LLD Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 But it is impossible to truly punish the people that mismanage clubs, without punishing the fans as well. The only measure you could take is ban them from owning a Scottish club again, but that would have little or no effect. Strong action needs to be taken now to ensure that the game survives in this country in the long run. The SFA etc. need to do more to prevent chancers and crooks from taking clubs over in the first place. Recent history is full of examples of financial mismanagement. There should be some bond system or greater regular checks on club finances by governing bodies. In many European countries, clubs have to obtain a licence to operate and failure to obtain one results in relegation to an appropriate level. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 (edited) We don't all have a 'sugar daddy' thats going to bail us out.There are restrictions put in place for company directors, so why not board of football clubs that might make them think twice before mis-manging. Like, erm, Northern Rock. Businesses go up the shitter pretty much regardless of regulations. Particularly ones based in an overly large stadium (rented?) with gate reciept figures that would struggle to deal with a "1st division" wagebook. Flynn says he was clear when he sold that assets were significantly outweighed by liabilities. Livingston FC was fucked then barring Massone et al having a lot of cash and the stupidity to match it. Edited November 21, 2008 by vikingTON 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glensburgh Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 I see the early Rantic has another "exclusive" Scottish Power are demanding money or the lights, quite litererly, go out at Livi. They also said no legal action was taken over the running of the HMRC story. Did Massone piss offf Jim Traynor at all? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reynard Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 The SFA etc. need to do more to prevent chancers and crooks from taking clubs over in the first place.Recent history is full of examples of financial mismanagement. There should be some bond system or greater regular checks on club finances by governing bodies. In many European countries, clubs have to obtain a licence to operate and failure to obtain one results in relegation to an appropriate level. Livi have never been owned by anything other than chancers and crooks. I see the Tiber foaming with much blood. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LLD Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 Livingston FC was fucked then barring Massone et al having a lot of cash and the stupidity to match it. They tick one of your boxes anyway... The big issue with Livingston FC, and this goes back to the early days after the move from Edinburgh, is that everyone who has owned it has been under the delusion that we are a Premier League club. Had the club grown organically and found it's level (which I think is the First Division) we'd have much stronger foundations. The best thing that could happen IMHO is for us to be relegated to the Third Division after a bout of admin where we could start again with a clean slate and a sensible business plan. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reynard Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 They tick one of your boxes anyway... The big issue with Livingston FC, and this goes back to the early days after the move from Edinburgh, is that everyone who has owned it has been under the delusion that we are a Premier League club. Had the club grown organically and found it's level (which I think is the First Division) we'd have much stronger foundations. The best thing that could happen IMHO is for us to be relegated to the Third Division after a bout of admin where we could start again with a clean slate and a sensible business plan. Realistically, with the crowds you get , your level is a league below. Ayr and Raith are much bigger clubs that Livi. Livi are more or less the same size of a club as the likes of Stirling Albion. They will have a season or two in the first division but realistically their crowd base only supports second division and part time football. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reynard Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 You should be grateful tbh Too right. I said it at the time that theres no way we should be even thinking about that sort of money for a guy like that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LLD Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 Realistically, with the crowds you get , your level is a league below. Ayr and Raith are much bigger clubs that Livi. Livi are more or less the same size of a club as the likes of Stirling Albion. They will have a season or two in the first division but realistically their crowd base only supports second division and part time football. On the crowds we get now, we are a yo-yo team between First and Second. Of similar stature to Ross County, Ayr, Raith, Airdrie, Clyde and Hamilton. Circumstances have driven attendances down over the past few years. We were pulling in double what we get now in the Second / Third Division to start with. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Master Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 ...expunged... Ah, how I love that word. I missed it when Gretna finally went bust 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Darwin Esq Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 I'm going to boycott spaghetti in protest. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingfaetheSooth Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 Your first point is just pathetic, no fans deserve their club to go and you of all people should understand that. Your second point, on the other hand, is ridiculous. Comparing Livi and Gretna is farcical. Livi have brought something to the leagues as a football team and easily have the setup to compete at this level. There debt isn't a million miles away from some other first division clubs either. They have a youth setup bringing through better players than any other in the division bar Dundee too and could certainly teach our respective clubs something in that regard. Livvie have no real history or built up fan base to pull them through - no one really cares that much if they go under - like Gretna they are a manufactured team. Livi have never been owned by anything other than chancers and crooks. The big issue with Livingston FC, and this goes back to the early days after the move from Edinburgh, is that everyone who has owned it has been under the delusion that we are a Premier League club. Livingston FC can hardly claim to have lifelong supporters - at least not anyone over the age of about 20 - which means they are going to be very short of well established businesmen with a bob or two to spare who recall fondly standing on the terraces as a nipper. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Darwin Esq Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 You know, if I was a Buddhist, I'd believe in karma. But believing in what goes around comes around, I'd go against the grain and sincerely hope your entire family wasn't wiped out in a freak camel incident. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDoctor Posted November 21, 2008 Author Share Posted November 21, 2008 I'm curious to know what Davie Hay makes of it all. After all, one of the Italian owners (can't remember which one) is his son-in-law. I'm sure Davie would have told him in no uncertain terms that you deal with the Inland Revenue. That isn't negotiable. You have to feel sorry for him in a way. He's been brought back as a consultant of some description for a club with whom he enjoyed great success, but can only watch his son-in-law and his pal make an arse of the whole thing. I can't imagine he would be too chuffed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reynard Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 On the crowds we get now, we are a yo-yo team between First and Second. Of similar stature to Ross County, Ayr, Raith, Airdrie, Clyde and Hamilton. Circumstances have driven attendances down over the past few years. We were pulling in double what we get now in the Second / Third Division to start with. Yes, you are down to your core support just now. A struggling team in recent years and a lack of any real fanbase has culled most of the folk who were hapy to tag along and watch a winning side. And even though you have been doing well this season it looks like most of the hangers on that turned up to watch you when you went through the leagues can't really handle a downturn in fortunes. They are staying away and it's doubtful they will ever come back. Livi are a much smaller club that Ayr Utd and Raith Rovers. Like I mentioned already, they are only really fit for part time football with the level of support they have. Ayr and Raith have lost support due to similar circumstances to Livi i.e.dreadful form over a few seasons and general depression surrounding the clubs. But make no mistake, if they got their act together they would both have pretty healthy first division sized supports. Livi just don't have that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glensburgh Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 from my post of early this morning.............. let there be light? , only if you pay 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAFC Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 St Mirren fans lording it up over another club's potential demise yet again. Maybe they are insecure about something? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthLanarkshireWhite Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 So in a desperate attempt to find good news, would this mean no relegation and two up from Div 2? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allstars #9 Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 What am saying is its hardly fair punishing fans (from whatever club they come from including yours!). Sanctions should be taken against the people that mis-manage clubs. wonder what "punishment" one of the main culprits in mismanaging my club got ??? Oh that's right the top Job In Scottish Football corruption it's the future 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 I'm curious to know what Davie Hay makes of it all. After all, one of the Italian owners (can't remember which one) is his son-in-law. I'm sure Davie would have told him in no uncertain terms that you deal with the Inland Revenue. That isn't negotiable.You have to feel sorry for him in a way. He's been brought back as a consultant of some description for a club with whom he enjoyed great success, but can only watch his son-in-law and his pal make an arse of the whole thing. I can't imagine he would be too chuffed. No you don't. He's an arse. If Livvy do hit the skids and Hay is involved it would be fantastic. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDoctor Posted November 21, 2008 Author Share Posted November 21, 2008 No you don't. He's an arse. If Livvy do hit the skids and Hay is involved it would be fantastic. Why are all the St Mirren fans revelling in this? Have I missed something here? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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