Livingston - all the threads merged

[SUPERSOUTH]

19 hours ago, SUPERSOUTH said:

Queens have Only 2 loans the now, Kadia Livi & Dabrowski hibs so allowed another 3 wouldn't be surprised to see Cancar come and possibly young RB Logan from Hearts. 

Updated we now have 3 loans signed Logan today, still space for Cancar though.. 

[Troy.1995]

1 hour ago, SUPERSOUTH said:

Updated we now have 3 loans signed Logan today, still space for Cancar though.. 

Big Marv knows Cancar so well. Reckon he'd do a good job for Queens. He's got it in him to do well at this level,with respect.

[thruthenight]

Inspired by watching Motherwell on Sportscene, and being a fully paid up member of the Shamal George fan club - where does Shamal lie on the list of quality keepers that we've had since coming up? I think I'd put him top of the list:

Shamal

Sarkic

Kelly

Stryjek

Ivan, Schofield, Stewart, Barden, Maley

McCrorie

[Cptn Hooch]

8 minutes ago, thruthenight said:

Inspired by watching Motherwell on Sportscene, and being a fully paid up member of the Shamal George fan club - where does Shamal lie on the list of quality keepers that we've had since coming up? I think I'd put him top of the list:

Shamal

Sarkic

Kelly

Stryjek

Ivan, Schofield, Stewart, Barden, Maley

McCrorie

Shamal/Sarkic - much of a muchness between them. Shamal the better shot stopper but Sarkic the better kicker

Stryjek - On his day he was comfortably one of the best keepers in the league. That save against rangers from the Barasic free kick in the dying minutes of the game was unbelievable. Seems to have kicked on again down south

Kelly - Prone to letting the ball slip under him at times but all round very good keeper

Ivan - Penalty save king for the reserves and looked very well rounded, shame it hasn't worked out for him

Stewart - was ok as a backup, very much a "meh" opinion

Schofield - Hard to judge with the limited playing time but put in a really good performance at Ibrox

Barden - Another one hard to judge with limited appearances but looked a capable young keeper

Maley - 100% Clean Sheet record in the Premiership and actual chills when the big man came on

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

McCrorie - How he's been involved with the Scotland squad scares me

 

 

[hoobahabba]

Sarkic was next level. I’d put him ahead of Shamal, though it’s early days. Shamal then a good bit ahead of our other prem goalies. Agree with McCrorie being rock bottom. He was very unconvincing. He was good at coming off his line, something I think shamal could improve on, but a terrible shot stopper and unreliable coming for crosses. 

[Guest]

Not an ordered ranking here, just a comment on each as they come to me:

Konovalov's cat-like claw away of Brophy's header in the home match against St Mirren in December is the best individual save from a Livi keeper in recent times.

Liam Kelly was inspirational for us in the 18/19 season. A strong on-pitch personality to add to his talent.

Stryjek lacked consistency but had some incredible matches for us. Away to Dundee in the earlier part of last season was especially memorable.

I couldn't be happier with George. He came in at an already very high level and is still improving further all the time.

Sarkic was a class act and his distribution particularly to Dykes was a huge advantage.

McCrorie was excellent at sweeping and good at one-on-ones but weak with high crosses.

Edited February 5, 2023 by FreedomFarter

[EdinburghLivi]

3 hours ago, hoobahabba said:

Sarkic was next level. I’d put him ahead of Shamal, though it’s early days. Shamal then a good bit ahead of our other prem goalies. Agree with McCrorie being rock bottom. He was very unconvincing. He was good at coming off his line, something I think shamal could improve on, but a terrible shot stopper and unreliable coming for crosses. 

Ross Stewart was worse than McCrorie, imho. Saved absolutely nothing that wasn't a routine save whereas McCrorie would occasionally pull something out the bag.

[hoobahabba]

2 hours ago, EdinburghLivi said:

Ross Stewart was worse than McCrorie, imho. Saved absolutely nothing that wasn't a routine save whereas McCrorie would occasionally pull something out the bag.

Agreed. I was only really thinking about keepers who got a consistent run in the team. 

 

[LIVIFOREVER]

Sarkic-I'd have him top, all round great keeper and his kicking is what puts him above Shamal, prob the best at it since Broto.

Shamal-Getting better all the time and looks a great signing, his kicking needs to improve though.

Kelly-2nd spell was excellent for us, with the odd blip like Motherwell away.

Stryjek-excellent keeper when focussed.

Konolov-Good shot stopper .

I would class all of them good enough to be No 1's for us.

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McCrorie-has his flaws, but you could get by with him in goals for a short period.

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Rest would give me the fear having them in goals for us, esp if it was for a few games.

==============================================================

Schwake looks a good prospect, getting good experience with Morton.

 

Edited February 5, 2023 by LIVIFOREVER

[thruthenight]

I feel like there are some rose-tinted specs floating around re Sarkic. His kicking was phenomenal, but he also was prone to a blunder every now and then. 

9 hours ago, FreedomFarter said:

Konovalov's cat-like claw away of Brophy's header in the home match against St Mirren in December is the best individual save from a Livi keeper in recent times.

This is an interesting question. I think I'd give it to Max's free kick save from Barisic.

[LIVIFOREVER]

Feel by the time Sarkic left us he was a cracking keeper, Shamal will be the same, he's not the best yet imo, but could be as i've seen an improvement from him.

 

Seen as we've started comparisons on past players, Fernandez or Nouble, who's the best?

Loved Bingham too but Fernandez is my best Livi player ever, but i'll tell you, Nouble is getting close to taking that title.

Edited February 5, 2023 by LIVIFOREVER

[Guest]

Fernandez was the better player. To have made that number of appearances for Depor (regular La Liga title contenders in that era) shows his quality. It was only the significant disparity between the economies of UK and Spain at the time which tempted him to come to Scotland and play below his level.

Joel Nouble is my favourite of the two, though. He'd never played beyond the 5th tier of English football due to being wrongly typecast there as a target man. Martindale spotted his true talent was his ball control, dribbling, creative passing and composed mentality. Fantastic mix of skill and athleticism. Had the humility to accept a loan to Arbroath before getting a chance at Livi. Works extremely hard for his team. He's an absolute treasure and I'm savouring every moment we get to watch him playing for Livi.

[hoobahabba]

2 hours ago, thruthenight said:

I feel like there are some rose-tinted specs floating around re Sarkic. His kicking was phenomenal, but he also was prone to a blunder every now and then. 

This is an interesting question. I think I'd give it to Max's free kick save from Barisic.

 Slightly shaky in his first appearance against Forfar then one mistake against Motherwell. Outside of that, he was absolutely solid. The fact that he's gone on to play at a much higher level, compared to the likes of Kelly and Stryjek who have moved sideways, bears out his superiority. No rose-tinting whatsoever.

[hoobahabba]

2 minutes ago, FreedomFarter said:

Fernandez was the better player. To have made that number of appearances for Depor (regular La Liga title contenders in that era) shows his quality. It was only the significant disparity between the economies of UK and Spain at the time which tempted him to come to Scotland and play below his level.

Joel Nouble is my favourite of the two, though. He'd never played beyond the 5th tier of English football due to being wrongly typecast there as a target man. Martindale spotted his true talent was his ball control, dribbling, creative passing and composed mentality. Fantastic mix of skill and athleticism. Had the humility to accept a loan to Arbroath before getting a chance at Livi. Works extremely hard for his team. He's an absolute treasure and I'm savouring every moment we get to watch him playing for Livi.

The Fernandez comparisons are valid. They are both unpredictable, enigmatic and thoroughly entertaining players. I think you're spot on with your assessment, however. Fernandez was a better all round player and could have gone much further in his career had it not been for a bad move to Celtic then injury. There is something about Nouble that catches the eye even more, however. And that's a bold statement given how highly regarded Fernandez is among Livi fans. He is unlike any player I've ever seen play for us with his mixture of skill and physicality. If he could only match this with finishing, he'd be playing in the Premier League. But, though continuously improving, there is a notable gap between the rest of his skills and his goal scoring ability. He is a perfect partner to Anderson, who is lethal in front of goal, and I'm absolutely buzzing to see more of them playing up front together. 

[ExiledLichtie]

11 minutes ago, FreedomFarter said:

Fernandez was the better player. To have made that number of appearances for Depor (regular La Liga title contenders in that era) shows his quality. It was only the significant disparity between the economies of UK and Spain at the time which tempted him to come to Scotland and play below his level.

Joel Nouble is my favourite of the two, though. He'd never played beyond the 5th tier of English football due to being wrongly typecast there as a target man. Martindale spotted his true talent was his ball control, dribbling, creative passing and composed mentality. Fantastic mix of skill and athleticism. Had the humility to accept a loan to Arbroath before getting a chance at Livi. Works extremely hard for his team. He's an absolute treasure and I'm savouring every moment we get to watch him playing for Livi.

I'd argue that it was the loan to Arbroath that showed what he could do.  Look at his first couple appearances after you snatched him back from us, he was seen as the big man up front.  It took a while for Livi to deploy him like we did.

But after that, I think he's got better and better for Livi, I'm enjoying seeing him look more dangerous in front of goal too.

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, ExiledLichtie said:

I'd argue that it was the loan to Arbroath that showed what he could do.  Look at his first couple appearances after you snatched him back from us, he was seen as the big man up front.  It took a while for Livi to deploy him like we did.

But after that, I think he's got better and better for Livi, I'm enjoying seeing him look more dangerous in front of goal too.

I think the "big man up front" thing was the media's framing based on a single match against Rangers (this season's opener). I don't think it was ever Martindale's understanding of Nouble as a player. There were factors in Nouble beginning the season as a lone central striker. Our usual centre forward Bruce Anderson had an incomplete pre-season and had played only sporadically in the League Cup games prior to that Rangers match. Rangers were highly rated back then and recent Europa League finalists. Therefore they were expected to dominate possession against us in that match. Martindale has spoken of Nouble's ability to "make the ball stick" when playing at centre forward meaning its his ball control rather than aerial ability being utilised. Nouble was excellent in that Rangers match so continued in the position for a few matches after. The idea was always to get Anderson back into the side once ready, though.

I do agree about Nouble's time at Arbroath, though. It likely was key in giving him the confidence to base his game on his skill rather than prioritising just his physicality as he'd been restricted to in England.

[LIVIFOREVER]

The thing about Nouble is he's perfect in a Martindale team, able to play in several positions, Davie loves moving players about the pitch covering as many positions as they can play in. Nouble is great on either wing, and when he drifts into the central position to get long balls kicked up to him he's perfect for that too. Love that he just takes on 3 or 4 players (as Fernandez did) and can get to the bye line then somehow dribble it past them and get the ball into the box, or take a shot himself.

As well as we were doing without him in an unbeaten 6 games before losing to Celtic, Nouble being back yesterday was another level again for us, he was unplayable in that first half and gave us so much more attacking threat getting us up the pitch. Also occupies 2 or 3 opposition players having to mark him which opens up space for other players. We're really going to enjoy seeing him playing with Bruce, St Kelly, Bradley and Pittman the rest of the season, i'm really confident of a top 6 place going into the split, i think we'll secure it with a few pts to spare. 

[Cptn Hooch]

4 hours ago, ExiledLichtie said:

I'd argue that it was the loan to Arbroath that showed what he could do.  Look at his first couple appearances after you snatched him back from us, he was seen as the big man up front.  It took a while for Livi to deploy him like we did.

But after that, I think he's got better and better for Livi, I'm enjoying seeing him look more dangerous in front of goal too.

That was more down to Anderson not being fit and needing that focal point at the top end of the park.

[The Wrong Car]

Aye, was Nouble not signed to essentially mimic JET, who's best spell came when played out wide?

There's no doubt the Arbroath loan worked out perfectly however, I doubt you'd see JET do as much defensive work as Nouble would. 

It terms of keepers I'd go

1) Sarkic - a few mistakes initially but clearly a top keeper. Only possible downside to judging him is the fact he played half a season 

2) Kelly - much improved from his League 1 loan when he came back permanently, especially given he replaced the experience of Alexander 

3) George - Very impressive so far

4) Stryjek - Probably a good keeper over his entire Livi career, but had the odd spell of being calamitous. Given his pre-season performance against Morton then ICT, it's probably best we got rid

5) Konovalov - the best backup we've had, shame it hasn't quite worked out

6) McCrorie - started off poorly when he chucked one in at Hamilton, and somehow got worse. 

7 ) Stewart - a dreadful keeper who was given plenty of opportunities to be No.1

Schofield, Hamilton & Maley don't really play enough to judge 

[ATLIS]

6 hours ago, ExiledLichtie said:

I'd argue that it was the loan to Arbroath that showed what he could do.  Look at his first couple appearances after you snatched him back from us, he was seen as the big man up front.  It took a while for Livi to deploy him like we did.

But after that, I think he's got better and better for Livi, I'm enjoying seeing him look more dangerous in front of goal too.

I really don't agree with that at all. He was signed based on a recommendation from JET that he was a similar style player (a big strong guy that's skilful with the ball). We absolutely knew about his qualities, he only really played up front at the time because Anderson had an injury and we had no fit striker at the time. It was basically just out of desperation that he played there, once Bruce was fit again Nouble went out to the wing. Only against Rangers/Celtic does he play up front on his own -  but even that still works