stuartcraig Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 Regarding Robbie Winters supposedly he was offered more at Airdrie but chose to come to Livi as his brother is here & he is only contracted until December. Airdrie weren't offering contracts at the time because we weren't sure what division we'd be playing in this season. Stuart 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCL Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 Just had a look at the unsecured creditors list why are Blackburn Rovers PLC due £29,000 and Shelbourne FC due £21,000, also hearts are due nearly £23,000,and middlesboro are due £13,000,WBA are due £1750 and Plymouth a £1000.I presume these are not footballing debts but if they are then the SFL should get livi to honour them as is always the case. I also see scottish power are on the list for ove £40,000. Certainly makes intresting reading. Off the top of my head the Blackburn money was due from the sell on clause for David McNamee and Middlesboro was part of the loan deal for Jason Kennedy. Shelbourne would be for sell on of Wes Hoolihan. Those were all back in the days of Pearse Flynn's ownership. Hearts is the loan deal for Calum Elliot. I'm sure the owning club continues to pay the player's wages and the loan club reimburses them later which Livi didn't do obviously. Not sure about the others. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCL Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 Also found this creditorDaniele Brambilla employment tribunal is due £18330.51 I take it this lady sued livi and won but wont see very much of her win. Daniele was the chef who, as well as being owed money for wages, actually paid for food and stuff himself so the kitchens could keep functioning. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AND180Y Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 Off the top of my head the Blackburn money was due from the sell on clause for David McNamee and Middlesboro was part of the loan deal for Jason Kennedy. Shelbourne would be for sell on of Wes Hoolihan. Those were all back in the days of Pearse Flynn's ownership. Hearts is the loan deal for Calum Elliot. I'm sure the owning club continues to pay the player's wages and the loan club reimburses them later which Livi didn't do obviously. Not sure about the others. I thought all the debts were down to Massone? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phantoms-livi-lass Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 I thought all the debts were down to Massone? Obviously not. But I still hate him though! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow Loon Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 No wonder Flynn wanted out as quick as possible. Bet he couldnt believe his luck when massone offered to takeover. He walks away from a club in debt and then watches as massone makes as big a mess as he had. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djn Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 I think that's the chef who left after the non-payment of wages, with the cooking utensils in the boot of his car! ...if only there was some lame pun about "cooking the books" I could make, but I can't think of one... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phantoms-livi-lass Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 ...if only there was some lame pun about "cooking the books" I could make, but I can't think of one... Already been done, in the Keane era. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCL Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 I thought all the debts were down to Massone? No, like my claim, a lot of them were from the Flynn era. Massone bought the club for £1 and took on the debts but then claimed he wasn't told the true level of debt. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTG Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 (edited) On the HMRC front, it may simply be a question of timing. Normally payments to HMRC fall due on specific dates. It is perfectly feasible that HMRC have merely deferred action on payment falling due to allow the Administrator/Livvy 5 time to see what can be salvaged from this train wreck. If HMRC had insisted on timely payment, everything else would have been pointless. It looks to me as though they are regarded as in the same category as every other non-football creditor. If so, given their actions at Accrington, I cannot see how they will allow Livvy to pay £25k in respect of a £500k debt when chasing another club to the point of extinction for the whole £300k. Unless of course, Accrington own their own ground and that can be sold off to pay the debt whereas there is no point in pursuing that with Livvy because they have nothing of note to liquidate. The only reason then to refuse the £25k (being hard-nosed about it) is to prevent this happening again. But that would be challenged by the Livvy 5 because they are a group with a track record of generally not going into admin - by whatever means. If they intend to try and recoup the £500k, Livvy would appear to be humped. And here's a thing. If the council sell the ground to the Livvy 5, they then have a tangible asset which can be used against them should they go down this slippery slope again. They can then say to HMRC that this won't happen again and if it does, you'll get your wedge through liquidation. The council will still have senior football in West Lothian but will be rid of the alleged £200k potential maintenance costs and they'll have profited from the arrival of the Livvy 5 (spun as good news for the taxpayer). Of course the council would have to insist on some clause or other that the land can only be used for football or whatever. But that would not matter if new owners tried and failed to make the club self sufficient. If the whole thing collapses again, the land is sold on to pay creditors. Then houses get built and the spin is that senior football was never sustainable in Livingston but at least someone tried and nobody got ripped off as badly as last time. A bit simplistic but you get the drift! Edited September 16, 2009 by HTG 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrantR Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 I'm led to believe Massone is back in the country, ready to make an appearance at the CVA meeting tomorrow at the stadium (Almondvale Suite). Perhaps one final hurrah? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 The Hearts debt must be for Callum Elliot. I thought I was near the end of the list but realised it's alphabetical & I was only at D! It's sickening. That would make it a footballing debt.................................... ....... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny_m Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 Lets not forget that this debt and CVA is much much less than the last one! What will the next one be like? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 No, like my claim, a lot of them were from the Flynn era. Massone bought the club for £1 and took on the debts but then claimed he wasn't told the true level of debt. I believe him on that one. Although it won't help those involved at the moment why don't people offering services take cash upfront or on delivery. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin_Nevis Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 I believe him on that one.Although it won't help those involved at the moment why don't people offering services take cash upfront or on delivery. Surely no one takes over a business without a thorough check of the books first. Not even Massone. The second point is a good one. Surely if Livi have stung you before, you'd either tell them to f*** off, or demand the dosh up front. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 Surely no one takes over a business without a thorough check of the books first. Not even Massone.The second point is a good one. Surely if Livi have stung you before, you'd either tell them to f*** off, or demand the dosh up front. Unfortunately there are lots of people fail to do due dilligence when buying a company,a friend has been battling for years to keep his house because he failed to check the books properly. Why does the selling club get paid the cash that has been agreed in any prior transfers sell-on clause? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piesie Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 Correct me if Im wrong, but is it not now impossible for Livy to settle any debtors that are named on the CVA proposal outwith any agreed CVA? I'm afraid I'm no expert in accounting/insolvency so please excuse my ignorance, but if the above is true (which I believe it to be), how does the repayment in full of "footballing debt" fit into this scenario? How can the SFL insist that footballing debt is paid in full whilst less fortunate and perhaps more worthy creditors (such as the charities previously mentioned) have to accept their 5%? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Thompson Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 (edited) I'm afraid I'm no expert in accounting/insolvency so please excuse my ignorance, but if the above is true (which I believe it to be), how does the repayment in full of "footballing debt" fit into this scenario? How can the SFL insist that footballing debt is paid in full whilst less fortunate and perhaps more worthy creditors (such as the charities previously mentioned) have to accept their 5%? Presumably, and like you Im no expert, any footballing debt has already been paid outwith the CVA. What I cant explain from that, is why there are several football clubs listed in the CVA for, what would appear to be, football debt. What are the rules regarding CVA acceptance? I seem to recall someone saying that if the creditors who are owed over a certain percentage agree then the rest have no choice. Does anyone know what that percentage is? It would be interesting to see who's actually going to decide Livys fate. WLC and HMRC, obviously, but who else? Massone? edited to add - does anyone know what time the meeting is today? And also, is there likely to be a decision at the meeting or are this just to kick off the process? Edited September 17, 2009 by Mr X 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borys Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 Surely no one takes over a business without a thorough check of the books first. Not even Massone. The business genius who currently owns Newcastle United apparently didn't do a due dilligence before purchase ... Borys 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 The business genius who currently owns Newcastle United apparently didn't do a due dilligence before purchase ... Borys Explains why he paid double its real value. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.