Livingston - all the threads merged

[Aberdeen Cowden]

Creditors meeting on 17th September.

Livi were £2.8 million in debt!!!

Club sold for £225,000 and the proposed settlement to creditors is 0.05p in the £!! (I assume this is 5p)

Interim manager fees £74,000 for a months work!! total cost of admin and legals £141,000.

The council were actually owed £418,000!! With HMRC £1/2 a million!!

And they are still offering full-time (or should I say fool-time) contracts!

You have to hand it to them, they have some bottle!

[phantoms-livi-lass]

I shall post more to keep you shut up.

It may keep me quiet, but Duncan will never stop now! Oh dear!

[HTG]

Creditors meeting on 17th September.

Livi were £2.8 million in debt!!!

Club sold for £225,000 and the proposed settlement to creditors is 0.05p in the £!! (I assume this is 5p)

Interim manager fees £74,000 for a months work!! total cost of admin and legals £141,000.

The council were actually owed £418,000!! With HMRC £1/2 a million!!

Surely HMRC are not going to accept 5p in the £ from Livingston. I caught a clip of the Accrington manager earlier tonight - they are scraping money from everywhere to pay HMRC before the club gets shut down. Either Accrington have run up a colossal debt and 5p in the pound will still cause them a huge problem or they are having to pay considerably more than that. If I were linked to them in any way, I'd be having a bloody good look at the deal HMRC strikes with Livi and then making a complaint to the minister responsible for their actions to identify what makes Livi such a special case. The council are obviously minded to do what the fvck they like and to hell with local services or accountability but HMRC need to be consistent or they'll get the square root of fvck all from every club in a bit of bother.

[Guest]

Surely HMRC are not going to accept 5p in the £ from Livingston. I caught a clip of the Accrington manager earlier tonight - they are scraping money from everywhere to pay HMRC before the club gets shut down. Either Accrington have run up a colossal debt and 5p in the pound will still cause them a huge problem or they are having to pay considerably more than that. If I were linked to them in any way, I'd be having a bloody good look at the deal HMRC strikes with Livi and then making a complaint to the minister responsible for their actions to identify what makes Livi such a special case. The council are obviously minded to do what the fvck they like and to hell with local services or accountability but HMRC need to be consistent or they'll get the square root of fvck all from every club in a bit of bother.

It is an outrage. They carry on handing out full time contracts with MacDougall giving TV interviews about a miscarriage of justice, and all the while they are putting together a proposal to offer decent companies and organisations 5p in the pound. I'm sure it will barely warrant a mention on LL as it is an unarguable measure of reality that they will want to conveniently sidestep. Personally, I hope HMRC and a couple of significant others tell them to spin on it. Even today they have gone and signed up a couple of younger players. There won't be much money involved, but it is still money that should have been used to pay legitimate creditors.

Hiding behind company law looks likely to get them out of jail yet again. That the wee eejit John Robertson spoke on radio of Livvy being in the first division "on merit" is even more laughable now than it was the day he said it. Take over half a million out of Livingston's budget for each of the past five seasons, and they would have been in SFL3 two years ago. They say cheats never prosper, but Livingston are living proof that there is one football club that likes to challenge that proverb each and every day of its existance. P&Bs hawks were right all along. They should have been thrown out of the league.

Unfortunately, they seem to have met with their soul mates in the form of Livingston council........or more accurately, three key individuals on Livingston council.

[Borys]

Ahoj!

I caught a clip of the Accrington manager earlier tonight - they are scraping money from everywhere to pay HMRC before the club gets shut down. Either Accrington have run up a colossal debt and 5p in the pound will still cause them a huge problem or they are having to pay considerably more than that.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/...paid-taxes.html

Helpful?

More on the subject in various articles here:

http://www.leisuremanagement.co.uk/newssea...mit=News+Search

Borys

Edited September 11, 2009 by Borys

[MCL]

It is an outrage. They carry on handing out full time contracts with MacDougall giving TV interviews about a miscarriage of justice, and all the while they are putting together a proposal to offer decent companies and organisations 5p in the pound. I'm sure it will barely warrant a mention on LL as it is an unarguable measure of reality that they will want to conveniently sidestep. Personally, I hope HMRC and a couple of significant others tell them to spin on it. Even today they have gone and signed up a couple of younger players. There won't be much money involved, but it is still money that should have been used to pay legitimate creditors.

Hiding behind company law looks likely to get them out of jail yet again. That the wee eejit John Robertson spoke on radio of Livvy being in the first division "on merit" is even more laughable now than it was the day he said it. Take over half a million out of Livingston's budget for each of the past five seasons, and they would have been in SFL3 two years ago. They say cheats never prosper, but Livingston are living proof that there is one football club that likes to challenge that proverb each and every day of its existance. P&Bs hawks were right all along. They should have been thrown out of the league.

Unfortunately, they seem to have met with their soul mates in the form of Livingston council........or more accurately, three key individuals on Livingston council.

It was all in the "Trust" business plan that the WLC agreed to while Massone was still in charge. The council leader played his part of the plan well

[Livi]

Grant is spot on but getting loads of flack by Pedro/LiviTV/Plug/Scarface

You should be ashamed of comments like that. This is one of the reasons your not liked amongst the core support at Livi FC personal attacks like that are out of order

[Benjamin_Nevis]

Yeah it would be as hilarious as your benefactor pulling out and wanting his money back and puting you in admin.

I've highlighted where you went wrong.

HTH

[Reynard]

I wish they would hurry up and f**k off into oblivion.

[Guest]

You should be ashamed of comments like that. This is one of the reasons your not liked amongst the core support at Livi FC personal attacks like that are out of order

Personal attacks? Where are you seeing a personal attack by MCL? He is speaking the truth for heaven's sake. You have one punter who has publically come out and said what the rest of the footballing world know to be true. The apologists and serial liars don't like it, so have stated as much on LL.

The depths to which your club has plumbed is now out there (£2.8 million debt in five years from the club who promised five years ago to never get into unsustainable debt again). If they hadn't run up the debt, there is no way they would have survived in SFL1, so by accruing the debt and then refusing to honour it, Livingston football club have yet again cheated their way to a false position in the Scottish game. That is now getting on for £14 million that this club has cheated out of the business world since 1995.

Compare that to the honest clubs in the league, and then perhaps you have a measure of why Livingston FC is seen as a repugnant outfit to most right minded lovers of football.

Livingston FC have survived yet again, yet are unhappy that their pathalogical cheating hasn't been allowed to benefit them this time around. You all sit there talking about how corrupt the SFL and SFA are. Go and look at the figures in the CVA proposal mate. Five pence in the sodding pound. You owe other people nearly three million quid, and your club are intending to walk away by giving them around £150,000 to share amongst themselves. Yet you see demotion to the 3rd division as excessive punishment.

That tells you everything about the integrity that is at play down Almondvale way. So much for LLD and is claim that half a million had been set aside for creditors. What a joke that was. Even had first division football come to pass, it wouldn't have happened.

Enjoy your new regime of fine and upstanding board members. Something tells me that Livingston's brave new world of integrity and honesty is already beginning to tarnish. Tell me this. If I were to buy a ST for Livingston, who would the cheque be made out to? Is it Livingston Football Club? Go ask around. The answer might be quite interesting.

P.S., what are the views of the CVA proposal over on LL? Is it actually even part of a thread as yet?

And to go back to your original quote, you need to re-adjust your sights as to what in all of this is truly "out of order"............and it ain't MCL's comment, I can assure you of that.

Edited September 12, 2009 by Guest

[Glasgow Loon]

Accrington have to pay HMRC £308000 within the next month,so i cant see HMRC agreeing to 5p in the pound from livingston.

It has to be all or nothing and lets hope that the other creditors back HMRC as well so that in the end livi are liquidated as that is all the seem fit for.

[Benjamin_Nevis]

Personal attacks? Where are you seeing a personal attack by MCL? He is speaking the truth for heaven's sake. You have one punter who has publically come out and said what the rest of the footballing world know to be true. The apologists and serial liars don't like it, so have stated as much on LL.

The depths to which your club has plumbed is now out there (£2.8 million debt in five years from the club who promised five years ago to never get into unsustainable debt again). If they hadn't run up the debt, there is no way they would have survived in SFL1, so by accruing the debt and then refusing to honour it, Livingston football club have yet again cheated their way to a false position in the Scottish game. That is now getting on for £14 million that this club has cheated out of the business world since 1995.

Compare that to the honest clubs in the league, and then perhaps you have a measure of why Livingston FC is seen as a repugnant outfit to most right minded lovers of football.

Livingston FC have survived yet again, yet are unhappy that their pathalogical cheating hasn't been allowed to benefit them this time around. You all sit there talking about how corrupt the SFL and SFA are. Go and look at the figures in the CVA proposal mate. Five pence in the sodding pound. You owe other people nearly three million quid, and your club are intending to walk away by giving them around £150,000 to share amongst themselves. Yet you see demotion to the 3rd division as excessive punishment.

That tells you everything about the integrity that is at play down Almondvale way. So much for LLD and is claim that half a million had been set aside for creditors. What a joke that was.

Enjoy your new regime of fine and upstanding board members. Something tells me that Livingston's brave new world of integrity and honesty is already beginning to tarnish. Tell me this. If I were to buy a ST for Livingston, who would the cheque be made out to? Is it Livingston Football Club? Go ask around. The answer might be quite interesting.

P.S., what are the views of the CVA proposal over on LL? Is it actually even part of a thread as yet?

And to go back to your original quote, you need to re-adjust your sights as to what in all of this is truly "out of order"............and it ain't MCL's comment, I can assure you of that.

All good points Duncan, but i'm afraid you're banging your head against a brick wall.

The most hilarious aspect of LL for me, well apart from the massive percentage of clearly retarded posters, is that this time last year, LLD was being torn a new one on that forum for daring to question Massone by all and sundry. Now these self same posters are turning on ANYONE who dares go against the party line, and indeed the rare posters who fail to blame the whole shebang on Massone.

With a very small number of exceptions, it really is populated by complete fucktards.

Edited September 12, 2009 by jupe1407

[Benjamin_Nevis]

Accrington have to pay HMRC £308000 within the next month,so i cant see HMRC agreeing to 5p in the pound from livingston.

It has to be all or nothing and lets hope that the other creditors back HMRC as well so that in the end livi are liquidated as that is all the seem fit for.

I don't know much about this, but will the HMRC act differently in Scotland, given the different legal systems etc?

[AND180Y]

I don't know much about this, but will the HMRC act differently in Scotland, given the different legal systems etc?

I'd doubt it as it is all written down in a manual. The person dealing with it at the local DMU will have a little bit of leeway. As far as I know all CVA proposals are handled by one office in England for the whole of the UK.

[Guest]

I don't know much about this, but will the HMRC act differently in Scotland, given the different legal systems etc?

Yes, it seems they will. If they had not agreed to the proposal before hand, then the club would have been liquidated. Maybe that's another reason for some to hate the tax man even more. If said tax man is nailing Accrington to the wall but letting Livvy away virtually scot free, then there has to be something far wrong with the system. Once again though, Scotland's grubbiest outfit seem to be the beneficiaries.

[Glasgow Loon]

I don't know much about this, but will the HMRC act differently in Scotland, given the different legal systems etc?

Hmrc cant act differently in scotland to england as the tax in the same in both countries and is due to HMRC.

Accrington had agreed to pay what they were due the HMRC over a 6 month period but then the HMRC changed their minds and said you have 8 weeks to come up with the money.

[Guest]

Hmrc cant act differently in scotland to england as the tax in the same in both countries and is due to HMRC.

Accrington had agreed to pay what they were due the HMRC over a 6 month period but then the HMRC changed their minds and said you have 8 weeks to come up with the money.

Well, LFC owe the tax man near enough half a million. I certainly do not think that is what they intend to pay them. They would like to pay them 5p in the pound.

[AND180Y]

Well, LFC owe the tax man near enough half a million. I certainly do not think that is what they intend to pay them. They would like to pay them 5p in the pound.

Having read the documents again there is mention of £400,000 being paid outwith the CVA but it aint clear who to.

Now why would anyone pay £600,000+ for a bankrupt club with £40,000 of assets?

[Guest]

Having read the documents again there is mention of £400,000 being paid outwith the CVA but it aint clear who to.

Now why would anyone pay £600,000+ for a bankrupt club with £40,000 of assets?

Interesting that one of the creditors shines out like a beacon to me...........the St John's Ambulance Service. No doubt they were on duty at Almondvale today. Doubtless they too are going to be offered 5p in the pound. If that is the case, then LFC should hang their heads in shame.........both the club owners, and the supporters. These people are almost entirely made up of volunteers, and they provide an amazing service to the game..........both for players, and the spectating public. Even if Livvy rip them off, those people will be there at Almondvale next time around. For this service, they charge a pittance compared to what it would cost to bring in a private medical support organisation, yet Livingston Football Club have not paid them for a very long time.

If the supporters of Livingston decide to put one penny into any kind of fund other than one that will pay this honourable organisation every single penny of what they are owed. then personally, in my opinion, they have hit a new low. Stuff your "fighting fund". Get St John's paid.........every sodding penny of it. I await the mega response on LL.........where they have yet to have a single mention of the CVA proposal

Edited September 12, 2009 by Guest

[AND180Y]

Interesting that one of the creditors shines out like a beacon to me...........the St John's Ambulance Service. No doubt they were on duty at Almondvale today. Doubtless they too are going to be offered 5p in the pound. If that is the case, then LFC should hang their heads in shame.........both the club owners, and the supporters. These people are almost entirely made up of volunteers, and they provide an amazing service to the game..........both for players, and the spectating public. Even if Livvy rip them off, those people will be there at Almondvale next time around. For this service, they charge a pittance compared to what it would cost to bring in a private medical support organisation, yet Livingston Football Club have not paid them for a very long time.

If the supporters of Livingston decide to put one penny into any kind of fund other than one that will pay this honourable organisation every single penny of what they are owed. then personally, in my opinion, they have a new low. Stuff your "fighting fund". Get St John's paid.........every sodding penny of it.

Yep, I did kinda think along those lines when I saw that as well. The cops got bumped for over £20,000 as well so that could be one less copper keeping the streets of West Lothian safe.

I see that Flynn hadn't paid all the money for Hoolihan either.

I think there are 197 different creditors owed money!!