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Livingston - all the threads merged


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Weren't Clyde groundsharing with Hamilton Accies or something like that? I would hardly call getting a new stadium as franchise, if this was the case.

No.

With regards to Clydebank - Airdrieonians, weren't Clydebank already at the point of bankruptcy and death themselves (weren't they forced to dissolve from the SFL before Airdrieonians' demise??)

No

I would say there may be a small element of franchise in that but the fact Clydebank weren't members of the SFL it's like having your Sunday league team bought and thrown into the big time.

No

Looking at administration, I have one answer for you - cronyism.

Eh?

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While as a Livi fan and obviously not claiming any kind of moral high ground here, can any of our numerous and vociferous enemies answer me these questions?

1/ Franchise- Clyde move 30-odd miles to council-owned stadium.

No name change - not franchise?

Airdrieonians die, Clydebank change name to Airdrie United, move 30-odd miles and rock up into stadium that Airdrieonians used to play in. Not franchise?

Meadowbank move 16 miles from one council-owned stadium to another. more suitable stadium, owned by a different council. ----Franchise F.C.?

2/ Administration.

How many people got stiffed. and for how much when Dundee went into admin?

How many people got stiffed. and for how much when Partick did the CVA routine to save their hide?

How many people got stiffed, and for how much when Donald McGruther saved Falkirk's arse?

Just asking.......

Time for some righteous indignation here.

Clyde have had a CVA in the past too :P

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While as a Livi fan and obviously not claiming any kind of moral high ground here, can any of our numerous and vociferous enemies answer me these questions?

1/ Franchise- Clyde move 30-odd miles to council-owned stadium.

No name change - not franchise?

Airdrieonians die, Clydebank change name to Airdrie United, move 30-odd miles and rock up into stadium that Airdrieonians used to play in. Not franchise?

Meadowbank move 16 miles from one council-owned stadium to another. more suitable stadium, owned by a different council. ----Franchise F.C.?

2/ Administration.

How many people got stiffed. and for how much when Dundee went into admin?

How many people got stiffed. and for how much when Partick did the CVA routine to save their hide?

How many people got stiffed, and for how much when Donald McGruther saved Falkirk's arse?

Just asking.......

Time for some righteous indignation here.

I don't think its the amount that people got stiffed for that annoys people, it's probably got more to do with the frequency that it happens and the obvious failure to learn lessons from it.

Well there's that and the fact that a lot of your fans seem like wanks.

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While as a Livi fan and obviously not claiming any kind of moral high ground here, can any of our numerous and vociferous enemies answer me these questions?

1/ Franchise- Clyde move 30-odd miles to council-owned stadium.

No name change - not franchise?

Airdrieonians die, Clydebank change name to Airdrie United, move 30-odd miles and rock up into stadium that Airdrieonians used to play in. Not franchise?

Meadowbank move 16 miles from one council-owned stadium to another. more suitable stadium, owned by a different council. ----Franchise F.C.?

2/ Administration.

How many people got stiffed. and for how much when Dundee went into admin?

How many people got stiffed. and for how much when Partick did the CVA routine to save their hide?

How many people got stiffed, and for how much when Donald McGruther saved Falkirk's arse?

Just asking.......

Time for some righteous indignation here.

I suggest you have a quick swatch through the last 507 pages, where the answers to all these questions and more have been lovingly set out.

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Yeah cause once is acceptable ya hypocritical scumDee b'stard. ;)

*Edited as forgot the scumDee bit. :D

Nope, once is and was unacceptable.

Twice, however is beyond ridiculous.

If you are unable to fathom this, then i would have to conclude that you are in fact as retarded as your semi-literate posts suggest.

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While as a Livi fan and obviously not claiming any kind of moral high ground here, can any of our numerous and vociferous enemies answer me these questions?

1/ Franchise- Clyde move 30-odd miles to council-owned stadium.

No name change - not franchise?

Airdrieonians die, Clydebank change name to Airdrie United, move 30-odd miles and rock up into stadium that Airdrieonians used to play in. Not franchise?

Meadowbank move 16 miles from one council-owned stadium to another. more suitable stadium, owned by a different council. ----Franchise F.C.?

2/ Administration.

How many people got stiffed. and for how much when Dundee went into admin?

How many people got stiffed. and for how much when Partick did the CVA routine to save their hide?

How many people got stiffed, and for how much when Donald McGruther saved Falkirk's arse?

Just asking.......

Time for some righteous indignation here.

1. Clyde were in an *incredibly* tight spot in the mid-late 80s. The club had no money, shelled out most of the little it made on renting Firhill (86-91) and Old Douglas Park (91-3) before moving to Broadwood. Clyde's small fan base knew well in advance about the move to Cumbernauld and, from memory, whilst there was some sadness at permanently moving away from the club's traditional Rutherglen heartland, it was accepted as a necessary move given that Shawfield was no longer available, and other potential sites in that area were non existent/non viable/too expensive. The alternative was the slow death of the club.

Notice the aspect of consent- the fans went along with it, and the club maintain close links to their traditional area in Glasgow to this day. Your rightly point out that the name didn't change and it is the *same* club, just a different stadium. Some fans like to claim that Livingston is just a continuation of Meadowbank, but frankly that's a lot more doubtful than in Clyde's case.

Your gloss on Meadowbank's *forcible* move from the concrete lavvypan is laughably revisionist. You make it sound as though it was a small family moving to a bigger semi with a new baby on the way. As you *well* know, but probably don't care, that move was resisted for years on end by the Thistle Action Group, and was forced through in the teeth of the opposition of I'd say 99% of Meadowbank's fans. Whilst MTFC may still have existed on paper for a number of years after the name disappeared from the fixture card, the club had to all intents and purposes disappeared, to be replaced by an entirely new and alien one that the vast majority of the Thistle support wanted nothing to do with.

It was the first example of Franchise football in the UK as a result, and quite different to Clyde's case. Simply, Meadowbank's league membership was usurped by "Livingston FC", with the aim of creating a newtown club with a bigger fanbase and more potential to achieve success. Of course those aims have all proven to be laughable fantasy in the fourteen years that have followed, with any "success" achieved only on the back of ripping off untold numbers of individuals and companies both in the football industry and beyond. Had Meadowbank continued under the old leadership they'd probably be a mid table second division side these days, and part time still, with a core support of about 250. The creation of "Livingston FC" with the connivance of the LDC stole that club's league place from them very much against the fans will- that most current "Livi" fans appear indifferent, or indeed contemptuous, of those historical facts, in my view, makes the club and many of its followers pretty widely loathed throughout the Scottish game.

I'm not sure the Airdrie-Clydebank case is a worthwhile analogy, as its such a Byzantine case. But, yes, in my view, the current Airdrie United are a franchise club, created by Jim Ballantyne to preserve senior football in that town, at Clydebank's expense.

Someone with more knowledge of the club finances that you mention will have to take on your second point.

Edited by Ivo den Bieman
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It was the first example of Franchise football in the UK as a result, and quite different to Clyde's case. Simply, Meadowbank's league membership was usurped by "Livingston FC", with the aim of creating a newtown club with a bigger fanbase and more potential to achieve success. Of course those aims have all proven to be laughable fantasy in the fourteen years that have followed, with any "success" achieved only on the back of ripping off untold numbers of individuals and companies both in the football industry and beyond. Had Meadowbank continued under the old leadership they'd probably be a mid table second division side these days, and part time still, with a core support of about 250. The creation of "Livingston FC" with the connivance of the LDC stole that club's league place from them very much against the fans will- that most current "Livi" fans appear indifferent, or indeed contemptuous, of those historical facts, in my view, makes the club and many of its followers pretty widely loathed throughout the Scottish game.

Wondeful paragraph that sums up LFC to a tee.

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