Livingston - all the threads merged

[EdinburghLivi]

Would you have made that statement, if it had happened to your Club. ?.

Why are you taking this view when Spencer Fearn is on our side and wants compensation from the SFL for this shambles? Fair enough, if we'd won the return game I could understand you ES supporters being pissed off at us but we got humped.

[HibeeJibee]

But the SFL were all in favour of the decision to not play until the Friday morning! Would it have set a 'precedent' if the appeal had been submitted at 8:59 on the Friday morning? The decision would have been completely the same anyway but with the SFL's acceptance. Unless you are seriously suggesting we tried to rile up the SFL by leaving it so late (as opposed to having discussion about it (which we should have been allowed)), that is a ludicrous view to take.

We should have been allowed the 10 days to submit an appeal which wouldn't be prejudiced but only got 3/4.

You think that SFL approving the decision is but a mere aside...? It's the vital element FFS. Otherwise it's anarchy.

[HibeeJibee]

Why are you taking this view when Spencer Fearn is on our side and wants compensation from the SFL for this shambles? Fair enough, if we'd won the return game I could understand you ES supporters being pissed off at us but we got humped.

Why should the SFL bankbalance (i.e. 30 clubs collective bankbalance) pay ES money for Livi's offence? Ridiculous.

[Michael W]

Would the decision to play have prejudiced the decision? yes.

That 'reasoning' was nought more than a facade. Toys out the pram is more or less on the money.

Cowdenbeath and Airdrie both fulfilled their fixtures. It was made clear to both these teams that the results were provisional. The same would have applied to Livi.

[EdinburghLivi]

You think that SFL approving the decision is but a mere aside...? It's the vital element FFS. Otherwise it's anarchy.

But they approved it before the Friday morning after saying we would get 10 days to appeal!

I think you're being extremely ignorant to suggest that us not playing this game is a precedent for 'anarchy' when it comes to appeals. You made the ridiculous comparison to appealing a red card the other day when it's clear that appealing a decision to relegate a team is clearly a lot different.

Why should the SFL bankbalance (i.e. 30 clubs collective bankbalance) pay ES money for Livi's offence? Ridiculous.

Ask Spencer Fearn, I'm fed up repeating it.

That 'reasoning' was nought more than a facade. Toys out the pram is more or less on the money.

Cowdenbeath and Airdrie both fulfilled their fixtures. It was made clear to both these teams that the results were provisional. The same would have applied to Livi.

Aye, ok.

Provisional? That means f**k all at the end of the day. Had we played the game, provisional or not, an immediate prejudice comes over our appeal. "Oh they've started playing, let's not disturb the league any further" or something along those lines. None of the games involving the teams should have been played and that would have been the case until Dave Siegel at Ross County threatened to sue the SFL.

I'm once again advocating the closure of this thread until further notice as it's clear we are going to go over the same arguments with the same views again and again. It would be o.k. if we are getting new stories to divulge over but this is taking the piss. Myself, jimbo, Sir Calum Melville and HibeeJibee must have repeated the same arguments about 10 times when it's clear we're not going to get anywhere because of the different, unchangeable views.

Edited November 11, 2009 by EdinburghLivi

[Michael W]

Aye, ok.

Provisional? That means f**k all at the end of the day. Had we played the game, provisional or not, an immediate prejudice comes over our appeal. "Oh they've started playing, let's not disturb the league any further" or something along those lines. None of the games involving the teams should have been played and that would have been the case until Dave Siegel at Ross County threatened to sue the SFL.

Airdrie and Cowdenbeath had already played. Going by your own argument, re-instating Livingston would have 'disturbed the league'. Ergo, Livingston wouldn't have been put back up anyway if what you claim is correct.

It's perfectly correct that the games were played. What if this saga had dragged on for a few weeks? I can't imagine clubs would be too pleased having to catch up on mid-week nights, do you?

[The Master]

Would the decision to play have prejudiced the decision? yes.

No, and Livi (cheating scum) proved that by playing the following week, and after submitting an appeal to the SFA...an institution whose rules do state that pending an appeal, the status quo applies.

[phantoms-livi-lass]

I agree that this constant bickering about the scratched game is pointless, the "right decision" people are never going to convince the "wrong decision" people & vice versa! It's like banging our heads off a brick wall! I wish it was over with to be honest as it's becoming a nightmare.

I was & still am of the opinion that the game should never have been scratched, I think by doing this we dragged another club into our mess & also cost them money & ruined the start of the season for them, I still don't think that the club's explanation for doing this is justified but that is just my opinion & being as stubborn as I am I can't see it the way the rest of my fans seem to.

To Edinburghlivi - if you haven't been able to convince me that your view is right then you have no chance with the people on here & there is no point in going round in circles all the time.

We just have to wait & see what happens at the meeting as there is feck all we can do about it now.

[Lorels mum]

Why are you taking this view when Spencer Fearn is on our side and wants compensation from the SFL for this shambles? Fair enough, if we'd won the return game I could understand you ES supporters being pissed off at us but we got humped.

[/quote

When I post on this forum, I speak for myself, not Spencer Fearn. If he is on your side, which I have yet to see evidence of, them I'm afraid Mr Fearn and myself have to agree to disagree on this one.

[Lorels mum]

I agree that this constant bickering about the scratched game is pointless, the "right decision" people are never going to convince the "wrong decision" people & vice versa! It's like banging our heads off a brick wall! I wish it was over with to be honest as it's becoming a nightmare.

I was & still am of the opinion that the game should never have been scratched, I think by doing this we dragged another club into our mess & also cost them money & ruined the start of the season for them, I still don't think that the club's explanation for doing this is justified but that is just my opinion & being as stubborn as I am I can't see it the way the rest of my fans seem to.

To Edinburghlivi - if you haven't been able to convince me that your view is right then you have no chance with the people on here & there is no point in going round in circles all the time.

We just have to wait & see what happens at the meeting as there is feck all we can do about it now.

Well said. I couldn't have put it better myself.

AT LEAST YOU UNDERSTAND MY REASONS FOR BEING MORE THAN UNHAPPY WITH THE SITUATION AS IT STANDS.

[Homer Thompson]

But the SFL were all in favour of the decision to not play until the Friday morning! Would it have set a 'precedent' if the appeal had been submitted at 8:59 on the Friday morning? The decision would have been completely the same anyway but with the SFL's acceptance. Unless you are seriously suggesting we tried to rile up the SFL by leaving it so late (as opposed to having discussion about it (which we should have been allowed)), that is a ludicrous view to take.

We should have been allowed the 10 days to submit an appeal which wouldn't be prejudiced but only got 3/4.

You were given 10 days to submit an appeal and told, in the meantime, to fulfill the 3rd division fixtures. You didnt. It doesnt matter how much you bleat on about prejudice or what the SFL would have done had you appealed earlier, its all irrelevant. The simple fact is you were told to play the game and didnt. If the club didnt think that was right, then tough, as members of the SFL you're obliged to obey its laws and follow proper procedure in terms of appeals etc - not make things up as you see fit, which is, essentially, what Livy did. The "We think this will prejudice the appeal" viewpoint is totally irrelevant. As was said at the time, it isnt up to Livy to decide which fixtures to play and which not, its up to the league. Having been told to play the game, Livy should have played the game, irrespective of their views of whether or not it would prejudice an appeal etc. It really is that simple and the club should be punished for not playing

I agree that this constant bickering about the scratched game is pointless, the "right decision" people are never going to convince the "wrong decision" people & vice versa! It's like banging our heads off a brick wall! I wish it was over with to be honest as it's becoming a nightmare.

I was & still am of the opinion that the game should never have been scratched, I think by doing this we dragged another club into our mess & also cost them money & ruined the start of the season for them, I still don't think that the club's explanation for doing this is justified but that is just my opinion & being as stubborn as I am I can't see it the way the rest of my fans seem to.

To Edinburghlivi - if you haven't been able to convince me that your view is right then you have no chance with the people on here & there is no point in going round in circles all the time.

We just have to wait & see what happens at the meeting as there is feck all we can do about it now.

I think thats a very good point. Given all that was going on, it seems ludicrous, on the part of McGruther, to have chosen to not play the game. It didnt do anything to endear the club to the SFL, presumably SFA, or fans of other clubs and the clubs themselves. Its also put this question mark of a points deduction hanging over the club which, could, keep them in Div3 for another season. And for what? To make a point?

[AND180Y]

Every journey begins with one small step eh?

So are outgoings at 99p in the £1 as promised and if not when will they be and how much will have been lost by then?

Who is underwriting the losses and is this by donations or more directors loans?

So many questions, so few answers.

[EdinburghLivi]

I've got no more to say on the matter of playing the game, I've made that clear to myself that I won't post about it any longer. If you disagree with my views, fine, I don't care. However, I'm getting into no more tedious, repeated arguments when it's clear the views of no-one is changing.

Let's get on to other Livi related news finally...

Andy Halliday has apparently been offered a trial at Charlton Athetlic according to the Scottish Sun. Also interesting Hearts, Hibs, Celtic, Portsmouth, Bolton and Blackburn.

[EdinburghLivi]

Every journey begins with one small step eh?

So are outgoings at 99p in the £1 as promised and if not when will they be and how much will have been lost by then?

Who is underwriting the losses and is this by donations or more directors loans?

Indeed, they do. Although, it is more several steps trying to be made at this point.

The 99p in £1 promise was made before we got shafted into the 3rd division with a bunch of full-time first division players with only a few weeks to go of the transfer window.

I have no idea.

[phantoms-livi-lass]

Well said. I couldn't have put it better myself.

AT LEAST YOU UNDERSTAND MY REASONS FOR BEING MORE THAN UNHAPPY WITH THE SITUATION AS IT STANDS.

I do understand & I would be same if it had happened to my club, no club can afford to waste money these days, especially those in the lower divisions. I hope you will be compensated for the loss as this whole thing was absolutely nothing to do with your club & you should never have been dragged into it.

I think thats a very good point. Given all that was going on, it seems ludicrous, on the part of McGruther, to have chosen to not play the game. It didnt do anything to endear the club to the SFL, presumably SFA, or fans of other clubs and the clubs themselves. Its also put this question mark of a points deduction hanging over the club which, could, keep them in Div3 for another season. And for what? To make a point?

This part I do not understand either! Why get the backs up of all the clubs who in one weeks time were to vote at the appeal? It seems a very stupid thing to do & destined for failure! I cannot understand what drove them to do it yet!

[AND180Y]

Indeed, they do. Although, it is more several steps trying to be made at this point.

The 99p in £1 promise was made before we got shafted into the 3rd division with a bunch of full-time first division players with only a few weeks to go of the transfer window.

I have no idea.

Given that Livi were quick to dump players as part of your first administration (second debt avoidance scheme) what stopped them from doing it this time? Surely this would have been the correct and honourable thing to do!!

Or is it the case that Rankine convinced the allegedly sharp McGruther that he could keep the club in the first division with some quiet words in ears that mattered? Interesting to note that all Nel Boys stories came out after he found out he was talking to deaf ears, would we have heard the stories if Livi were still in the 1st, I doubt it.

You assert that the playing budget is about to be cut, is the administrative and hangers on budget about to suffer the same fate?

Oh and there are two ways to balance a budget, cut expenditure (players wages) or increase income. Have they done either, are they at the 99p in the £1 or did they open their mouths and let their arse talk?

Edited November 12, 2009 by AND180Y

[EdinburghLivi]

Given that Livi were quick to dump players as part of your first administration (second debt avoidance scheme) what stopped them from doing it this time? Surely this would have been the correct and honourable thing to do!!

Or is it the case that Rankine convinced the allegedly sharp McGruther that he could keep the club in the first division with some quiet words in ears that mattered? Interesting to note that all Nel Boys stories came out after he found out he was talking to deaf ears, would we have heard the stories if Livi were still in the 1st, I doubt it.

You assert that the playing budget is about to be cut, is the administrative and hangers on budget about to suffer the same fate?

Oh and there are two ways to balance a budget, cut expenditure (players wages) or increase income. Have they done either, are they at the 99p in the £1 or did they open their mouths and let their arse talk?

What were to stop them? I just said it, the transfer deadline being so close. Correct and honourable to dump players without a chance of them getting a new club before the deadline? I think not. All of our players were available to leave at the end of the window had an offer come in, make no mistake of that. They didn't received many but did sell Armand One for free.

I doubt they've increased income with the gates (possibly with functions and hospitality) but they certainly have cut wages from last year.

[AND180Y]

What were to stop them? I just said it, the transfer deadline being so close. Correct and honourable to dump players without a chance of them getting a new club before the deadline? I think not. All of our players were available to leave at the end of the window had an offer come in, make no mistake of that. They didn't received many but did sell Armand One for free.

I doubt they've increased income with the gates (possibly with functions and hospitality) but they certainly have cut wages from last year.

You went into admin a while before the start of the new season?

[EdinburghLivi]

Yes but the new board took control of the club on the 13th of August. I believe it was the previous week we were relegated to the 3rd division.

Can I ask why you are still around probing the fans when we generally don't know that much about the situation? I know we are cutting wages and trying to maximise income, that's all. Email McGruther, Nixon, McDougall or Rankine if you want real answers.

[SNECKSTAGGIE]

What were to stop them? I just said it, the transfer deadline being so close. Correct and honourable to dump players without a chance of them getting a new club before the deadline? I think not. All of our players were available to leave at the end of the window had an offer come in, make no mistake of that. They didn't received many but did sell Armand One for free.

I doubt they've increased income with the gates (possibly with functions and hospitality) but they certainly have cut wages from last year.

How do you sell someone for free?