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Livingston - all the threads merged


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Guest Lion_Rampant
McDougall kept Cowden afloat for nearly 20 years so he knows his football. How he managed to pull this off we can only guess but it is still a long way from being finished. Good luck to him and all Livi's genuine fans.

Thankyou :D One of my best friends is a cowden fan and he only ever had good things to say about McDougall.

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What happened to many of the things he said?

We need to forget about him and move the club on. The hard work is only just beginning. It is a new start for Livi and we have one chance to get it right in your eyes. A lot of people will be working very hard to achieve this and have no doubts that we start from a very poor position indeed.

You can't just forget about him you still need him to sell the shares. When he has done so, you can forget about him.

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Alright neebur? that post by Southview was brilliant. Looking forward to seeing just how close it was.

OK, this thread looks like being near dead, see you same time, same place next close season on the Clyde or Stirling albion threads?

Very well thanks, WJR. Are you still down in Basingstoke? If you're back up at the weekend, no doubt I will catch up with you in the Malt & Hops for a beer.

Anyway, all these twists & turns at Livi have left me tired. I will away to bed and dream about the SFL's version of community service, to be handed down to Livi.

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When are we likely to find out what penalty, if any, the SFL will impose on Livingston FC?

3 months into the season when they will be sent to stand in the corner for 10 mins and not allowed to speak to anyone, then they'll be allowed to go back to their seat. They may even get a few lines to do, "we must not screw over everyone" x 100 or however many they can be bothered doing.

Basically feck all the cheating bas!

I for one will not be going anywhere near Livi and giving them any of my 'hard' earned money this season.

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Obviously delighted that I will have a team to watch this season.

I'd like to see Massone agree to sell his shares because the rule change option is not something I would want to rely on, or actually see happen as it could potentially be bad for the game in general.

Like others I can understand why there's a lot of animosity towards LFC. Our job from now on is to counter the criticism by operating properly and becoming a club that people can respect / be proud of.

I don't think anyone is under any illusions about how difficult it will be to get the club back on the straight and narrow and how long it will take but it can and will be done.

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A very heartfelt and eloquent post.

with the usual 'f**k you' in the middle

At the meeting tonight it was clear through the relief that there is a steely intention to make good all the wrongs of previous regimes. It is of course a given that not all creditors will receive what they are due.

Start as you mean to go on.

Edited by Millfield Marksman
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Pie in the sky.

The only way forward for genuine fans was to shut the doors on 14 years of shame, getting rid of scum like MCL, and go and start a club to represent their own community with it's own constitition and protection against Massone/Flynn/Keane type scam artists.

What they now have is a realisation that they can effectively rinse and repeat, and should the hard work of genuine people not quite cut it there will be those will gradually pull towards the tried and tested debt path again.

Sadly, there are always people who think cheating to win is a model of success.

Perfectly summed up.

The whole edifice of LFC was built on lies and deception and the only message that can be taken away from today is that cheating works.

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I guess that's over to you guys now. Assuming he doesn't take the money, the chairmen of your clubs can take a vote that will allow the clubs league place to be transferred meaning Massone's shares become worthless. I would suggest that at the same time some form of "fit and proper" test is also introduced. Of course there will be an element of turkeys voting for Christmas but that's where we all come in. Let your board know that you want to see bonds in place, sound business plans and fit and proper tests. Rather than having us liquidated and neatly swept under the carpet, let us prove that things can be changed for the better.

It could so easily be your club in this position. It just takes one quick sale to a potential saviour for it all to go pear shaped. Just ask Raith fans.

For me, this is the point where the whole "Save Livi" plan falls apart.

You can introduce all the tests, needs for business plans, bonds etc you like and it makes no difference from the moment you remove the rule that prevents the transfer of League Ownership as that is the only thing that exists to dissuade clubs running up huge debts and going into administration in order to clear them....they should be tightening up this rule, not offering clubs a way around it.

The proposed actions of todays meeting might save Livingston, but in the process it will totally undermine the rest of Scottish Football, and as I have said already, that's far too big a price to ask of the other clubs and the game in this country.

If it happens, or attempts are made to allow it to happen then I imagine the SFL will face legal challenges from several quarters....from teams who have already been refused what they are now proposing, from creditors who have/will lose out as a result and perhaps even from regulatory authorities......almost certainly from Massone himself.

I don't fault the fans, or the SUpporters Trust or even the new investors....right now they just want a way out, any way out and if they can do that on the cheap then even better and if my understanding of the Trust Business Plan is correct from seeing/hearing about it at the Supporters Direct Conference is correct then it is the best way forward for Livingston (and many other clubs).....once again though, it's the price that's being paid to get you to that stage that I am extremely worried about and if it's allowed then how many other clubs are going to go the same route to get a clean slate before moving down the lines you are intending? How many small businesses will go to the wall, how many people will lose jobs, how much will local authorities be expected to cough up and how much will be cheated out of the treasury?.,,,not just in West Lothian, but across the WHOLE country!!!

Edited by Caley D
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Pie in the sky.

The only way forward for genuine fans was to shut the doors on 14 years of shame, getting rid of scum like MCL, and go and start a club to represent their own community with it's own constitition and protection against Massone/Flynn/Keane type scam artists.

What they now have is a realisation that they can effectively rinse and repeat, and should the hard work of genuine people not quite cut it there will be those will gradually pull towards the tried and tested debt path again.

Sadly, there are always people who think cheating to win is a model of success.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

I feel your pain, I really do. And I'm loving it :lol:

Tomorrow's Sun

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You can introduce all the tests, needs for business plans, bonds etc you like and it makes no difference from the moment you remove the rule that prevents the transfer of League Ownership as that is the only thing that exists to dissuade clubs running up huge debts and going into administration in order to clear them....they should be tightening up this rule, not offering clubs a way around it.

It could be worse than that though. If the SFL membership becomes transferable then it wouldn't necessarily be clubs in any trouble who can cash in. The registration could be offered at any time to a body at the other end of the country (with suitable facilities). Stranraer's registration (only an example and extreme at that) could be sold to a different entity in Thurso.

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:lol: :lol: :lol:

I feel your pain, I really do. And I'm loving it :lol:

Tomorrow's Sun

Neither the decision to cheat to let Livingston survive nor your smug pride in that cheating pains me in the slightest.

While you're 'loving it' though, people have lost their jobs. On the upside however, it seems by your own admission you might profit from the situation.

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"The SFL are bending over backwards to make this work."

Well yes, quite.

And at no cost to the cheats themselves, solely to the small creditors who don't happen to be living off perks like WLC or in a position to accept write-offs like HMRC.

If this has to go down to the decision of all 30 clubs, surely with enough pressure that can be blocked?

Edited by vikingTON
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Guest penelope pitstop
Of course I'm loving it. It looked like my club was dead and buried but we have another chance now.

I had written off the amount a few times thinking I wasn't going to get anything anyway but had an inkling that I was going to have to move fast as others were starting to approach the Sheriff's Officers.

It wasn't my only source of income and I had stopped the debt getting out of hand by not adding to it. I can't believe that some businesses kept supplying even although the amounts were getting out of control.

I can imagine that creditors today won't be that happy but if I was on the new board of the club I would be reaching out to those wronged businesses and making them preferred suppliers to make up for it in a little way by giving them the business and paying in a 14 day term instead of the usual 30 days.

I can see a business opportunity for me here :D

Any business that supplies to Livi or any other football club on terms other than COD would be mad after todays little jamboree.

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Presumably the tax authorities still want paid, after all they were about to raise proceedings as well. i doubt they would wait al does not vote year so the payment will have to be made sooner rather than later and it will have to be made by McDougall/ Rankine. we are being told that WLC are also to be paid. So that is a total of about half a million that Mcdougall/ Rankine are going to have to pay. And they are going to have to pay this with absolutely no guarantee that they will ultimately get control of the club ? They could pay up and Massone still doesnt sell his shares and the sfeeel doesnt vote for a rule change ? Does anyone really believe that they would risk making such a paymeny without some sort of guarantee

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I'm not entirely clear why anyone would invest in a football club in this day and age to be honest.

Don't want to see Livi going under but this proposed rule change seems utterly absurd to me.

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Guest Lion_Rampant
Neither the decision to cheat to let Livingston survive nor your smug pride in that cheating pains me in the slightest.

While you're 'loving it' though, people have lost their jobs. On the upside however, it seems by your own admission you might profit from the situation.

Well by the club being saved and MCL loving it then more jobs have been saved that could have been lost. You are quite sad by the days events aren't you?

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I'm not entirely clear why anyone would invest in a football club in this day and age to be honest.

Don't want to see Livi going under but this proposed rule change seems utterly absurd to me.

The rule change is exactly that and I doubt that 75% of the 29 member clubs will agree to the change. If it is passed no one will lend to a club in Scotland or do a big contract without seeing the money first.

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