revisionist. You make it sound as though it was a small family moving to a bigger semi with a new baby on the way. As you *well* know, but probably don't care, that move was resisted for years on end by the Thistle Action Group, and was forced through in the teeth of the opposition of I'd say 99% of Meadowbank's fans. Whilst MTFC may still have existed on paper for a number of years after the name disappeared from the fixture card, the club had to all intents and purposes disappeared, to be replaced by an entirely new and alien one that the vast majority of the Thistle support wanted nothing to do with.

It was the first example of Franchise football in the UK as a result, and quite different to Clyde's case. Simply, Meadowbank's league membership was usurped by "Livingston FC", with the aim of creating a newtown club with a bigger fanbase and more potential to achieve success. Of course those aims have all proven to be laughable fantasy in the fourteen years that have followed, with any "success" achieved only on the back of ripping off untold numbers of individuals and companies both in the football industry and beyond. Had Meadowbank continued under the old leadership they'd probably be a mid table second division side these days, and part time still, with a core support of about 250. The creation of "Livingston FC" with the connivance of the LDC stole that club's league place from them very much against the fans will- that most current "Livi" fans appear indifferent, or indeed contemptuous, of those historical facts, in my view, makes the club and many of its followers pretty widely loathed throughout the Scottish game.

I'm not sure the Airdrie-Clydebank case is a worthwhile analogy, as its such a Byzantine case. But, yes, in my view, the current Airdrie United are a franchise club, created by Jim Ballantyne to preserve senior football in that town, at Clydebank's expense.

Well said that man

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The Champers is on ice.

I thought you would have opened that bottle when you won promotion! :huh:

Ah! Silly me! You didn't win promotion! :rolleyes:

Aw goan! Jist this once. :rolleyes:

:lol:

Although that is rather funny it also makes me feel very sick! :huh:

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I thought you would have opened that bottle when you won promotion! :huh:

Ah! Silly me! You didn't win promotion

Aye and you lot didn't get kicked out of football like you should have been.

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