MCL Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 i'd have thought the CVA would have had to be dealt with by the new owners, not all of it can be paid out as 5p in the pound, also staff were 6 months in arrears with massone, they got settled up with the new owners, players contracts, money owed to other football clubs from Flynns time, which Massone then ignored, isn't quite as simple as MCL is suggesting. I didn't say it was simple. Isn't the whole point of a CVA that everyone agrees to the payout so they all get the 5p in the £ agreed? Why would someone vote to take 5p in the £ if someone else was getting more? The directors said there were no loans and I think the accounts prove they told a wee white lie... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdinburghLivi Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 (edited) Footballing debts have to be paid in full, would that not include playing staff members? Any mention of what the other creditors are? Edited March 31, 2011 by EdinburghLivi 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willie Gray Ate My Hamster Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 The biggest surprise would be that anyone is surprised by this. I'm not surprised at all! No doubt their fans will come out with the usual shit... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorkie5979 Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 Doubt anyone is, unless they really thought losing 300 of the ST money to Massone and inheriting his mess, then being dumped into the 3rd Div whilst having players on 1st Div contracts would let the new owners be able to wave a magic wand and break even. MCL loves the limelight though, he'll dine out on this for the rest of the season. This is something that people tend to forget about. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AND180Y Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 I didn't say it was simple. Isn't the whole point of a CVA that everyone agrees to the payout so they all get the 5p in the £ agreed? Why would someone vote to take 5p in the £ if someone else was getting more? The directors said there were no loans and I think the accounts prove they told a wee white lie... 75% in value have to agree to the CVA. So does that mean the initial money they "chipped in" to buy the club and pay off the football debts was a loan to the club or is the £900,000 in addition to that? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Afro Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 On one hand, as someone on LiviLions put it, were people really expecting the club to break even in the Third Division, with a First Division wage bill? Although I could pick out finer details about the club's owners, the reason we exist today is due to their hard work and ultimately, their financial backing. Stability is sorely needed at Livingston but in order to achieve that, I feel patience is required from the fans. It's not going to happen overnight, and it's pretty obvious that the goal to try and bring financial stability is to regain our place in the First Divsion. It is going to take time, I accept that, and if (or when) the current owners decide to pass the mantle onto someone else, we can look back on their time and realise that the club is in a financially sounder position then they've done their job well. However, on the other hand you need to think why we signed certain players (i.e. Deuchar, Russell) and kept on certain players (Winters, Hamill) despite clearly making a loss - a pretty big one at that. Next season will hopefully a much, much greater income, which I think will happen when crowds will no doubt swell above the 2500 mark, sponsorship will increase and the use of the facilities at Almondvale will increase. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCL Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 On one hand, as someone on LiviLions put it, were people really expecting the club to break even in the Third Division, with a First Division wage bill? Although I could pick out finer details about the club's owners, the reason we exist today is due to their hard work and ultimately, their financial backing. Stability is sorely needed at Livingston but in order to achieve that, I feel patience is required from the fans. It's not going to happen overnight, and it's pretty obvious that the goal to try and bring financial stability is to regain our place in the First Divsion. It is going to take time, I accept that, and if (or when) the current owners decide to pass the mantle onto someone else, we can look back on their time and realise that the club is in a financially sounder position then they've done their job well. However, on the other hand you need to think why we signed certain players (i.e. Deuchar, Russell) and kept on certain players (Winters, Hamill) despite clearly making a loss - a pretty big one at that. Next season will hopefully a much, much greater income, which I think will happen when crowds will no doubt swell above the 2500 mark, sponsorship will increase and the use of the facilities at Almondvale will increase. Good post. I'm sure I read almost identical ones when Massone bought the club... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Afro Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 (edited) Good post. I'm sure I read almost identical ones when Massone bought the club... This is a genuine question for you: who would you like to run Livingston FC? It's fairly obvious no-one would touch it with a bargepole, you don't seem to particularly like the current board, and the supporters running the club would be out of the question considering your seemingly never-ending vandetta against the Trust. Edit; why the f**k is v e n d e t t a changing into vandetta? Edited March 31, 2011 by Livi 4 Life 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qpsnapper Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 Edit; why the f**k is v e n d e t t a changing into vandetta? Over £2m to win the Third Division? I doubt even Rowan Alexander needed that much to win it at Gretna. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 On one hand, as someone on LiviLions put it, were people really expecting the club to break even in the Third Division, with a First Division wage bill? Your stated aim is to break even in 2012. Why can't you break even before that? Because you prefer to cheat, pure and simple. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorkie5979 Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 Your stated aim is to break even in 2012. Why can't you break even before that? Because you prefer to cheat, pure and simple. Someone hasn't been paying attention. Simples 3rd division with 1st division contracts/wages What should they have done ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Afro Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 Someone hasn't been paying attention. Simples 3rd division with 1st division contracts/wages What should they have done ? Someone who probably knows a lot more about the specific wages of individual players and how much would be needed to pay them off etc. could probably tally up the costs of releasing all of our then-players and replacing them with cheaper players, compared to keeping our then-squad on until the end of last season I have a sneaking suspicion that they would probably equal the same. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
predator Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 Thought they were moving to a new stadium or was that just pie in the sky 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jupiter Jazz Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 Thought they were moving to a new stadium or was that just pie in the sky £3 pie in the sky 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCL Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 Someone hasn't been paying attention. Simples 3rd division with 1st division contracts/wages What should they have done ? Gone part time ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 Someone hasn't been paying attention. Yes, you. Simples3rd division with 1st division contracts/wages Until 2012? If not, why can you not break even before 2012? Answers on a postcard please simples. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livi Crazy Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 (edited) Yes, you. Until 2012? If not, why can you not break even before 2012? Answers on a postcard please simples. It is talking about the financial year 2011/12 eg next season. The takeover was after the start of the new season and only slightly before the close of the window. We immediately released our most expensive player in Chris Innes if I remember rightly and all other players were encouraged to find another club. We have had the unfortunate experience with previous chairmen of terminating contracts early and gone through serious legal cases over it and ended up having to pay the entire wages they were due plus a fine, so much more expensive, so it has been a case of honouring the contracts to the end (hence the fact that Roddy McKenzie left and Jason Talbot left and came back again last summer). This therefore meant that we have ran at a substantial loss for the last season. The club has substantialy cut costs where possible, by using in volunteers etc and bringing in Trust involvement in many areas. Unfortunately some of the costs are pretty much fixed such as stadium maintenance (before repairs) which particularly with last seasons hard winter was substantial. Anyone with their head screwed on knew the club was going to make a loss for the third division, however we are on track to half that loss for this season according to McDougall and Nixon in the press with higher crowds and less repairs etc. They are saying by the end of next season because, (hopefully) we will be back in the first division with larger crowds, the last of the expensive unaffordable contracts will run out and will be released or renegotiated (Ged Nixon has said at forums all new contracts have been based on the level we are playing at). The greater income will allow the club to cover the fixed and flexible costs that the club accrues. Meantime, by all accounts we have paid all bills on time, we have apparently had VAT inspections every quarter since they took over, but have been found acceptable. I know you probably won't accept this answer, however I hope you will be willing to hold off the judgement for at least another year and you will hopefully see that the club has cut its cloth accordingly and over time will hopefully reduce our debt to the directors and be sustainable. I certainly hope so, like all fans I will always have a certain scepticism, but the current board have been very open with us from the beginning, honest about losses and how they are dealing with them, and the proper submission of accounts shows that they are not trying to hide things and be in denial like previous boards. Edited April 3, 2011 by Livi Crazy 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qpsnapper Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 Someone hasn't been paying attention. Simples 3rd division with 1st division contracts/wages What should they have done ? Not adding Bobby Barr and Jim Hamilton to the wage bill during the 09/10 season may have helped a wee bit. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livi Crazy Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 Not adding Bobby Barr and Jim Hamilton to the wage bill during the 09/10 season may have helped a wee bit. A formerly part-time young player and a past-it striker, neither exactly expensive. Remember full-time doesn't necessarily mean they are paid a lot, a lot of part-time players are paid more than our full time players. On the point of Bobby Barr at that time we had a few injuries and it was looking highly likely we were losing Andrew Halliday, a key player, hence the fact that we brought someone in, however it was a player who was playing in the same league as us part-time and not getting games. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AND180Y Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 It is talking about the financial year 2011/12 eg next season. The accounts currently being discussed are for the year ended in 2010? So according to Nixon the next accounts for year ending in 2011 and due to be filed in March 2012 will show afurther loss of half a million and the accounts after that, year ending 2012 and filed in 2013, hopefully a break even figure? That would mean that the club would be circa £2million in debt, admittedly with nearly £1.5 million owed to the directors is that not a scarey thought? Interesting changes to the articles of association of Livi 5 and directors duties to it and not LFC. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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