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Livingston - all the threads merged


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Wrong again chummy!

It's a pretty simple point I was making, I wouldn't presume to pass a view on the rights or wrongs of any set of cirtsamces without being in possession of all the relevant facts. If others like you choose to do so that is up to you.

Oops spelling. Sorry about that, wasn't even close!

And for the record I was commenting on my own personal experience in appeals

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How terribly strange.

I was under the impression this was a football forum whereby we were all entitled to state our opinions on the current situation.

I wish someone had told me we required to consult some sort of paperwork in order to be permitted to make a point.

I don't have a problem with expressions of opinions Jupe, it's when those are actually presented as "facts" that I get a bit pissed off.

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Or alternatively that they know it is going to be succesful ...

If they know it's going to be successful, why play the game?

Wrong again chummy!

So you have made an appeal to the SFL?

It's a pretty simple point I was making, I wouldn't presume to pass a view on the rights or wrongs of any set of cirtsamces without being in possession of all the relevant facts. If others like you choose to do so that is up to you.

For the point I'm making, there's no need to be in possession of anything other than the rulebook and a brain capable of understanding it.

I have both.

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According to the LivvyLions website front page - McGruther is *still* in charge. It may be that handing formal control to the consortium will be a rubber-stamp exercise in the court but the control apparently still lies with him

as above there still a club in administartion so McGruther IS still in charge, the livi 5 will have preffered bidder status, until a cva is rubber stamped the business remains in the hands of the admin unless of course they have settled all debts :lol:

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"The new board have discussed the matter at length and have taken the decision to cooperate fully with the member clubs and the SFL. Although we intend to pursue our appeal through all the channels open to us the time constraint in so doing are not conducive to the better interests of the game. The fact that the game of football and the fans of several clubs are the ones being affected by this lengthy uncertainty has led us to make this decision."

That's fair enough actually, I'll take them at their word on that. Ignore my earlier comments on their motivation.

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Guest Forza-Livi
Ignore them they are just silly little boys who think they are big hard men, they will realise the errors of their ways when they grow up or someone gives them a good skelp whichever comes first! ;)

they will just have to be prepared to take one back

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So you have made an appeal to the SFL?

Don't be an arse Sir Calum - that is not what I said. Spartans are not in the SFL. My twice asked question to you simply referred to an appeal to the football authorities.

I have never suggested that all the different bodies follow the same process which is why, purely from personal interest, I would like to see the relevant correspondence to see how the process compares with own experiences (yes deliberate plural Sir C).

I also think you are placing too narrow an interpretation on the ordinary English meaning of appeal.

My view, and it is only that, is that appeal refers to a process and is not restricted to the limited act of getting up your hind legs before the beaks. That process culminates in the act of getting up on your hind legs but is not limited to that act alone.

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"The new board have discussed the matter at length and have taken the decision to cooperate fully with the member clubs and the SFL. Although we intend to pursue our appeal through all the channels open to us the time constraint in so doing are not conducive to the better interests of the game. The fact that the game of football and the fans of several clubs are the ones being affected by this lengthy uncertainty has led us to make this decision."

It's a week late.

I'm torn between being incensed that they have hypocritically turned their stance on this 180 degress or pleased that they have seen the light. I bet East Stirling are flaming though.

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"The new board have discussed the matter at length and have taken the decision to cooperate fully with the member clubs and the SFL. Although we intend to pursue our appeal through all the channels open to us the time constraint in so doing are not conducive to the better interests of the game. The fact that the game of football and the fans of several clubs are the ones being affected by this lengthy uncertainty has led us to make this decision."

That's fair enough actually, I'll take them at their word on that. Ignore my earlier comments on their motivation.

Well it's fair enough unless you consider the very real possibility that their "legal brains trust" have realised that irrespective of the promotion and relegation issue (and Livingston will not play in the first division this season), they are going to get shafted for not turning up and pissing East Stirling about.

It's a change of tact, nicey-nicey to everyone, we'll be Livingston's Lovable Lions. Unfortunately, the damage has already been done.

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"The new board have discussed the matter at length and have taken the decision to cooperate fully with the member clubs and the SFL. Although we intend to pursue our appeal through all the channels open to us the time constraint in so doing are not conducive to the better interests of the game. The fact that the game of football and the fans of several clubs are the ones being affected by this lengthy uncertainty has led us to make this decision."

We've finally realised that we're royally pissing off the very people that we need the support of in votes, so are trying to backtrack in the hope that they have the memory span of a goldfish, and vote FOR us in the future

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"The new board have discussed the matter at length and have taken the decision to cooperate fully with the member clubs and the SFL. Although we intend to pursue our appeal through all the channels open to us the time constraint in so doing are not conducive to the better interests of the game. The fact that the game of football and the fans of several clubs are the ones being affected by this lengthy uncertainty has led us to make this decision."

That's fair enough actually, I'll take them at their word on that. Ignore my earlier comments on their motivation.

But that was the situation last weekend as well. Scratching the fixture against East Stirlingshire was not 'conducive to the better interests of the game.' Don't forget how late in the day they left it to call off the game. They're up to something here and it wouldn't surprise me if Livi have been given a 'nod and a wink' that they will face a lenient punishment for last week's no show if they play the rest of their fixtures. There is only self-interest at stake here.

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Regarding comments along the lines of... "demotion to Div 3 is totally unfair because what do you do to someone in the Third Division"... a ridiculous argument. If the SFL wants to demote clubs where possible, then so be it. You don't castrate your own rules due of a hypothetical situation that can only affect 1/3 of clubs. Furthermore, every club doesn't have to get identical punishments, IMO.

Regarding Livingston playing Montrose... there are two ways to look at this. [1] Livi5 are now a lot more worried about losing the final appeal, and don't want to rile the SFL any more; or [2] in fact they are quite confident of winning the appeal, and are happy to do something which earns some gate income; they feel confident will eventually be over-tunred; and would embarrass the SFL if eventually over-turned. Personally, I really feel it's shot to pieces their "no prejudice" argument.

Either Livi5 are desperate for gate £££; or they're much more/much less confident than thought.

Regarding WJR's points... he is perfectly correct that while any decision is framed by the rules, where there is even a meagre scintilla of doubt or interpretation things like contacts, or written correspondance etc. will play a role in what decision is made... In this particular case, however, my point is that - regardless of the doubts or interpretation - SFA never usually dictates to the SFL.

It's a week late.

I'm torn between being incensed that they have hypocritically turned their stance on this 180 degress or pleased that they have seen the light. I bet East Stirling are flaming though.

That's my view. I really don't see how things have changed at all since last weekend's situation. It's all very well for Livi to have a change of heart, but is it for particularly altruistic reasons...?

Edited by HibeeJibee
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Apart from stoking up bigger penalties by refusing to play a second time, the longer their players had gone without a game, the harder they would have found it to get match fit when they did resume.

I don't see how their case would have been prejudiced by playing last week, so the only losers from not playing are Livi (apart from any costs East Stirlingshire incurred last week which they can't recover, although, IMO, Livi should be forced to compensate them for that). They have cut off their nose to spite their face on a point of principle and on their misguided interpretation of the SFL's own rules.

Even if they win their appeal to the SFA, not playing last week doesn't help their argument one jot. And they will still be deducted points for it.

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Guest Forza-Livi
Are you Flag boy?

no but your slagging the people who made the flag buy saying silly little boys when i can asure you most of us aint wee boys and am sure you no this if you are a true livi fan like us who go home and away unlike yourself cause i no the face that goes with your name,anyways of course theres gonna be younger 1s as they like to sing and enjoy the games instead of sitting on your hands like boring old farts like yourself.

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Livi agreeing to play tomorrow while still appealing the decision is bizarre, again as mentioned I can only imagine it is trying to generate either revenue or some good feeling. Whatever, it's hard to believe it is a decision based on anythinG other than self interest.

Were I an East Stirling fan, official, player I wouLd be raging at this turnaround, why on earth could they not done this last Saturday??

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Regarding comments along the lines of... "demotion to Div 3 is totally unfair because what do you do to someone in the Third Division"... a ridiculous argument. If the SFL wants to demote clubs where possible, then so be it. You don't castrate your own rules due of a hypothetical situation that can only affect 1/3 of clubs. Furthermore, every club doesn't have to get identical punishments, IMO.

Regarding Livingston playing Montrose... there are two ways to look at this. [1] Livi5 are now a lot more worried about losing the final appeal, and don't want to rile the SFL any more; or [2] in fact they are quite confident of winning the appeal, and are happy to do something which earns some gate income; they feel confident will eventually be over-tunred; and would embarrass the SFL if eventually over-turned. Personally, I really feel it's shot to pieces their "no prejudice" argument.

Either Livi5 are desperate for gate £££; or they're much more/much less confident than thought.

Regarding WJR's points... he is perfectly correct that while any decision is framed by the rules, where there is even a meagre scintilla of doubt or interpretation things like contacts, or written correspondance etc. will play a role in what decision is made... In this particular case, however, my point is that - regardless of the doubts or interpretation - SFA never usually dictates to the SFL.

That's my view. I really don't see how things have changed at all since last weekend's situation. It's all very well for Livi to have a change of heart, but is it for particularly altruistic reasons...?

Altruism has never been a trait in abundance in West Lothian.

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