Livingston - all the threads merged

[EdinburghLivi]

A nice sell on from Dykes in the summer would be great. Annoying that QPR turned down £3m in January, especially since they are far from certain to survive at the moment. 

Edited April 7, 2023 by EdinburghLivi

[LiviLion]

21 minutes ago, EdinburghLivi said:

Martindale has said £80-100k for VAR. As I've been ranting about, I hope our club are petitioning to get rid in the Summer given the fan experience and nonsense decisions that have gone against us. 

Martindale was one of the biggest advocates for getting VAR in as well which pisses me off even more every time I see him moaning about the cost, doubt he'd make such a big U-turn but we can hope

[Buttocks Brown]

Martindale on "Sacked in the Morning" was fascinating.... best football listen I've heard for awhile.

[LIVIFOREVER]

It's just a pity our back to back top 6 finishes and cup final were during covid shut downs, we missed out in big gates going into the last 3 pre split games against Hearts, and post split playing one of the erse cheeks at home, would prob have got about 5-6 thousand Hearts fans through and sold out the stadium to Sevco fans, then the whole next season with empty stadiums and another 4 sell outs.

Then we keep fucking it up since, losing out in the last day last season, and after sitting 4th a few weeks back we're down to 7th and not looking great making it this season. 

I mean that top 6 game against Sevco prob brings in at least 230K with gate money and hospo sold out. Then add on the extra prize money, it would be a huge bonus for us making top 6.

Edited April 7, 2023 by LIVIFOREVER

[Durnford]

2 hours ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

It's just a pity our back to back top 6 finishes and cup final were during covid shut downs, we missed out in big gates going into the last 3 pre split games against Hearts, and post split playing one of the erse cheeks at home, would prob have got about 5-6 thousand Hearts fans through and sold out the stadium to Sevco fans, then the whole next season with empty stadiums and another 4 sell outs.

Then we keep fucking it up since, losing out in the last day last season, and after sitting 4th a few weeks back we're down to 7th and not looking great making it this season. 

I mean that top 6 game against Sevco prob brings in at least 230K with gate money and hospo sold out. Then add on the extra prize money, it would be a huge bonus for us making top 6.

Actually I think I read if we got into the top six we'd have both of the Old Firm at home (to equal out the 19 games at home and 19 games away anomaly of the split).

[Durnford]

3 hours ago, EdinburghLivi said:

Martindale has said £80-100k for VAR. As I've been ranting about, I hope our club are petitioning to get rid in the Summer given the fan experience and nonsense decisions that have gone against us. 

When we were explaining the non-use of VAR against ICT in the cup; Martindale said we couldn't justify the £10k per game that it cost.

Seemed a lot to me at the time but pretty sure that's what he said.

[Durnford]

3 hours ago, EdinburghLivi said:

A nice sell on from Dykes in the summer would be great. Annoying that QPR turned down £3m in January, especially since they are far from certain to survive at the moment. 

Agreed - even a 10% sell-on clause would make thing a lot more positive.

[LiviLion]

19 minutes ago, Durnford said:

Agreed - even a 10% sell-on clause would make thing a lot more positive.

I believe it's 15% but only on the profit QPR make, I'm sure Queen of the South are due something like 15% of our 15%.

In the scenario of him being sold for £3m we'd be getting £195k, roughly £25k of which would go to QoS, and then I'm not sure if there's anything in the deal for Lyndon or his agent as a cut from anything left too. Doesn't sound as enticing when it's laid out like that but not to be sniffed at, here's hoping he has a blistering end of the season and goes for silly money.

[TAFKAC]

Two-year extension for Holt...

[EdinburghLivi]

 

Didn't see that coming. Great news! Hopefully the certainty will help him get back to his best.

Edited April 7, 2023 by EdinburghLivi

[Lothiangamer]

Did not expect to hear about any extensions until after the split to see whether we managed to get top 6 or not. Brilliant news. 

[Cptn Hooch]

For me it was a toss up between Holt or Devlin staying. Glad we've kept one of them. Holt's experience and calm head are vital for us and with Devlin more or less confirmed as leaving, we have an easy choice for our club captain

[LIVIFOREVER]

2 hours ago, Durnford said:

Actually I think I read if we got into the top six we'd have both of the Old Firm at home (to equal out the 19 games at home and 19 games away anomaly of the split).

Even better then if we can manage it this season, could be worth around 500K just for those 2 games.

2 hours ago, Durnford said:

When we were explaining the non-use of VAR against ICT in the cup; Martindale said we couldn't justify the £10k per game that it cost.

Seemed a lot to me at the time but pretty sure that's what he said.

I think that was just for cup games, the league VAR is split between all the clubs, some pay more than others, depending how much prize money they get. One off VAR games in the cup is a lot more expensive, certainly isn't worth it for us, and the way it has worked out we'd be better off without it. Might've been a bit more even if we'd converted the half dozen penalties we've missed right enough.

[ATLIS]

I wonder if Holt has signed on knowing he's been promised the captaincy, great news that he's staying though. Hopefully now he gets back into the team and plays a bit better now that his future is sorted 

[ATLIS]

12 hours ago, Durnford said:

All good points but the undeniable fact is that we had and continue to have consistently poor home crowds. Rarely is the West Stand catering for more than about 1600 (probably nearer 1200 when you remove hospitality and away team family and friends allocation}.

This is at the backdrop of a club that has been consistently performing in or around the top half of the top division in Scotland. This is even more galling when you consider there are possibly 5 teams in the championship with better home support.

The free tickets to schools idea worked well almost quarter of a century ago; but, in order for it to be effective, it needs to be persistent i.e. maybe half a dozen games in a row to build up the habit. I doubt whether a game here and there has made any impact to the PATG numbers for the following games at all.

The thing is though, we aren't budgeting for the home stand having more than 1k in the first place. If you're taking things in context though, 5/6 years ago we had a season ticket base of 700, now it's likely around 1,000. That's around 42% up is it not? It'd place us having 1,420 in 5 years, 10 years we're at just over 2,000. Nothing to say that it's a trend that will follow and a lot can happen but we're trending upwards. 

The payoff for free tickets is one you see in the longer term, it's not specifically something that kicks on instantly but it's a necessary thing for us to do and build a presence in the community again. If it was cost effective I wouldn't be against the club just doing it for most games next season but you don't want to dilute it to the point people don't get excited about it. 

I don't think there's a lot to panic about regarding this loss though. We've got the favourable loan to cover it, other clubs are making bigger losses (Aberdeen 5m etc). They'll probably be on a good chunk of loss again this season too

Edited April 7, 2023 by ATLIS

[Cptn Hooch]

14 hours ago, ATLIS said:

I wonder if Holt has signed on knowing he's been promised the captaincy, great news that he's staying though. Hopefully now he gets back into the team and plays a bit better now that his future is sorted 

I also wonder if him and Martindale are thinking of a Bartley style set up. His new deal takes him to 32 and it's not impossible we could see him get involved in coaching the youth teams etc. Would fit with the Martindale ethos of continuity and Holt strikes me as the type of player that would excel as a coach

[Guest]

On 07/04/2023 at 09:24, Thenorthernlight said:

Aye, similarish to Hamilton.

Livi have punched well above their weight for a while, like Hamilton did.

I’d fear for them if they ever got relegated, they may keep going… like Hamilton appear to be doing.

 

Support size matters but I think the competence of a club's decision makers might be the largest factor.

At Livi we got lucky when a very competent chairman came along. His manager choices of David Hopkin and Gary Holt both worked extremely well. He has also facilitated Martindale's increasing influence. He first recognised Martindale's talent for player recruitment then latterly his coaching and management ability.

Hamilton made exceptional choices with Billy Reid then even more so with Alex Neil. Martin Canning and Brian Rice both did decent jobs yet had nowhere near the ability of their predecessors. Their squad turnover wasn't quite managed correctly either. Failing to replace experienced mainstays Dougie Imrie and Darian MacKinnon in part led to the relegation season.

As for relegation from Championship to League One, while club support size of course comes into it because that affects budgets, the competence of club decision makers is still so important. For example, Dunfermline have a large support but their new owners made a terrible manager choice in Peter Grant last season. The equally poor next choice of John Hughes compounded things and led to relegation. (They've since got it right with James McPake this season).

Edited April 8, 2023 by FreedomFarter

[EdinburghLivi]

Defence selling the rest of the team down the river at the moment. Absolutely awful since that Inverness game.

[Cptn Hooch]

2 minutes ago, EdinburghLivi said:

Defence selling the rest of the team down the river at the moment. Absolutely awful since that Inverness game.

I don't know who taught them how to play the offside trap but they are rotten at it

[EdinburghLivi]

1 minute ago, Cptn Hooch said:

I don't know who taught them how to play the offside trap but they are rotten at it

Agreed. Shamal also not doing much to stop the chances when they are coming through. Hopefully hyped up enough by the media that someone comes in for him and doesn't notice.