Livingston - all the threads merged

[LLD]

We have been in admin twice! Only one more than you, Sir Calum bangs on about us learning english perhaps you lot should go back & learn basic maths!

I wouldn't waste your breath.

He's just trying to deflect attention from the mammoth debt that Dundee wrote off. The one that was more than double we have ever accumulated despite our disgraceful record of financial management.

I bet he wasn't grumbling when Ravanelli and co were strutting about Dens.

[LLD]

Did you not go into Administration as Meadowbank?

No, but don't let that get in the way of a good story.

£20m wasn't it when Dundee went into admin?

[Benjamin_Nevis]

1. I think the situation came to a head when it was possible to come to a head. Believe me, I thought it would be sooner, but at the end of the day WLC really had to wait until the infamous June 30 stadium purchase deadline passed. I appreciate that we are lucky still to have a club, but the timing of the whole thing has not exactly been ideal in terms of the new guys coming in.

2. But it's not Neil Rankine who is wrong! He's not broken any rules?

3. Prior to the relegation decision, Bannatyne was very vocal in suggesting to the rest of the Management Committee that Livingston would neither be able to lodge a guarantee bond (when they could) or complete a CVA (which they have). It sounds to me as though he was attempting to draw parallels with the Gretna situation, when they were relegated to the Third Division only to resign anyway.

1. Administration could have been forced at ANY of the previous failures to meet deadlines. Strangely, the one closest to the start of the season was chosen

2. Does his behaviour not concern you at all?

3. "Its sounds to me" does not constitute evidence, i'm afraid.

The decision to relegate Livi was taken after you failed to guarantee fixtures, the week after stating you could. Ergo, Livi's fault.

[LLD]

1. Administration could have been forced at ANY of the previous failures to meet deadlines. Strangely, the one closest to the start of the season was chosen

2. Does his behaviour not concern you at all?

3. "Its sounds to me" does not constitute evidence, i'm afraid.

The decision to relegate Livi was taken after you failed to guarantee fixtures, the week after stating you could. Ergo, Livi's fault.

1. These things take time you clown.

2. I don't know enough about it. He's a bookie who takes bets?

3. Eh? I've just told you what Bannatyne said. Ignore if you want.

As for the bond, McGruther told the league that he could not personally guarantee that the club could fulfil the fixtures but that the consortium led by Gordon McDougall could. Fact.

To be fair, though, like your compatriot Sir Calum Melville you have a bit of a cheek criticising Livingston when your club has written off more debt than probably any other in Scottish football history.

Edited September 26, 2009 by LLD

[Benjamin_Nevis]

No, but don't let that get in the way of a good story.

£20m wasn't it when Dundee went into admin?

Sorry, just severe financial difficulties. Again.

£20million approximately.

Or more realistically £13million, as £7million of it was the The Marrs' money, which they'd tossed away on their own retarded plan for Dundee.

The vast majority of the rest was due to HBoS who restructured it to £7million.

SCM has more details on this, but basically our Chairman negotiated a deal with HBoS whereby The Company of which he was CEO would use HBoS for a £180million business deal in exchange for the debt being written off for £500,000 approx. A win-win situation for both i'd say.

Who won in any of Livi's administrations? Apart from Livi of course...

[LLD]

Sorry, just severe financial difficulties. Again.

£20million approximately.

Or more realistically £13million, as £7million of it was the The Marrs' money, which they'd tossed away on their own retarded plan for Dundee.

The vast majority of the rest was due to HBoS who restructured it to £7million.

SCM has more details on this, but basically our Chairman negotiated a deal with HBoS whereby The Company of which he was CEO would use HBoS for a £180million business deal in exchange for the debt being written off for £500,000 approx. A win-win situation for both i'd say.

Who won in any of Livi's administrations? Apart from Livi of course...

So to summarise £20m overall then?

Like I said about glasshouses...

[phantoms-livi-lass]

When LLd mentioned the infamous 30th June stadium purchase, I got a horrible flashback of Monstrous Massone & his much promised announcements! I don't think I will ever fully recover from the torture of that hideous excuse of a human being!

[Benjamin_Nevis]

1. These things take time you clown.

2. I don't know enough about it. He's a bookie who takes bets?

3. Eh? I've just told you what Bannatyne said. Ignore if you want.

As for the bond, McGruther told the league that he could not personally guarantee that the club could fulfil the fixtures but that the consortium led by Gordon McDougall could. Fact.

To be fair, though, like your compatriot Sir Calum Melville you have a bit of a cheek criticising Livingston when your club has written off more debt than probably any other in Scottish football history.

1. Really? How long did it take WLC to force admin after the stadium deadline? Few days wasn't it? Surely this could have been done equally quickly after the previous payment promise failed. And the one before that ... and so on.

2. You don't need to be an expert in the gambling industry to be a wee bit concerned that the major player at your football club knowingly took massive illegal football bets from an Office Bearer, then only decided to release this information when things didn't go as planned.

Are you concerned over Rankine's behaviour? Yes or No?

3. Bannatyne? When the f**k did Dragon's Den become involved?

And no you didn't tell me what he said, i asked you to provide some evidence, and all you could muster was "It sounds to me like .....".

As for Dundee, see previous post.

[Benjamin_Nevis]

So to summarise £20m overall then?

Like I said about glasshouses...

Where do you stand on Massone being "shafted" out of his investment?

[jimbo]

Where do you stand on Massone being "shafted" out of his investment?

[LLD]

3. Bannatyne? When the f**k did Dragon's Den become involved?

And no you didn't tell me what he said, i asked you to provide some evidence, and all you could muster was "It sounds to me like .....".

I told you that Ballantyne suggested to the rest of the Management Committee that Livi wouldn't be able to raise the bond or complete a CVA.

The "it sounds like to me...." bit was my interpretation of what he was trying to achieve by saying those things.

[jimbo]

Sorry, just severe financial difficulties. Again.

£20million approximately.

Or more realistically £13million, as £7million of it was the The Marrs' money, which they'd tossed away on their own retarded plan for Dundee.

The vast majority of the rest was due to HBoS who restructured it to £7million.

SCM has more details on this, but basically our Chairman negotiated a deal with HBoS whereby The Company of which he was CEO would use HBoS for a £180million business deal in exchange for the debt being written off for £500,000 approx. A win-win situation for both i'd say.

Who won in any of Livi's administrations? Apart from Livi of course...

So basically the difference between Livi and Dundee is that you got a chairman who was minted and we got Massone. When it comes to us fans that is the only difference - ie whether or not you have competent folk at the helm. We Livi fans have been shat on more than most. Maybe this time!

[Benjamin_Nevis]

It is detailed in the CVA is it not?

[LLD]

Where do you stand on Massone being "shafted" out of his investment?

I stand on it being entirely his own fault. I have my doubts that it was his own money anyway.

[Benjamin_Nevis]

I told you that Ballantyne suggested to the rest of the Management Committee that Livi wouldn't be able to raise the bond or complete a CVA.

The "it sounds like to me...." bit was my interpretation of what he was trying to achieve by saying those things.

But McGruther admitted that the bond could not be met.

What i'm getting at here, is that your interpretation is exactly that. This does not constitute evidence, or "fact" as you put it earlier.

JB said he didn't think Livi could fulfil fixtures or the bond. He was proved to be correct, as McGruther's subsequent admission proved.

[Benjamin_Nevis]

I stand on it being entirely his own fault. I have my doubts that it was his own money anyway.

The money he is alleged to have lost is detailed in the CVA.

Do you therefore agree that the Marrs loss was entirely their own fault also?

[jimbo]

But McGruther admitted that the bond could not be met.

What i'm getting at here, is that your interpretation is exactly that. This does not constitute evidence, or "fact" as you put it earlier.

JB said he didn't think Livi could fulfil fixtures or the bond. He was proved to be correct, as McGruther's subsequent admission proved.

Pity they didn't ask the folk who are actually running the club. They are fulfilling the fixtures in the 3rd at greater expense than it would have cost to fulfill them in the 1st. But I think the MC knew the fixtures would be fulfilled and that the bond could have been raised. The trouble was that there were too many people manipulating in the background for their own ends.

As LLD says Livi have nothing to be proud of in the way the club has been run but let's not allow that to detract from the fact that the way the SFL is run is reprehensible.

[Benjamin_Nevis]

Pity they didn't ask the folk who are actually running the club. They are fulfilling the fixtures in the 3rd at greater expense than it would have cost to fulfill them in the 1st. But I think the MC knew the fixtures would be fulfilled and that the bond could have been raised. The trouble was that there were too many people manipulating in the background for their own ends.

As LLD says Livi have nothing to be proud of in the way the club has been run but let's not allow that to detract from the fact that the way the SFL is run is reprehensible.

McGruther WAS running the club, therefore the final responsibility lay solely with him.

The decision taken to punt you down 2 divisions wasn't taken until AFTER McGruther admitted this.

[phantoms-livi-lass]

McGruther WAS running the club, therefore the final responsibility lay solely with him.

The decision taken to punt you down 2 divisions wasn't taken until AFTER McGruther admitted this.

This is the bit that confuses me as there are two different descriptions as to what really happened!

[jimbo]

McGruther WAS running the club, therefore the final responsibility lay solely with him.

The decision taken to punt you down 2 divisions wasn't taken until AFTER McGruther admitted this.

Do you think he is still running it? They knew fine well who would be running it. I will say it again, the questions should have been put to the incoming consortium. They knew fine that McDougall was in the building that day. It suited the vested interests not to. As soon as we were asked to play East Stirling it was becoming obvious that our fate was more or less sealed. Personally I'd rather we had just played the game and got on with things but like you I am just a fan and who ever listens to us.