HibeeJibee Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Regardless of the details... the numbers clearly do not stack up. Let's imagine their crowds get to 800 and they have a game every fortnight. Generous. That's 1,600 people a fortnight. Let us imagine they ALL pay £12. Massively generous, there are ST + huge proportion of concessions. That is £20,000 a month (round it up to include pie sales etc.). Let us then imagine they have only 25 full-time staff, on only £6 an hour... which is also massively generous. The wage bills of those staff for the month are £24,000. So - still short!! But we all know that they aren't getting crowds of 800, the average ticket is costing nothing like £12, they have far more than 25 full-time staff, and the average wage will be far more than £6 per hour. Looks grim. Only solution is they are earning MASSIVE profits from hospitality, sponsorship and conferences. Are they? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 If Livingston are to survive then you'll find the expensive contracts will not be renewed; the talented younger player will be sold on; and of course they will have to establish themselves back in the 1st division. Yeah, because your last few seasons there were so profitable. Livingston's model isn't compatible with full-time football, unless their youth set-up can sell on a prospect each season for a significant fee. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broken Algorithms Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Surely Livi are getting themselves once again into a vicious circle? They will spend so much on promotion attempts back up to the first that when/if they get there then they'll have accumulated a lot of debt. I'm amazed Livi haven't taken the same model as ourselves and Ayr and taken a mostly part-time squad with a few full-time players. If they continue to accumulate debt they have nobody to blame but themselves. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Thompson Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Err... no it hasn't. We didn't play because we were appealing a league demotion which we were allowed to up until the Friday morning. Of course, I'd expect the same thing if it were to happen again but it's unlikely to be a reaosn for a team not playing in future.As for the last piece of bitter bile - What hasnt? But, as we've been over, time and time and time again, any appeal did not contain grounds for scratching the fixture, under SFL rules. Under SFA rules, it would have, but at that point the appeal was still within the SFL. Again, as Ive already said, Livy were not right to not fulfill the fixture, thats why you've been penalised. If, as you claim, the pending appeal was justification for not playing the game, why would the SFL dish out any punishment? Its no wonder this thread keeps going round and round in circles when livy fans seem totally incapable of grasping basic concepts, no matter how many times theyre explained. Oh, and bile? :lol: I believe so. Just as a counter point, a lot of contracts are running out in the summer and I also expect us to be making a bit of money off Halliday at some point.Nah, I was just pleading for some interesting discussion in that thread. I'm not suggesting everything should go in there. Geez, make your mind up. You wanted it closed this morning 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCL Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Regardless of the details... the numbers clearly do not stack up. Let's imagine their crowds get to 800 and they have a game every fortnight. Generous. That's 1,600 people a fortnight. Let us imagine they ALL pay £12. Massively generous, there are ST + huge proportion of concessions. That is £20,000 a month (round it up to include pie sales etc.). Let us then imagine they have only 25 full-time staff, on only £6 an hour... which is also massively generous. The wage bills of those staff for the month are £24,000. So - still short!!But we all know that they aren't getting crowds of 800, the average ticket is costing nothing like £12, they have far more than 25 full-time staff, and the average wage will be far more than £6 per hour. Looks grim. Only solution is they are earning MASSIVE profits from hospitality, sponsorship and conferences. Are they? Don't forget the small detail of the 300 season tickets that were sold to Massone and their money is lost to the club. So that's an average crowd of 488 then. Thank goodness for sugar daddies :lol: The attendance figures are likely to increase with the start of the free season tickets to primary 7 kids scheme so the published crowd figures starting last night will be skewed even further. I understand that there are 1000 in the scheme. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdinburghLivi Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Yeah, because your last few seasons there were so profitable. Livingston's model isn't compatible with full-time football, unless their youth set-up can sell on a prospect each season for a significant fee. If we can finally get our affairs in order, I see no reason why not. Halliday will be this seasons and we have plenty of others who could be sold for good prices. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loondave1 Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Oh, of course. Poor you. Yes we are poor actually and living within our meagre means yet we still have more money than you but cant afford droves of full time employees ? A mystery even Inspector Morse would struggle to comprehend. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCaig's Tower Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 If we can finally get our affairs in order, I see no reason why not.Halliday will be this seasons and we have plenty of others who could be sold for good prices. Didn't the Marrs/Bonettis have a similar model? There seem to be 2 risks here - one is getting "affairs in order" and the other is there both being talent produced and a market for that talent. Lots of clubs hope they will stumble on a gem and cash in - no harm in that. It's still being around to cash in on that windfall that is more of a problem. As far as I can see from this thread, no-one appears to be claiming that Livi FC is making money at present. In which case either we are all wrong (and huge amounts of income are being generated from elsewhere - such as hospitality/sponsorship etc.), or the club is being subsidised, either willingly by benefactors (some of the Livi 5?) or accidentally/unwillingly by creditors. Given the recent history, I find it hard to believe that there are many willing creditors around, unless people like HMRC are constrained not to ask for money up front. And there seems little evidence of unpaid bills so far - CCJs and so on. In which case, it's all a bit of a mystery (which is one reason the whole thread remains popular...) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chub Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 If we can finally get our affairs in order, I see no reason why not.Halliday will be this seasons and we have plenty of others who could be sold for good prices. No full-time team could realistically survive in the 3rd division, especially not 1 with the financial record of your club, administration beckons for a 3rd time me thinks 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bleubrazil Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 No full-time team could realistically survive in the 3rd division, especially not 1 with the financial record of your club, administration beckons for a 3rd time me thinks Absolute bollocks. McDougall is one shrewd cookie and keeping Livi alive is a walk in the park for him compared to what he had to do to keep Cowden going for nearly 20 years. If full-time football isnt feasible he will act at the first opportunity. If it is feasible then the books will balance. PS This is a totally anti-Livi thread being kept alive because the Livi diehards keep posting. If they stopped posting the detractors would soon get fed up. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loondave1 Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Absolute bollocks.McDougall is one shrewd cookie and keeping Livi alive is a walk in the park for him compared to what he had to do to keep Cowden going for nearly 20 years. If full-time football isnt feasible he will act at the first opportunity. If it is feasible then the books will balance. PS This is a totally anti-Livi thread being kept alive because the Livi diehards keep posting. If they stopped posting the detractors would soon get fed up. I think the first opportunity may be right now as it isnt feasable. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phantoms-livi-lass Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 I think the first opportunity may be right now as it isnt feasable. If employing a full-time team is not feasable then I would imagine this will change in January. I've been over this numerous times on this thread, but the club does not just gain income on the footballing side of the business & a lot of extra revenue can be taken in by using the stadium's facilities to the maximum. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nofixedability Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 I've been over this numerous times on this thread, but the club does not just gain income on the footballing side of the business & a lot of extra revenue can be taken in by using the stadium's facilities to the maximum. Worked so far, has it? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phantoms-livi-lass Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Worked so far, has it? No, but it could if they do the job correctly. We will just have to wait & see I suppose. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 (edited) If employing a full-time team is not feasable then I would imagine this will change in January.I've been over this numerous times on this thread, but the club does not just gain income on the footballing side of the business & a lot of extra revenue can be taken in by using the stadium's facilities to the maximum. lol, because Flynn et al weren't desperately trying to squeeze blood from that particular (mill)stone for the last decade. Jeez, who'd have hospitality, catering and a bit of office space was reinventing the wheel? Edited November 25, 2009 by vikingTON 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loondave1 Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Worked so far, has it? Fish in a barrell ! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djn Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 a lot of extra revenue can be taken in by using the stadium's facilities to the maximum Robert Wilson + Wimpey Homes = 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djn Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 If we can finally get our affairs in order, :lol: :lol: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phantoms-livi-lass Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Robert Wilson + Wimpey Homes = No, Wilson has no chance with the formidable Mr Rankine in control. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AND180Y Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Robert Wilson + Wimpey Homes = Wilcon Homes? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.