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According to this article, our rearranged game against Celtic is Wed 21st December. Aberdeen vs Rangers and Celtic vs Livingston given new fixtures dates after postponement during Queen’s death mourning period - Football Scotland

 

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It will be both clubs second game back after the World Cup with Rangers due to face Hibs at Ibrox on December 17, while Celtic will take on Aberdeen at Pittodrie on the same day.

It also means both sides have five games in 15 days over the festive period, finishing with an Old Firm derby at Ibrox on January 2.

 

Typical reporting not interested in anything but Sevco and Celtic, as if we all don't have the same amount of games to play. Our fixtures for that period will be

image.png.1e9b7bd53b53ab607700c900d7007902.png

 

With Celtic away on the 21st Dec, making it 5 games too.

Edited by LIVIFOREVER
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Hello @LIVIFOREVER

Let's leave the Tinpot thread alone.

Now, you accused me of 'making shit up' on the other thread.

I'd like you to back this up.

Here are my assertions about your franchise.

1) Your community stole a community asset when it took Meadowbank away from its fanbase (against their will) and changed its name. The inducement of the stadium and the involvement of local government makes this exactly the same as what we see in American sports.

2) Your continued claim on Meadowbank's history is grossly offensive to anyone who understands what a football club is. You are not the guardians of their history, you are thieves.

3) Livi fans' false comparisons with the change from Ferranti either display dishonesty, willful ignorance, or lack of understanding of why that change was made. It was a local move to a stadium that would allow the club to play SFL fixtures with a name change away from a commercial one to one that reflected the area they played in. To even attempt to paint this as in any way similar to Livingston stealing another community's club is idiotic, and again, offensive.

So, tell me what I'm making up.

Edited by VincentGuerin
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3 hours ago, VincentGuerin said:

Hello @LIVIFOREVER

Let's leave the Tinpot thread alone.

Now, you accused me of 'making shit up' on the other thread.

I'd like you to back this up.

Here are my assertions about your franchise.

1) Your community stole a community asset when it took Meadowbank away from its fanbase (against their will) and changed its name. The inducement of the stadium and the involvement of local government makes this exactly the same as what we see in American sports.

2) Your continued claim on Meadowbank's history is grossly offensive to anyone who understands what a football club is. You are not the guardians of their history, you are thieves.

3) Livi fans' false comparisons with the change from Ferranti either display dishonesty, willful ignorance, or lack of understanding of why that change was made. It was a local move to a stadium that would allow the club to play SFL fixtures with a name change away from a commercial one to one that reflected the area they played in. To even attempt to paint this as in any way similar to Livingston stealing another community's club is idiotic, and again, offensive.

So, tell me what I'm making up.

Yawn. Do you think your moral stance against Livi is in any way original? We hear this sort of shit all the time, albeit rarely with as much bitterness. The majority of us are simply not interested in Meadowbank Thistle. Save your breath.

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I really love Almondview podcast but holy f**k the Dolly Menga story on the episode when they had Martindale on is utterly phenomenal.

Holding the ball in the corner 1-0 down against Rangers because he thought it was 0-0. Getting caught in the bookies at Da Vinci's scoffing Greggs. Spending all his wages at the bookies and on FIFA. Christmas tree up in April. What a fucking nightmare of a guy, I cannot believe trying to handle him.

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6 hours ago, ATLIS said:

I think Guerin might be the only person left that actually cares about Meadowbank :D Clearly he was very hurt by that club's death

That’s extremely untrue.  
 

Considering your clubs had a few near misses you should be a bit more empathic to a community that lost its football club through sheer greed and disregard.

Has Livingston fc worked? Not in the way it was meant to when first created or even ten years after birth but I’ll be honest, it has its place in Scottish football.  

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17 hours ago, VincentGuerin said:

Hello @LIVIFOREVER

Let's leave the Tinpot thread alone.

Now, you accused me of 'making shit up' on the other thread.

I'd like you to back this up.

Here are my assertions about your franchise.

1) Your community stole a community asset when it took Meadowbank away from its fanbase (against their will) and changed its name. The inducement of the stadium and the involvement of local government makes this exactly the same as what we see in American sports.

2) Your continued claim on Meadowbank's history is grossly offensive to anyone who understands what a football club is. You are not the guardians of their history, you are thieves.

3) Livi fans' false comparisons with the change from Ferranti either display dishonesty, willful ignorance, or lack of understanding of why that change was made. It was a local move to a stadium that would allow the club to play SFL fixtures with a name change away from a commercial one to one that reflected the area they played in. To even attempt to paint this as in any way similar to Livingston stealing another community's club is idiotic, and again, offensive.

So, tell me what I'm making up.

Your 1) and 3) points have a lot of overlap so I'll reply to them both simultaneously.

1) and 3):  The club was only at Meadowbank in the first place because of the "inducement of a stadium", as you put it, moving it there from Pilton. In that wider area of north Edinburgh there had always been and still are multiple transient clubs which ground hop, all facilitated by the council. When Ferranti left City Park, Spartans moved in shortly after. When Meadowbank left Meadowbank stadium, Edinburgh City moved in that very same summer. Edinburgh City had even been at City Park prior to Ferranti moving there. 

You dismiss the transition from Ferranti to Meadowbank because to accept the importance of it would ruin your argument. How many Meadowbank fans were Ferranti fans? The answer is zero, or very close to it. A daft wee works team was not on the agenda of the flat cap wearing old boys who watched football in that part of Edinburgh at the time. They only showed up once the club moved to their fancy new stadium and began playing in the "professional" leagues. This was the divide. The John Bain clique were founders, there from the beginning of the Ferranti days. They had built it. Therefore they argued it was their club before it was those of the Meadowbank fans opposed to the Livingston move (worth noting that wasn't all Meadowbank fans, though it was a significant majority). 

There was a dark side to the move (my opinion) and that was the involvement of Bill Hunter. It's clear to me that he was in it to try and make a profit. He thought he could turn the football club into something he could then sell on. Profit was not the motive for the John Bain clique and West Lothian council's support for the move to Livingston. The Bain clique wanted their club to be open to a larger potential support as well as a different character of support, with the comparatively young population of Livingston. West Lothian council wanted a professional football club for their residents.

2) John Bain and acolytes, who founded the club and built it up from nothing, who were there before any Meadowbank fan showed up and before the club even was Meadowbank, they weren't allowed to preserve their own club's history? And if Livingston don't remember Ferranti and Meadowbank, who will? Where're your Ferranti and Meadowbank museums? 
 

Edited by FreedomFarter
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5 hours ago, ATLIS said:

I really love Almondview podcast but holy f**k the Dolly Menga story on the episode when they had Martindale on is utterly phenomenal.

Holding the ball in the corner 1-0 down against Rangers because he thought it was 0-0. Getting caught in the bookies at Da Vinci's scoffing Greggs. Spending all his wages at the bookies and on FIFA. Christmas tree up in April. What a fucking nightmare of a guy, I cannot believe trying to handle him.

What episode is that 😂 will get that on in the van today 

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4 hours ago, FreedomFarter said:

Your 1) and 3) points have a lot of overlap so I'll reply to them both simultaneously.

1) and 3):  The club was only at Meadowbank in the first place because of the "inducement of a stadium", as you put it, moving it there from Pilton. In that wider area of north Edinburgh there had always been and still are multiple transient clubs which ground hop, all facilitated by the council. When Ferranti left City Park, Spartans moved in shortly after. When Meadowbank left Meadowbank stadium, Edinburgh City moved in that very same summer. Edinburgh City had even been at City Park prior to Ferranti moving there. 

You dismiss the transition from Ferranti to Meadowbank because to accept the importance of it would ruin your argument. How many Meadowbank fans were Ferranti fans? The answer is zero, or very close to it. A daft wee works team was not on the agenda of the flat cap wearing old boys who watched football in that part of Edinburgh at the time. They only showed up once the club moved to their fancy new stadium and began playing in the "professional" leagues. This was the divide. The John Bain clique were founders, there from the beginning of the Ferranti days. They had built it. Therefore they argued it was their club before it was those of the Meadowbank fans opposed to the Livingston move (worth noting that wasn't all Meadowbank fans, though it was a significant majority). 

There was a dark side to the move (my opinion) and that was the involvement of Bill Hunter. It's clear to me that he was in it to try and make a profit. He thought he could turn the football club into something he could then sell on. Profit was not the motive for the John Bain clique and West Lothian council's support for the move to Livingston. The Bain clique wanted their club to be open to a larger potential support as well as a different character of support, with the comparatively young population of Livingston. West Lothian council wanted a professional football club for their residents.

2) John Bain and acolytes, who founded the club and built it up from nothing, who were there before any Meadowbank fan showed up and before the club even was Meadowbank, they weren't allowed to preserve their own club's history? And if Livingston don't remember Ferranti and Meadowbank, who will? Where're your Ferranti and Meadowbank museums? 
 

Same old false equivalence shite you always get from Livi fans.

It's basically all you lot have, so I don't really blame you for trying it.

I'm sure you know the reasons for the change from Ferranti to Meadowbank, and you know that moving to Meadowbank wasn't the same issue as 'moving' to Livingston. So, since you're coming at things from such a disingenuous angle, there's really no point in debating it with you.

All Livi fans ever come up with is a bad faith argument to try and rewrite history and hope that nobody remembers the truth. To be fair, it's sort of worked for you, as you have a fanbase that seems comfortable supporting your franchise, and you avoid criticism from the Scottish football community at large.

In a just world, you'd be pariahs and away fans would boycott your shitey stadium (at no great loss to themselves). But the apathetic nature of Scottish fitba fans means you've been allowed to just slither in with a shrug. For all that people in Scotland like to bang on about justice in fitba when it suits us, allowing you lot to be accepted is a stain.

I'd be ashamed if my local area had taken another community's club against its fans wishes, rebranded it as our own, and claimed its history.

Not a chance I'd be engaging as a supporter of a club like that. You lads knock yourselves out, mind.

Edited by VincentGuerin
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FFS.Who rattled your cage.Nobodies asking you to engage in supporting a club like that.Keep your high ground morals to yourself.We know our place in Scottish Football.Cretins like you take great pleasure dragging pish like this up on a regular basis,we're well used to it by now.Yeh,as you say weve a small fanbase but many are still here from those days you pontificate about so cleverly. Somehow I smell shite here emanating from Gorgie.Highly surprising givin location.Any way stick to your own club and leave us to ours.💩.

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I haven't seen this much seethe since Willo Flood got sent off in the playoff game!

Personally, I don't see Livi as a continuation of Meadowbank and, while there is some reference to records/achievements online etc, others like player appearances/goals etc seem to start from 1995 onward.

However I was 3 years old when the move happened, so completely missed the controversy and debate around it, and most discussion is seen through the prism of the years after (buying success, promotions, implosion etc), which I'd consider a separate debate

I think most would be happy to remove the Meadowbank records from the website. Appreciate it's a complex issue with many differing opinions, with the added weight of emotional attachment, which isn't likely to resolve itself any time soon. 

As an aside, am I right in thinking FC Edinburgh/Edinburgh City are a separate club in Edinburgh that Meadowbank fans moved to, rather than a club set up to oppose the move (similar to AFC Wimbledon)?

 

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Hahaha fucking hell, you make a couple of reasonable points and then throw it all in the bin with "I'd bE AshAMed if My LocAL AreA..." 😂

Yes the history of Livi has some shady shit in it. Meadowbank died because Bill Hunter thought he could make money by killing it. Would I support it now? No. Do I feel bad for supporting what is now my local club? Also no. Is the club referring to the Meadowbank times as the same club but not the Ferranti times a bit weird? Yes.

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50 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said:

Same old false equivalence shite you always get from Livi fans.

It's basically all you lot have, so I don't really blame you for trying it.

I'm sure you know the reasons for the change from Ferranti to Meadowbank, and you know that moving to Meadowbank wasn't the same issue as 'moving' to Livingston. So, since you're coming at things from such a disingenuous angle, there's really no point in debating it with you.

All Livi fans ever come up with is a bad faith argument to try and rewrite history and hope that nobody remembers the truth. To be fair, it's sort of worked for you, as you have a fanbase that seems comfortable supporting your franchise, and you avoid criticism from the Scottish football community at large.

In a just world, you'd be pariahs and away fans would boycott your shitey stadium (at no great loss to themselves). But the apathetic nature of Scottish fitba fans means you've been allowed to just slither in with a shrug. For all that people in Scotland like to bang on about justice in fitba when it suits us, allowing you lot to be accepted is a stain.

I'd be ashamed if my local area had taken another community's club against its fans wishes, rebranded it as our own, and claimed its history.

Not a chance I'd be engaging as a supporter of a club like that. You lads knock yourselves out, mind.

I didn't state the move to Meadowbank was the same as the move to Livingston. You don't properly read the replies you receive because you're only here to hector and berate.

Just a moment, about your club. When the Soviet Union collapsed, a Moscow-St Petersburg oligarchy picked over the formerly state-owned, newly privatised assets of the emergent nations. Vladimir Romanov was among that oligarchy. He was given a fat slice of Lithuanian industry as well as a clear path to monopolise the banking sector there. So to be clear, he acquired assets which had been collectively owned by Lithuanian workers. He stole their wealth. He then put some of that stolen wealth into your club, which you all lapped up without a hint of protest. You even had the cheek to cry victimhood when it all came crashing down. We could say...

In a just world, you'd be pariahs and away fans would boycott your shitey stadium (at no great loss to themselves). But the apathetic nature of Scottish fitba fans means you've been allowed to just slither in with a shrug. For all that people in Scotland like to bang on about justice in fitba when it suits us, allowing you lot to be accepted is a stain.

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6 minutes ago, FreedomFarter said:

I didn't state the move to Meadowbank was the same as the move to Livingston. You don't properly read the replies you receive because you're only here to hector and berate.

Just a moment, about your club. When the Soviet Union collapsed, a Moscow-St Petersburg oligarchy picked over the formerly state-owned, newly privatised assets of the emergent nations. Vladimir Romanov was among that oligarchy. He was given a fat slice of Lithuanian industry as well as a clear path to monopolise the banking sector there. So to be clear, he acquired assets which had been collectively owned by Lithuanian workers. He stole their wealth. He then put some of that stolen wealth into your club, which you all lapped up without a hint of protest. You even had the cheek to cry victimhood when it all came crashing down. We could say...

In a just world, you'd be pariahs and away fans would boycott your shitey stadium (at no great loss to themselves). But the apathetic nature of Scottish fitba fans means you've been allowed to just slither in with a shrug. For all that people in Scotland like to bang on about justice in fitba when it suits us, allowing you lot to be accepted is a stain.

Risible.

I feel for you.

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25 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said:

Risible.

I feel for you.

Risible, indeed. Because your club benefiting from far away foreigners being fucked over isn't a problem. Only Edinburgh folk matter to you. You were an adult fan during that time too, when your club had a Russian oligarch spending stolen Lithuanian wealth. You've no excuse.

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6 minutes ago, FreedomFarter said:

Risible, indeed. Because your club benefiting from far away foreigners being fucked over isn't a problem. Only Edinburgh folk matter to you. You were an adult fan during that time too, when your club had a Russian oligarch spending stolen Lithuanian wealth. You've no excuse.

😀

Tears and snotters all over the keyboard.

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On 04/10/2022 at 12:57, VincentGuerin said:

Hello @LIVIFOREVER

Let's leave the Tinpot thread alone.

Now, you accused me of 'making shit up' on the other thread.

I'd like you to back this up.

Here are my assertions about your franchise.

1) Your community stole a community asset when it took Meadowbank away from its fanbase (against their will) and changed its name. The inducement of the stadium and the involvement of local government makes this exactly the same as what we see in American sports.

2) Your continued claim on Meadowbank's history is grossly offensive to anyone who understands what a football club is. You are not the guardians of their history, you are thieves.

3) Livi fans' false comparisons with the change from Ferranti either display dishonesty, willful ignorance, or lack of understanding of why that change was made. It was a local move to a stadium that would allow the club to play SFL fixtures with a name change away from a commercial one to one that reflected the area they played in. To even attempt to paint this as in any way similar to Livingston stealing another community's club is idiotic, and again, offensive.

So, tell me what I'm making up.

Livingston FC didn't steal anything, it didn't exist, Meadowbank moved to Livingston and changed its name, if anyone is to blame for that it's Bill Hunter, not Livi fans, who some are former Meadowbank fans too BTW, you trying to look all morally superior putting it on Livi fans is a joke, and coming across like a pious p***k.

Again total pish with the thieves nonsense, putting the historical changes from Ferranti, to Meadowbank, to Livi is what has happened, like it or not that's the history of the club. 

Again with the moral shite trying to look like some righteous crusader, i'm well aware of the transformation from Ferranti-Meadowbank- Livingston, and how each happened, but fact is in each case it was the same club transforming to the next historical guise, the rights and wrongs of that happeneing doesn't change that. I'm not trying to say what Bill Hunter did was in any way not shitty to Meadowbank fans, some still followed the club to Livi, most didn't, and that's for each to hold their own feelings over it, but it isn't on Livi fans, esp new generation one.

What you are mostly making up is putting all this on Livingston, fans, Community etc, and failing to even acknowledge Livingston was formerly Meadowbank. What did you expect new Meadowbank/Livi fans to do, go all moralistic and not support their now local team because of what Hunter did moving Meadowbank there, don't be so fucking stupid.

 

For a couple of decades we've had opposition fans calling us Ferranti/Meadowbank, and now you're telling us we aren't either of them we're just Livingston, who stole Meadowbank, you really couldn't make this shit up.🤣

Edited by LIVIFOREVER
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16 minutes ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

Livingston FC didn't steal anything, it didn't exist, Meadowbank moved to Livingston and changed its name, if anyone is to blame for that it's Bill Hunter, not Livi fans, who some are former Meadowbank fans too BTW, you trying to look all morally superior putting it on Livi fans is a joke, and coming across like a pious p***k.

Again total pish with the thieves nonsense, putting the historical changes from Ferranti, to Meadowbank, to Livi is what has happened, like it or not that's the history of the club. 

Again with the moral shite trying to look like some righteous crusader, i'm well aware of the transformation from Ferranti-Meadowbank- Livingston, and how each happened, but fact is in each case it was the same club transforming to the next historical guise, the rights and wrongs of that happeneing doesn't change that. I'm not trying to say what Bill Hunter did was in any way not shitty to Meadowbank fans, some still followed the club to Livi, most didn't, and that's for each to hold their own feelings over it, but it isn't on Livi fans, esp new generation one.

What you are mostly making up is putting all this on Livingston, fans, Community etc, and failing to even acknowledge Livingston was formerly Meadowbank. What did you expect new Meadowbank/Livi fans to do, go all moralistic and not support their now local team because of what Hunter did moving Meadowbank there, don't be so fucking stupid.

 

For a couple of decades we've had opposition fans calling us Ferranti/Meadowbank, and now you're telling us we aren't either of them we're just Livingston, who stole Meadowbank, you really couldn't make this shit up.🤣

Yeah, that's what people with a spine would do if their community stole another community's club.

But the Livi fans have made it quite clear that they couldn't give a f**k, so f**k them, basically.

Second only to the Old Firm. A shameless, hollow, dishonest wee franchise masquerading as a fitba club.

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5 hours ago, thruthenight said:

Hahaha fucking hell, you make a couple of reasonable points and then throw it all in the bin with "I'd bE AshAMed if My LocAL AreA..." 😂

Yes the history of Livi has some shady shit in it. Meadowbank died because Bill Hunter thought he could make money by killing it. Would I support it now? No. Do I feel bad for supporting what is now my local club? Also no. Is the club referring to the Meadowbank times as the same club but not the Ferranti times a bit weird? Yes.

That's pretty much my take too. While I do think John Bain's argument was valid, on balance I'd still side with the Meadowbank fans who opposed the move. So were time travel possible, I'd want to undo the move (unless a consensus was reached further down the line without Hunter's input). That'd do future me out of a football club but it'd have been the right thing at the time. Time travel isn't possible and history went the way it did. So I don't know what more I can do besides offer recognition to those Meadowbank fans who lost out. Same with folk who lost money through the club's financial mismanagement in the 2000s. One thing, what d'you mean about the Meadowbank but not Ferranti times being acknowledged? I checked the club website just now and both periods are included, as I thought they always had been.

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