Livingston - all the threads merged

[Guest]

It was my understanding that football debt (which this in effect would be) has to be paid in full as per SFL regulations so either Livi pay off the player's contracts and have to replace them with part timers or they honour the contracts and keep them. Believe me some of our players who have decent contracts would not get a look in elsewhere. But that of course was the work of the genius that is Massone. Anyway if it is as easy as you say to terminate the contracts then I'm presuming there will be an exodus if the appeal fails. So we'll see.

I know Gretna terminated quite a few before they folded completely. Footballing debts relate to all previously accrued debts, and as I understand it, "future debts" (such as contracts), can be dismissed by the administrator. There is really very little doubt that Livingston's income since pre-season will be woefully short of meeting expenditure. It's quite possible you'll have taken in less than £5,000 in your one home fixture to date, so the debts have got to be building under the new regime (unless McGruther is allowing theoretical spending to continue, and intends to not honour that spending). MacDougal historically does not subsidize operating costs. Rankine certainly won't. Nixon might want to, but as the tiddler in the pond, I don't think he will. So is there more speculation based on "climbing the leagues" ? Who knows.......

[Guest WJR]

Which part of the post is harsh? Bearing in mind they all have previous.

Don't know anything about Rankine, know little about McDougall but despite currently being exiled in the deep south have heard him a couple of times on Radio Scotland and was impressed with what he had to say.

Already said I don't know Ged only his brother (Ok no real connection I guess, I think I am a good guy but my brother is a git!). Friends whose opinion I value speak very highly of Ged so I think it is a bit harsh to tar them all with the same brush as spivs and speculators.

What have Rankine and McDougall done that upsets you?

[jimbo]

I know Gretna terminated quite a few before they folded completely. Footballing debts relate to all previously accrued debts, and as I understand it, "future debts" (such as contracts), can be dismissed by the administrator. There is really very little doubt that Livingston's income since pre-season will be woefully short of meeting expenditure. It's quite possible you'll have taken in less than £5,000 in your one home fixture to date, so the debts have got to be building under the new regime (unless McGruther is allowing theoretical spending to continue, and intends to not honour that spending). MacDougal historically does not subsidize operating costs. Rankine certainly won't. Nixon might want to, but as the tiddler in the pond, I don't think he will. So is there more speculation based on "climbing the leagues" ? Who knows.......

I am hoping you are correct because I am looking forward to getting to the stage of only spending what comes in. At the moment we obviously are not doing that.

I guess we will be able to get by in the short term but clearly it is not sustainable for any length of time.

[vikingTON]

I am hoping you are correct because I am looking forward to getting to the stage of only spending what comes in. At the moment we obviously are not doing that.

I guess we will be able to get by in the short term but clearly it is not sustainable for any length of time.

Only by running up debt again. The cycle continues.

[jimbo]

Only by running up debt again. The cycle continues.

Yawns!

[Fife Saint]

Has this immoral, destitute organisation not breathed its last yet?

[djn]

Don't know about Cowden struggling now any more than they were at any other time!

The odd thing is that he's benefitted Cowden considerably by buggering off to Livi and (by getting them demoted) you suddenly get a promotion out of it

[Aberdeen Cowden]

The odd thing is that he's benefitted Cowden considerably by buggering off to Livi and (by getting them demoted) you suddenly get a promotion out of it

Don't feel comfortable about this.We have a team which would probably do quite well in the third but not the second but we cannot sign anyone because of the parasite's appeal. So we have played four games - could have to play an additional four if the appeal goes through. What a mess for Cowden - and Airdrie.

[jimbo]

Has this immoral, destitute organisation not breathed its last yet?

Steady on there. I know they are not perfect but, really, is that any way to talk about the Sfl?

[vikingTON]

Yawns!

This is why I just cannot wait until your date with liquidation.

[jimbo]

This is why I just cannot wait until your date with liquidation.

I was asleep there. Did you say something interesting?

[vikingTON]

Nothing interesting, just factual: don't you worry your little head about anything like that.

[jimmy two times]

Has this immoral, destitute organisation not breathed its last yet?

day 40 odd in the livvy big brother house.even davinas bored with it now.all lookin forward to the evictions

[Guest]

day 40 odd in the livvy big brother house.even davinas bored with it now.all lookin forward to the evictions

According to LL, those nice people at the council have decided to write of LFC's debt in its entirety. That's very nice of them, but further re-inforces the council's earlier actions to have absolutely nothing to do with recovering money, and everything to do with facilitating the demise of the owner of a privately owned company in order to permit the take over by another regime. That has to be a hugely iffy path for WLC to take, and further draws their motives into question.

It's further re-inforced by a reduction in rent from £150k per annum to £20k per annum. This is a quite staggering change, and will open the doors to all sorts of legal challenges by other tenants. It seems it is intended to rise to £50k per annum as of next season. Messrs Rankine and MacDougal certainly seem to have managed to cuddle up to the key players in the council in double quick time. That the council have afforded the new owners a huge head start by writing off £300k, and reducing rent immediately by something like 85%, has got to draw some sort of attention to that relationship.

It's certainly a hell of a move for the council to pull. If sufficiently high numbers of tax payers sit up and take notice of what is going on, then it could well bring about the demise of those currently in office, as it blindingly obvious that existing policy is not being applied equally to all tenants. Another can of worms has been opened in spectacular fashion. One can only deduce that the council now have the people they want in charge of LFC, and no doubt, they have their own reasons for having them there.

I wonder of the council are still going to take hospitality places at the stadium? If they were to pay the club something like £20k a season, I'm sure that would get them a few prime seats close to the director's box.

[jimbo]

According to LL, those nice people at the council have decided to write of LFC's debt in its entirety. That's very nice of them, but further re-inforces the council's earlier actions to have absolutely nothing to do with recovering money, and everything to do with facilitating the demise of the owner of a privately owned company in order to permit the take over by another regime. That has to be a hugely iffy path for WLC to take, and further draws their motives into question.

It's further re-inforced by a reduction in rent from £150k per annum to £20k per annum. This is a quite staggering change, and will open the doors to all sorts of legal challenges by other tenants. It seems it is intended to rise to £50k per annum as of next season. Messrs Rankine and MacDougal certainly seem to have managed to cuddle up to the key players in the council in double quick time. That the council have afforded the new owners a huge head start by writing off £300k, and reducing rent immediately by something like 85%, has got to draw some sort of attention to that relationship.

It's certainly a hell of a move for the council to pull. If sufficiently high numbers of tax payers sit up and take notice of what is going on, then it could well bring about the demise of those currently in office, as it blindingly obvious that existing policy is not being applied equally to all tenants. Another can of worms has been opened in spectacular fashion. One can only deduce that the council now have the people they want in charge of LFC, and no doubt, they have their own reasons for having them there.

I wonder of the council are still going to take hospitality places at the stadium? If they were to pay the club something like £20k a season, I'm sure that would get them a few prime seats close to the director's box.

As I see it the council were between a rock and a hard place over this. They knew there was never any likelihood of Massone coming up with the cash and that as things stood they would be left with a white elephant on their hands. Things were deteriorating under his stewardship and the club was on the brink of collapse. I am glad that that they facilitated his departure at a time when there was a chance of the club being taken over. Don't forget too that HMRC were ready to do the same thing if they hadn't. The rent was set at an unrealistic level and all they have done is reduce it to something more sustainable. Yes they could have done this with Massone still in charge but anyone with half a brain could see that the guy was a deluded eejit and unfit for the role.

It appears to me that they have evicted a sitting tennant as they would in any other rented accommodation and another party has come in. We still have football in the area and I have not heard any great clamour from local residents that this is not what they wanted. The only people who have voiced any opinion seem to be those from other places who have grudges against the team.

[Livi]

What a mess for Cowden - and Airdrie.

.....and Livi

[Homer Thompson]

As I see it the council were between a rock and a hard place over this. They knew there was never any likelihood of Massone coming up with the cash and that as things stood they would be left with a white elephant on their hands. Things were deteriorating under his stewardship and the club was on the brink of collapse. I am glad that that they facilitated his departure at a time when there was a chance of the club being taken over. Don't forget too that HMRC were ready to do the same thing if they hadn't. The rent was set at an unrealistic level and all they have done is reduce it to something more sustainable. Yes they could have done this with Massone still in charge but anyone with half a brain could see that the guy was a deluded eejit and unfit for the role.

It appears to me that they have evicted a sitting tennant as they would in any other rented accommodation and another party has come in. We still have football in the area and I have not heard any great clamour from local residents that this is not what they wanted. The only people who have voiced any opinion seem to be those from other places who have grudges against the team.

Oh, its all Massones fault. Why didnt you say?

WLC havent evicted a tenant. Livingston FC are their tenants and they are still very much in residence, only with new owners.

What was unrealistic about the level of rent? Bearing in mind that rent is based on the value of the property, its facilities, location etc and not on the income of its tenants, or their ability to pay.

Edited September 4, 2009 by Mr X

[AND180Y]

I wonder how much it costs to buy a councillor these days.

[Guest]

As I see it the council were between a rock and a hard place over this. They knew there was never any likelihood of Massone coming up with the cash and that as things stood they would be left with a white elephant on their hands. Things were deteriorating under his stewardship and the club was on the brink of collapse. I am glad that that they facilitated his departure at a time when there was a chance of the club being taken over. Don't forget too that HMRC were ready to do the same thing if they hadn't. The rent was set at an unrealistic level and all they have done is reduce it to something more sustainable. Yes they could have done this with Massone still in charge but anyone with half a brain could see that the guy was a deluded eejit and unfit for the role.

It appears to me that they have evicted a sitting tennant as they would in any other rented accommodation and another party has come in. We still have football in the area and I have not heard any great clamour from local residents that this is not what they wanted. The only people who have voiced any opinion seem to be those from other places who have grudges against the team.

What happened to policy? Do WLC apply "sustainable" criteria to all of its tenants? The council did NOT evict a sitting tenant. The tenant was Livingston Football Club...............and it still is. C'mon Jimbo, this isn't about grudges. Look at the relationship for what it actually is, not for what they want you to believe it is. The council have opened a can of worms with this. It's up to the tax payers whether or not they want to take issue with it. The council have made ot very easy for the right lawyer to tear them to pieces. Look at it in square foot terms..........as the council supposedly do, and it ain't right. It seems that the council have chosen to look at it in terms of turnover. Do the council afford this facility to all of their business tenants? You know the answer to that one. It's a helluva push to paint this as a straightforward business decision that meets existing policy criteria, because it doesn't.

Here's a comparable version of events and tell me if this is something the council would do. A family ain't paid their rent for months and months and months. The council take them to court, and force Dad out of the house, but allow the family to stay. They then tell the family to forget about all the old rent that they owe. They also tell them not to worry about the rent, because as a gesture, they'll knock off 85% for the next year. It'll have to go back up, but it will only ever go up to one third of its original figure until the family start earning top money.

Is that how WLC negotiate with all of their tenants? The only bit that is missing so far would be the cherry on the top. That would be the council then selling the house to the family for a fraction of its value, and allowing them to move it on for whatever they can get. But that will never ever happen, will it.

.........and was it not just three days ago your illustrious council leader said he "hoped to get back some of the money owed". Fast forward three short days, and he presides over a decision to not only write it off, but to reduce future rent by 85%. Sounds like a man that should either be listened to, or watched. I know which one I would choose.

Edited September 4, 2009 by Guest

[Aberdeen Cowden]

I can'afford to pay my council tax anymore - what do I do to get it reduced?

Load up several credit cards to the limit - take out a mega mortgage if I can get one - get a masive extension built on my house - stop paying electric and gas bills ! etc,etc.