Livingston - all the threads merged

[Benjamin_Nevis]

Now that the correct decision has been reached Livvy must be punished for not fulfilling a fixture. The precedent was set with Hamilton Accies all those years ago so a 15 point deduction should be forthcoming.

Not quite. Skyline Drifter pointed out the exact reasoning earlier in the thread.

I think it was something like ... 15 points was arrived at to make relegation a likelihood, but at least give Accies a chance. IE not render the remaining fixtures completely worthless. 15 points is not a set in stone punishment.

Given the way in which Rankine, McDougall etc have behaved recently, i wouldn't be at all surprised to see a much heavier punishment.

[AND180Y]

No it won't, when the club goes so will the thread, I'll make bloody sure of it!

as long as but a couple of us remain interested, never will we on any conditions be brought under Livi's rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are posting, but for the truth!!

[Waspie]

From BIKO on Livilions :-

Even if we continue (and I think that we should) it will be many months before anything gets resolved. 3rd Div is our lot. I hope that we keep pointing out the corruption at the core of Scottish football.

Are these people serious? It was bad enough when the financial basketcase that was/is Livingston was preaching to the rest of us about SPL2 and how to run a football club. This latest nonsense where they claim to be the white knight riding to the rescue of Scottish football is beyond ridiculous. The saddest thing is that despite the claims of a few weeks ago that the days of rogue owners at Livi were over, and that the club would be more community based and would live within their means, that history seems to be repeating itself. Once again they have undesirable people at the helm and are spending money they dont have.

Anyway it was wise decision by the SFA. Now for a hefty punishment for failing to fulfill the opening fixture and we can all move on.

Edited September 7, 2009 by Waspie

[djn]

It was bad enough when the financial basketcase that was/is Livingston was preaching to the rest of us about SPL2 and how to run a football club

Ooooh, now there's a thought - since Livi were the most SPL2 club out there, *if* SPL2 existed and they were in it - what would happen if their financial "difficulties" came to light in SPL2?

[Guest WJR]

Are these people serious? It was bad enough when the financial basketcase that was/is Livingston was preaching to the rest of us about SPL2 and how to run a football club. This latest nonsense where they claim to be the white knight riding to the rescue of Scottish football is beyond ridiculous. The saddest thing is that despite the claims of a few weeks ago that the days of rogue owners at Livi were over, and that the club would be more community based and would live within their means, that history seems to be repeating itself. Once again they have undesirable people at the helm and are spending money they dont have.

Anyway it was wise decision by the SFA. Now for a hefty punishment for failing to fulfill the opening fixture and we can all move on.

People suggests plural Waspie - who are the people?

[Germinator]

People suggests plural Waspie - who are the people?

We are

[Ivo den Bieman]

Not quite. Skyline Drifter pointed out the exact reasoning earlier in the thread.

I think it was something like ... 15 points was arrived at to make relegation a likelihood, but at least give Accies a chance. IE not render the remaining fixtures completely worthless. 15 points is not a set in stone punishment.

Given the way in which Rankine, McDougall etc have behaved recently, i wouldn't be at all surprised to see a much heavier punishment.

There's two schools of thought- either the SFL will be so pissed off that they will deduct every point won by Livingston for the next ten seasons, or they'll decide enough's enough and not risk another round of hand wringing and whining, another round of appeals, etc, and just give them a token deduction. Rankine and MacDougall's contemptible aggression in the media really has backfired though, and now they look as vulnerable as a Sopwith Camel in the gunsights of a Eurofighter. Those predicting the early collapse of the club though are wide of the mark. MacDougall and that Nixon won't walk away even if Rankine does.

As for the thread, well apathy and lack of recent new information mean that its best days are behind it, like a fading once-beautiful ocean liner turned into a Tuxedo-Princess type blade-merchant's venu..er, sorry, "nightclub". Phantoms Livi lass is still doing her best to drum up business with her "Greatest" Hits of Lloyd Weber contradiction-in-terms karaoke on the foredeck, AND 180Y is carving scurrilous graffiti into the bog wall with a school compass, ayrmad is shouting angrily about injustices on the quayside, fighting to be heard above the sonorous Calvinist fire-and-brimstone oratory of Duncan Freemason, but most of the punters have moved on.

It won't be long before she's towed away to be scuttled in the Scapa Flow that is P&B Gold. Roughly about the same time that the developers move in to level a deserted Almondvale, in fact.

(awaits "jimbo" to return with his customary )

[Guest WJR]

We are

Germinator - I didn't ask who arra peepul

[Glasgow Loon]

From Bertie Bassett on livilions :-

IMO the SFA couldn't really do anything else. The SFL forced their hand by refusing to reinstate our 1st division status when we originally appealed. This essentially forced a fait accompli situation.

I would have found some respect for the SFA if they had come out and stated that the SFL had acted unfairly & broke their own rules causing the farcical situation of rearranging the leagues with 3 days to the season & in contradicting their own decision of the previous week but to overturn the decision now would simply cause further disruption & chaos.

I might still find some respect for the SFA if they were to announce a full investigation of the procedures of the SFL in this debacle. But I ain't holding my breath.

[Guest]

From Bertie Bassett on livilions :-

IMO the SFA couldn't really do anything else. The SFL forced their hand by refusing to reinstate our 1st division status when we originally appealed. This essentially forced a fait accompli situation.

I would have found some respect for the SFA if they had come out and stated that the SFL had acted unfairly & broke their own rules causing the farcical situation of rearranging the leagues with 3 days to the season & in contradicting their own decision of the previous week but to overturn the decision now would simply cause further disruption & chaos.

I might still find some respect for the SFA if they were to announce a full investigation of the procedures of the SFL in this debacle. But I ain't holding my breath.

No they didn't. Livvy pushed events to this juncture with the sole aim of giving the SFL no time or space in the hope of escaping meaningful punishment.

As to the second point, I'm sure he wouldn't care for equal scrutiny into some of the goings on in WL. No siree. The relationship between WLC and LFC is likely to offer up far more material than the SFL's shortcomings. Any organization with a history like LFC really has no right to pick up stones let alone throw them.

[Glasgow Loon]

This thread on livilions about the council reducing the rent is a great read :-

http://www.livilions.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=17135

[Big G...]

I have just spent the past half hour laughing at some of the ludicrous posts on Livi Lions. I have always been quite sympathetic to the Livi cause, with regard to not wanting to see the fans lose their club, whilst advocating that the Club have to be punished for their misdemeanours, but my patience is wearing rather thin.

It is everyones fault except those who are to blame. It is a true saying, "there are none so blind as those who will not see!" The SFA are corrupt ( even though it was an independent panel, including a High Court judge!), the SFL, who have been found to have followed the rules, Airdrie, Cowdenbeath, The Trust.....ad infinitum. Unbelievable stuff. Funny how none of them seem to want to lay the blame at their own door.

They talk of greed and corruption, but never while looking in the proverbial mirror.

They now want to ban anyone from the board who is not singing from the "everyone is corrupt, and has it in for Livi" hymn sheet

[Guest]

There's two schools of thought- either the SFL will be so pissed off that they will deduct every point won by Livingston for the next ten seasons, or they'll decide enough's enough and not risk another round of hand wringing and whining, another round of appeals, etc, and just give them a token deduction. Rankine and MacDougall's contemptible aggression in the media really has backfired though, and now they look as vulnerable as a Sopwith Camel in the gunsights of a Eurofighter. Those predicting the early collapse of the club though are wide of the mark. MacDougall and that Nixon won't walk away even if Rankine does.

As for the thread, well apathy and lack of recent new information mean that its best days are behind it, like a fading once-beautiful ocean liner turned into a Tuxedo-Princess type blade-merchant's venu..er, sorry, "nightclub". Phantoms Livi lass is still doing her best to drum up business with her "Greatest" Hits of Lloyd Weber contradiction-in-terms karaoke on the foredeck, AND 180Y is carving scurrilous graffiti into the bog wall with a school compass, ayrmad is shouting angrily about injustices on the quayside, fighting to be heard above the sonorous Calvinist fire-and-brimstone oratory of Duncan Freemason, but most of the punters have moved on.

It won't be long before she's towed away to be scuttled in the Scapa Flow that is P&B Gold. Roughly about the same time that the developers move in to level a deserted Almondvale, in fact.

(awaits "jimbo" to return with his customary )

.........and that is probably a damn fine cue for me to pack said fire and brimstone back into the bag, and draw a line under my input into this whole tawdry mess. A bit of me feels justice has been done.........but it is just a bit. Come the next CVA, no doubt my hackles will be up again. For now at least, the monstrous little spitting child that is LFC has been confined to the naughty step. However, the bigger drama of profit and loss has still to be played out. The losers then will be the taxpayers of WL (even more than now). The winners will set up residence anywhere but WL. Goodnight and good luck.

Just as a final post script: I see there is an announcement on their official website. If that reflects the opinion of that sorry little club, then it is shows very very clearly that the sneering classes are still very much at the helm at Livingston. Here we have them (grammatical errors apart) babbling on about how playing in the third was an aspirational position a few short weeks ago. So why didn't the clowns just go and get on with it then?

The bit at the end says it all...........the bit about "winning honours". Y'see, that is what is really important to them. They simply do not see that they would be far better off spending a few years trying to win respect. They are still completely incapable of showing any sort of contrition for what they have done. Now all that remains is the simple matter of nailing the creditors for every penny possible. In so many ways, they remain the unacceptable face of professional football in this country.

Edited September 8, 2009 by Guest

[Waspie]

People suggests plural Waspie - who are the people?

It doesnt suggest plural, it is plural. It should be obvious enough that I was referring to the more deluded, but very vocal, element of the Livingston support. Countless examples over the previous 460 or so pages of this thread.

[Guest WJR]

It doesnt suggest plural, it is plural. It should be obvious enough that I was referring to the more deluded, but very vocal, element of the Livingston support. Countless examples over the previous 460 or so pages of this thread.

"People" is the plural Waspie, you referred to undesirable people (plural) at the helm of the club - who exactly are you referring to?

Edited September 7, 2009 by WJR

[jimbo]

Goodnight and good luck.

Hi Ivo

Bye Dunc

Well at least we can't be relegated this season. Always look on the bright s......!

Edited September 7, 2009 by jimbo

[Skyline Drifter]

Hey ho, to no great surprise to anyone who understood the rules, the hearings process and the appeals process, Livi's punishment has been upheld. Like Southview I'm of the opinion (as I've stated before) that First Division with a big points penalty was what I'd have done with them but I understand why the SFL felt the need to relegate them and it was never likely to be reversed at any point. Livingston carrying on with further appeals would be pointless in reality.

Nobody comes out of this whole episode with any great credit but when they stop flinging mud around arbitrarily and flailing wildly at anything they can the denizens of Livi Lions should note there is a reason why two hearings of their peers and now one of an independent panel have chosen to punish them in this way or uphold it.

They should now also get a points penalty for the failure to play East Stirlingshire on the appointed day too. Something of the order of 3 or 6 points would be fair IMO. However, I wouldn't be completely astonished, if Livi drop the appeals now, the SFL just sweeps that away with perhaps a compensation order to 'Shire for the lost expenses of the day rather than cause another argument. We'll see.

Edited September 7, 2009 by Skyline Drifter

[Aberdeen Cowden]

Livingstone have a habit of treating other clubs and fans with contempt.

Last season we were drawn away to Livi in the Cup. It was January - freezing cold but ok cause Livi have undersoil heating. As I was driving across the Forth Bridge on the way to the game it was announced that the game was off because no-one had switched the heating on! So it was all the way back to Aberdeen and back again the following week as the pitch had then thawed out.

Hopefully now they can reap what they have sown - only one friend amongst all the posters on here. The quicker they are turfed out the league the better. It may not happen now but it sure as hell won't be long.

And for anyone associated with Livi to breath the word corruption as if it were bad must be the biggest joke ever.

Good riddance.

[jester]

I finally paid a visit to LiviLions tonight, and what a deluded bunch they are on there. These fuckwits have been happily shit-stirring on the stomp recently, one after the other. They just don't seem to get it.

Also, is Jim Ballantyne really a Bond villain style genius, who has an underground bunker and a white cat, and spends his days plotting the downfall of the good, clean living, debt honouring people of Livingston?

biko

Quote:

Originally Posted by livijames

Can we ban this clown who is clearly stirring **** now? I'm all for opposition fans coming on here with reasoned debate but this guy is not one of them.

Why ban him? He is entitled to gloat, after all he supports a club that went out of existence, but still hangs on to honours that Airdrie FC won. We know that he supports Clydebank and more to the point so does he!.

His chairman was a lot more devious than Massone, but I think that a bit of investigative journalism from the likes of Scotland on Sunday will have the cosy committees at Hampden a bit worried. We have lost today, and in many respects we deserve to be punsihed for the mistakes that have gone before, but not cheated out of our rightful league place by a team who have manipulated rules to keep themselves in the leaguer and in Div 1 for the past 2 seasons - I look forward to the hat-trick.

Nice to see that the Livi fans don't care about the West Lothian taxpayers, and are looking forward to business as usual soon (spending other peoples money).

Dov

Quote:

Originally Posted by biko

I can see how non-Livi fans who are taxpayers will be miffed.

Don't care a jot about non-Livi fans and their views (I'd ban them all ) . What are they going to do? The council saved our club from your pal Massone.

They get what they deserve.

[Jimmy MCcabe]

It may have been mentioned but I can't be bothered trawling through to see but if the council had taken this decision before surely the club would have had a much better chance of avoiding administration in the first place. Sure the Italians may still have failed to pay anyone else and it may have came eventually but it seems very strange that it was WLC that instigated all this now everything is ticatiboo and they don't want their money.