thejailender Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Maybe it's because it's getting late, but I'm not quite understanding something. Is Massonne still the majority share holder at Livingston ?? Is the money provided by the other two going to the same company that Massone is the majority shareholder off ?? If so would Massonne still not have the final say in everything at the club ? It's all a bit confussing 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 (edited) The point of being run by the administrator for a year is to allow negotiation of creditor repayment, probably eight pence in the pound or something derisory like that.After a year they'll be free and clear to start all over, at worst as a Second Division club. Yeah, but there is no way of making money in that league, particularly with an empty white elephant stadium like Almondvale. Which means they need debt and another rich guy to foot the bill. The new chairman and board will not allow that to happen.The club will live within its means and find its level and if thats in a lower division then so be it!..but survival looks more assured now that new backing has been found.Once Massone has relenquished his shares and is run out of town the new Livi will rise from the ashes. Obviously the new regimes business plan and the way forward that was put to the SFL today was found to be acceptable hence the survival of Livi...simple as that!...we are not totally out of the woods yet though,much depends on getting the shares from Massone or the other member clubs voting on the rule change but compared to the situation this morning its a big leap forward....the easiest and preferred way for everyone would be for Massone to take the money and walk. The SFL are hardly Dragons Den FFS, they wanted first and foremost to avoid a 9-team league. The plan gives that opportunity but little else. There is no way of making money at Livingston, no assets, no hope, frankly. Livingston have no history of living on the straight and narrow and somehow I can't see another brush with death changing this leapords' spots. Edited July 30, 2009 by vikingTON -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PELE Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Is that not like giving someone a 1000 year jail sentence.Better to give them a 25 point penalty two seasons in a row. Stuart Excellent! Give them a 25 point deduction every season until the creditors are paid every penny owed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southview Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Were you taking the minutes Southview? I feel as if I was there. Well seeing as how I wasn't getting any work done I decided to go down and offer my services as a minute taker. I refused the whisky though because I was driving but had a cup of tea while listening to the Drum Beat Mafia instead 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trainspotter Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Really? One of the hardest things to deal with through this whole thing is the feeling of powerlessness. As a supporter you can be as proactive as you want to be and come up with a whole range of ideas etc etc but with a man like Massone at the helm theres pretty much feck all you can do. Surely you have seen some of Massone's interviews? The guy is a complete joke and really he turned down any kind of help offered to him before it was all too late. You come back to me when this happens to your club and tell me that you would have been more proactive. I'll agree with you 100% in that nobody could forsee the way Massone acted and has continued to act after being cast adrift by those who brought him to Livi in the first place. However I do think that there were warning signs far earlier which appeared to be ignored, such as the late and non-payment of wages, dismissal of Hegarty. Had he been challenged more severely at that stage, who knows. Hindsight and all that though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnash Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 I've listened to the press conference and I'm struggling to understand what has really changed, other than the offer to Massone being increased and Livi being allowed to compete in matches for the next few weeks. If Massone refuses to sell - and there's nothing suggest he will change his mind - Livingston will either be liquidated in a few weeks.... or the offer and deadline will be upped again. And as for Massone being insane or retarded - surely nothing could be further from the truth. He has got exactly what he wanted from the situation and most people think it's because he's an idiot rather an conniving shitebag! I've no idea what legal issues involved would be, but surely the best situation would be for Livingston FC Ltd to be liquidated, so Massone gets nothing, and the 2 investors to take over the league place with a new club in the 3rd division. This would of course be dependent on them placing a bond and business plan to ensure the completion of at least one season, and - crucially - the commitment to pay some non-trival (at least 20%) amount to the creditors of Livingston FC Ltd. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDoctor Posted July 30, 2009 Author Share Posted July 30, 2009 If we had been relegated to the 3rd especially with a heavy point penalty then we would have folded. But you should have folded today, which is why everyone is up in arms. I don't want to see any team go out of business and I certainly don't want to see fans suffering, but the fact remains Livingston have been so badly managed that the SFL should have revoked their license to play in the league, but didn't. Massone is still the majority shareholder for a club who are in control by an administrator appointed by the Court of Session, with two "preferred bidders" and the administrator bankrolling them for the next year. Tell me that's not wrong here because I can only imagine Rankine and McDougall gave the pitches of their lives to achieve what they did today. Well done to them and it prevents another club following Gretna and Airdrieonians, which is good, but it will now surely allow Massone to try and get more dough for his shares, when he should be run out of town with nothing for allowing a team to die. Don't get me wrong, I'm pleased for the Livi fans, but if they bleat that relegation and a heavy points penalty would most surely put them out of business, then it will be justice as far as the other members clubs are concerned. You survived for now, but be thankful that happened. You've escaped the lions, but the bears are on the horizon. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDoctor Posted July 30, 2009 Author Share Posted July 30, 2009 Well seeing as how I wasn't getting any work done I decided to go down and offer my services as a minute taker.I refused the whisky though because I was driving but had a cup of tea while listening to the Drum Beat Mafia instead I take it the cricket was finished then 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lion_Rampant Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 I'll agree with you 100% in that nobody could forsee the way Massone acted and has continued to act after being cast adrift by those who brought him to Livi in the first place. However I do think that there were warning signs far earlier which appeared to be ignored, such as the late and non-payment of wages, dismissal of Hegarty. Had he been challenged more severely at that stage, who knows. Hindsight and all that though. Yeah i know what you mean. If we just had a time machine.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southview Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 I would not be too smug. Livi are still well and truly on the brink. They are only on the brink if SFL clubs refuse to change rule 21.7 and Massone still refuses to sell his shares at the end of the season. Knowing Livi's luck they will probably land Rangers and Celtic in each of the cups, making a tidy sum in the process. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PtB Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Really? Who was that then, given that Airdrieonians lost their league place upon liquidaton, which was then followed by Airdrie United's application to the SFL being declined? You know exactly what I mean. They made themselves look like c***s by letting it happen in a roundabout way. Doesn't matter how it's dressed up. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthBank Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 I've listened to the press conference and I'm struggling to understand what has really changed, other than the offer to Massone being increased and Livi being allowed to compete in matches for the next few weeks.If Massone refuses to sell - and there's nothing suggest he will change his mind - Livingston will either be liquidated in a few weeks.... or the offer and deadline will be upped again. And as for Massone being insane or retarded - surely nothing could be further from the truth. He has got exactly what he wanted from the situation and most people think it's because he's an idiot rather an conniving shitebag! I've no idea what legal issues involved would be, but surely the best situation would be for Livingston FC Ltd to be liquidated, so Massone gets nothing, and the 2 investors to take over the league place with a new club in the 3rd division. This would of course be dependent on them placing a bond and business plan to ensure the completion of at least one season, and - crucially - the commitment to pay some non-trival (at least 20%) amount to the creditors of Livingston FC Ltd. And why should two guys with no official capacity in football be allowed to start a new team with automatic entry into the SFL? When Livi dies it dies. There are other clubs who want entry with better experience and credentials and maybe even a touch of honesty and morality. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southview Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 I take it the cricket was finished then Thankfully cricket was washed out til 5 so full focus could be given to this nonsense! Nice innings from Shane Watson tonight, no bad for someone opening for the first time 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 3 points and 30k fine? 30k fine to be paid 2p in the £. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lion_Rampant Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 But you should have folded today, which is why everyone is up in arms. I don't want to see any team go out of business and I certainly don't want to see fans suffering, but the fact remains Livingston have been so badly managed that the SFL should have revoked their license to play in the league, but didn't.Massone is still the majority shareholder for a club who are in control by an administrator appointed by the Court of Session, with two "preferred bidders" and the administrator bankrolling them for the next year. Tell me that's not wrong here because I can only imagine Rankine and McDougall gave the pitches of their lives to achieve what they did today. Well done to them and it prevents another club following Gretna and Airdrieonians, which is good, but it will now surely allow Massone to try and get more dough for his shares, when he should be run out of town with nothing for allowing a team to die. Don't get me wrong, I'm pleased for the Livi fans, but if they bleat that relegation and a heavy points penalty would most surely put them out of business, then it will be justice as far as the other members clubs are concerned. You survived for now, but be thankful that happened. You've escaped the lions, but the bears are on the horizon. Easier said than done to run massone out of town with nothing. He doesn't listen to reason. I am thankful that we have survived for now and i am taking nothing forgranted. Im just glad that I have a game to go to on saturday with my mates as we have been doing so for years. If we had been hit with a points penalty then i don't think many livi fans would have complained. However, when that points penalty turns into the club going out of business and leaving supporters without a team to support then surely that is too much of a penalty? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Maybe it's because it's getting late, but I'm not quite understanding something.Is Massonne still the majority share holder at Livingston ?? Is the money provided by the other two going to the same company that Massone is the majority shareholder off ?? If so would Massonne still not have the final say in everything at the club ? It's all a bit confussing He still has the shares but the interim manager has the power not Massone. At the moment, Massone has no power at all. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stadio Delle Almondvale Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 It's clear from many posts that therte is no love lost between certain posters and Livingston. Of course it's really the former chairmen and their cronies that have caused this ill felling. It's not the majority of Livi fans who have had to suffer the wholescale humiliation over the last few years that you hate, at least I hope not. I can't really blame you for your dislike (hatred is too strong a word) but I ask that you remember that a lot of the people who have worked very hard to turn this sorry mess around don't deserve any of the abuse that has been banded about. These are people who, devoted to their club, have sought ways to bring about change. It was clear that everything Massone did was wrong, not least failing to pay staff and creditors. These hard working fans have done what any fan in a similair position would have done, protested, held back ticket purchases or actively planned for change. These are all just football fans, just like you. I ask you in all honesty, what would you have done in their place? The very same. I can't condone any the horrendous practices that Livi have participated in and never will but just screaming for the demise of the club isn't going to make everything better. It serves no purpose to make extinct senior football in West Lothian. There needs to be local alternatives in this area to the likes of the Old Firm and Hearts and Hibs. It will take years (20/30+) before Livingston can begin to really make an impression on this front. But it can and will happen and it is important for the benefit of the town and for Scottish football in general that Livingsyon FC continues in some form. Of course lessons must be learnt and I concur with the majority that something like this must never happen again. We will argue for years as to how this might come to bear. An interesting point that I see hasn't yet been mentioned (?) is that the SFL will require a bond from LFC for the upcoming season. Should Livi fail, this bond would be payable to all the Div 1 clubs so that they wouldn't suffer financially. This makes good sense and does indeed show that the SFL can do something correctly. At the meeting tonight it was clear through the relief that there is a steely intention to make good all the wrongs of previous regimes. It is of course a given that not all creditors will receive what they are due. For many local businesses the harsh reality is that although this is very bad, the removal of senior football from the locale could potentially be even worse. LFC through the games it hosts and the conferences and events that are held at the stadium, contribute quite significantly to the West Lothian area. In these economic times West Lothian does not want to miss this income. Jed Nixon made it abundantly clear that LFC would not spend more than it can generate be it in Division 1 or 3. Time will tell if we are still here by the end of 09/10 or indeed if promises uttered today will be kept. However the club will move forward, with Trust memebers on the Board of Directors and a determination to finally, do the right thing. For those out there that are queuing up to drop bombs on us please remember that by us just simply vanishing, nothing is solved. If we can come through this and perform as a socially responsible senior football club, all your criticism and scorn will have been worthwhile. Don't let us burn and die, help us to become the kind of club you want us to be and perhaps, Scottish football can become just a little bit better. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 (edited) I've listened to the press conference and I'm struggling to understand what has really changed, other than the offer to Massone being increased and Livi being allowed to compete in matches for the next few weeks.If Massone refuses to sell - and there's nothing suggest he will change his mind - Livingston will either be liquidated in a few weeks.... or the offer and deadline will be upped again. And as for Massone being insane or retarded - surely nothing could be further from the truth. He has got exactly what he wanted from the situation and most people think it's because he's an idiot rather an conniving shitebag! I've no idea what legal issues involved would be, but surely the best situation would be for Livingston FC Ltd to be liquidated, so Massone gets nothing, and the 2 investors to take over the league place with a new club in the 3rd division. This would of course be dependent on them placing a bond and business plan to ensure the completion of at least one season, and - crucially - the commitment to pay some non-trival (at least 20%) amount to the creditors of Livingston FC Ltd. They are safe until the end of the season. Those two investors will help fund the club and the interim manager will run it. Massone will have no say for the next year and will probably end up selling his shares. They've given the SFL assurances that they will fund the club there really is no going back now. They'll survive for at least another year. Edited July 30, 2009 by Sir Robert Brannan 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WJR Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Were you taking the minutes Southview? I feel as if I was there. Alright neebur? that post by Southview was brilliant. Looking forward to seeing just how close it was. OK, this thread looks like being near dead, see you same time, same place next close season on the Clyde or Stirling albion threads? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PELE Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 I heard that Massone has a new backer. They are going to move the club to Edinburgh and re-name them as Meadowbank! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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