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Livingston - all the threads merged


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Imagine saying that about your own club Sir Calum. :o

I'm not surprised then that you are excited about visiting arseholes of a weekend! ;)

Yes, modifying a quote then using that modification to attack the person.

How very straw man.

I'd have thought the opposite, no agendas by the arbitrators so a fair hearing, it is an independant law lord who will preside over it.

And it was the presence of agendas that made it more likely the appeal would be lost if made to the "normal" appeals panel.

An independent panel won't care about anything but the rules under consideration...and that means Livi haven't a hope in hell's chance of avoiding defeat. Even more so when you consider the panel is being chaired by a Law Lord (because he of all people will know that the SFL acted within their rules).

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I think I am saying that PH will be paid in full since his outstanding wages come under the heading of football debt. I would presume that the assurances from the administrator on the matter will have been enough to allow Livi to resume playing games under the auspices of the Sfl. Whether or not he has actually received the money I don't know. I do know that the outstanding wages due to present Livi staff have now been paid.

I would put it slightly differently to you by saying that the debt to PH is likely to be one that they wish they did not have to honour. They do however realise that they must.

How many of the staff released by McGruther have been re-employed? Is it back to one big happy family or full of family? :rolleyes:

Edited by AND180Y
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An independent panel won't care about anything but the rules under consideration...and that means Livi haven't a hope in hell's chance of avoiding defeat. Even more so when you consider the panel is being chaired by a Law Lord (because he of all people will know that the SFL acted within their rules).

Obviously you have a different view of it than McGruther and the Livi5 consortium then, the SFL's handling of this leaves a lot to be desired and hence the appeal, the rules are so vague they can be manipulated to whatever ends the SFL wanted them and that is where an independant panel should be our best chance, certainly better then the SFL one anyway.

Our chances have always been slim, however at least this time it'll be a fair hearing and as such i'm hoping the Livi5 consortium will take whatever verdict they get and end it there.

I just want to get on with the football, isn't just you other teams fans that is fed up with it all.

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...the rules are so vague they can be manipulated to whatever ends the SFL wanted them...

Er...no.

This appeal is about the actual demotion to to the Third Division and the rule invoked to facilitate that is crystal clear:

76.2 The Management Committee shall also have full power to deal with as it thinks fit,

including power to deduct championship points before or during a season and/or to impose a player registration

embargo on any club guilty of conduct contrary to the interests of the League and its member

clubs or any registered player or former registered player, or potentially likely to prejudice the orderly

progress of the League Championship and/or the League Challenge Cup competition in any

season. Such conduct, for the avoidance of doubt, may include a club in or going into

Administration, Liquidation, Receivership, Sequestration or any other insolvency procedure by

whatever means or having a Judicial Factor appointed to its undertaking. For the further avoidance

of doubt, a club in or going into any such procedure will remain responsible for the purposes of this

Rule for the conduct of its undertaking by any Administrator, Liquidator, Receiver, Trustee in

Sequestration, Judicial Factor or other such officer appointed to it.

Edited by Sir Calum Melville
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Er...no.

This appeal is about the actual demotion to to the Third Division and the rule invoked to facilitate that is crystal clear:

Exactly, they decide to do one thing then change their mind and relegate us down 2 Div, as i said, the rules are open to do as they please and that's why we had this balls up a couple of days before the season started and continued to date.

The appeal is because of the demotion...correct, a points deduction was what they were going to hand us the week before, if you think the SFL handled this correctly then i'm at a loss, because this is one fuckup that could've been avoided if they had just told us we're being relegated to the 3rd at the first meeting, that would still have been a harsh decision but at least it would've been decisive from the start.

The rules need to be set out clearly so everyone knows what punishment is going to be set, not a vague clusterfuck to be interpreted several different ways depending how the SFL feel, it covers their ass to hand out points deduction or relegation, or no punishment at all, how is that crystal clear!

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Exactly, they decide to do one thing then change their mind and relegate us down 2 Div, as i said, the rules are open to do as they please and that's why we had this balls up a couple of days before the season started and continued to date.

The appeal is because of the demotion...correct, a points deduction was what they were going to hand us the week before, if you think the SFL handled this correctly then i'm at a loss, because this is one fuckup that could've been avoided if they had just told us we're being relegated to the 3rd at the first meeting, that would still have been a harsh decision but at least it would've been decisive from the start.

The rules need to be set out clearly so everyone knows what punishment is going to be set, not a vague clusterfuck to be interpreted several different ways depending how the SFL feel, it covers their ass to hand out points deduction or relegation, or no punishment at all, how is that crystal clear!

Not supposed to be crystal clear,you can't accommodate self-interest in clearly set out rules & punishments. ;)

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Exactly, they decide to do one thing then change their mind and relegate us down 2 Div,

They did that because they didn't receive the required assurances from McGruther.

SFL: "Can you guarantee that you'll fulfil all your fixtures?"

McGruther: "No."

as i said, the rules are open to do as they please

Well, yes. I don't think anyone has argued against that.

And indeed, it's because of that that the appeal will in all likelihood fail.

and that's why we had this balls up a couple of days before the season started and continued to date.

:huh:

The fact the SFL can impose any sanction "they see fit" on a team that's insolvent had nothing to do with the time it was imposed.

The appeal is because of the demotion...correct, a points deduction was what they were going to hand us the week before,

That was before they were told that Livi could not guarantee being able to fulfil all their fixtures.

Besides, verbal agreements aren't worth the paper they're written on.

if you think the SFL handled this correctly then i'm at a loss, because this is one fuckup that could've been avoided if they had just told us we're being relegated to the 3rd at the first meeting, that would still have been a harsh decision but at least it would've been decisive from the start.

And you honestly think the appeals still wouldn't have been forthcoming, disrupting the season anyway?

The rules need to be set out clearly so everyone knows what punishment is going to be set, not a vague clusterfuck to be interpreted several different ways depending how the SFL feel, it covers their ass to hand out points deduction or relegation, or no punishment at all, how is that crystal clear!

How can you interpret it in different ways?

They do can do whatever they see fit. Simple. No ambiguity, no nothing.

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They do can do whatever they see fit. Simple. No ambiguity, no nothing.

You keep stating this pish and it doesn't change the fact that your reading of this situation is wrong,while the rules are laid out in a fashion that appears to allow them to do as they like that doesn't mean they can do as they like,any set of rules and how they are used must come within the law of the land,if a decision appeared to be made excessively harsh due to giving Livi a kicking for vindictive reasons it could contravene certain Business Law.

And your they agreed to them retort is pish also,they still have to work within the law of the land.

Civic Government Scotland Act gives LA's autonomy to do as they like in the area of taxis,doesn't actually mean they can do as they like.

Edited by ayrmad
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