Livingston - all the threads merged

[jimbo]

Interesting thread running on LiviLions (which, btw, is populated by an immense number of 100% blinkered Livi fans...) calling on Jim Ballantyne to resign as he can no longer be a Div 2 rep on the SFL Management Committee. Only problem is, he isn't a Div 2 rep - he's an elected Office Bearer.

Ballantyne has actually acted very honorably in all of this, by not participating in committee votes.

And here was silly me thinking it was all done in secret. So who else was there Hibee and how did they vote. We're all desperate to know you know.

[LongTimeLurker]

It's a disgrace quite frankly. They cannot go about like that before the decision has been made.

The disgrace was your club deliberately failing to fulfill a league fixture as a negotiation ploy. I'm skeptical that expulsion will be the result given the effect on third division clubs of having a 9 team league but I suspect a very hefty points deduction that will ensure you can't possibly win promotion is very much on the cards.

[Swampy]

Perhaps because you are a notorious P&B troll who spends far more time writing about every other club bar your own - the usual sign of a right wee shitstirrer.

In short, a grand total of 629 posts in the space of 2 months!

How many about Morton? One comment in passing in an Old Firm thread. That's it.

For a supposed "Morton fan", you do spend an incredible amount of time over on the thread reserved for the Old Firm lowlifes to argybargy...

http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.ph...=112402&hl=

http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.ph...=111774&hl=

http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.ph...=112137&hl=

http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.ph...=109662&hl=

http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.ph...=111490&hl=

http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.ph...=110994&hl=

http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.ph...=111522&hl=

http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.ph...=110563&hl=

http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.ph...=111067&hl=

http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.ph...=110812&hl=

http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.ph...=110521&st=

Ironically you posted : http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.ph...p;#entry3593831 regarding what P&B members you would not like to meet, "Any three Rangers fans and any two Celtic fans. I don't enjoy spending time with embittered bigots."

Which doubtlessly explained why over half your posts in the last two months have been...erm...over at the Old Firm threads (the percentage would be even higher if we took out your multiple Livingston fan baiting here)

Or taunting St Mirren like a f**king 5 year old...

http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.ph...=111874&hl=

http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.ph...=109558&st=

Or Aberdeen...

http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.ph...=111670&hl=

Or Falkirk

http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.ph...=111344&hl=

"I'm on Falkirk TV. What a shite home support."

or just jumping into any old fight over on the Nonsense board where you can get attention to yourself (mostly about religion and sectarianism...oooo, just like those Old Firm supporters on their thread...there's a surprise!).

http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.ph...=111919&hl=

http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.ph...=111576&hl=

http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.ph...c=84645&hl=

http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.ph...=111574&hl=

http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.ph...=111532&hl=

http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.ph...=111311&hl=

http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.ph...=111311&hl=

http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.ph...=111124&hl=

http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.ph...=111022&st=

http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.ph...=110368&st=

http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.ph...=110888&st=

http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.ph...=110831&st=

http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.ph...=110228&st=

So to recap, the evidence is that you are a troll.

And I'm far from the first to have said this, am I

Too long, didn't read

[Kenny_m]

Livi fans should ask McGruther to withdraw the appeal, its not going to be successful.

Rather than Livi fans berating Jim Ballantyne, why do you think the league's attitutde seemed to change from the first meeting to the 2nd.

Is it not that most of the member clubs thought that the LMC had been way too lenient and they complained about the punishment and now McGruther is hoping to win an appeal!

It's all the other chairmen that have made the LMC have the seemingly big turnaround!

[Guest RAITHROVRS1]

FFS I am really pissed about this saga. I hope now they have pissed enough teams now to finally put them in a coffin. Just F**k OFF and die. Pish ground, pish atmosphere, pish accounting, pish fans and no history, how i hate the drums, f**k Off. Liviy for Lavvy.

[TheDoctor]

I don't have time to go back 350+ pages of posts so can anyone tell me just who exactly is on the SFL Management Committee? Jim Ballantyne of Airdrie is, I believe, but who else?

[banjo player]

I don't have time to go back 350+ pages of posts so can anyone tell me just who exactly is on the SFL Management Committee? Jim Ballantyne of Airdrie is, I believe, but who else?

Arthur Montford of Morton

Jock Brown of Albion Rovers

Archie McPherson of Ayr United

Dougie Vipond of Queen of the South

George Galloway of Dundee

[Skyline Drifter]

I don't have time to go back 350+ pages of posts so can anyone tell me just who exactly is on the SFL Management Committee? Jim Ballantyne of Airdrie is, I believe, but who else?

The League Management Committee is made up of three elected office bearers plus two representatives from each division.

The present elected office bearers are Jim Ballantyne (Chairman) (Airdrie United), Brown McMaster (Stenhousemuir) and Donnie McIntyre (Albion Rovers).

I'm not sure who the present representatives for each division are. The first division representatives are Jim Leishman (Dunfermline) and a director from Ayr United whose name I can't recall. Both are new as last year's two reps Stephen Brown (St Johnstone) and John Ruddy (Clyde) had to leave the committee as St Johnstone left the SFL and Ruddy lost his position at Clyde (and they got relegated anyway). I have no idea who the second division reps are. I know McIntyre last year doubled up as a 3rd division rep because they couldn't get a second representative from the 3rd division but I don't know if it's still the case.

Jim Ballantyne made it clear last week he was taking no part in any decision on the Livingston issue as it directly affected his club. I've no idea whether he attended the meeting or not though.

Edited August 10, 2009 by Skyline Drifter

[Aloysius Snuffleupagus]

For the love of God!!!!!

I told you I can't remember where it was, you lot are like a dug with a bone!!!

& for the record the high horse mentality is getting very wearing now too.

Shit, I've been caught out!

Deflect Deflect!

[qpsnapper]

The League Management Committee is made up of three elected office bearers plus two representatives from each division.

The present elected office bearers are Jim Ballantyne (Chairman) (Airdrie United), Brown McMaster (Stenhousemuir) and Donnie McIntyre (Albion Rovers).

I'm not sure who the present representatives for each division are. The first division representatives are Jim Leishman (Dunfermline) and a director from Ayr United whose name I can't recall. Both are new as last year's two reps Stephen Brown (St Johnstone) and John Ruddy (Clyde) had to leave the committee as St Johnstone left the SFL and Ruddy lost his position at Clyde (and they got relegated anyway). I have no idea who the second division reps are. I know McIntyre last year doubled up as a 3rd division rep because they couldn't get a second representative from the 3rd division but I don't know if it's still the case.

Malky Mackay from Queen's Park is on the LMC, if what you say about the LMC being a member short from the Third Division is correct I assume our relegation has fixed that, don't know who has taken his place as a Second Division rep.

Edited August 10, 2009 by qpsnapper

[MB]

Malky Mackay from Queen's Park is on the LMC, if what you say about the LMC being a member short from the Third Division is correct I assume our relegation has fixed that, don't know who has taken his place as a Second Division rep.

I think my information is up-to-date:

Brown McMaster (President) - Stenhousemuir

Jim Ballantyne (Chairman) – Airdrie United

Donny MacIntyre (Treasurer) – Albion Rovers

Lachlan Cameron – Ayr United

Jim Leishman – Dunfermline

Ewen Cameron – Alloa Athletic

Alan Ripley – Arbroath

Malkay Mackay – Queen’s Park

[Skyline Drifter]

I think my information is up-to-date:

Brown McMaster (President) - Stenhousemuir

Jim Ballantyne (Chairman) – Airdrie United

Donny MacIntyre (Treasurer) – Albion Rovers

Lachlan Cameron – Ayr United

Jim Leishman – Dunfermline

Ewen Cameron – Alloa Athletic

Alan Ripley – Arbroath

Malkay Mackay – Queen’s Park

Yes, sounds right. I saw a list of the members last week, I just didn't pay a lot of attention to the bottom two divisions (though I do recall now you mention it that Alan Ripley was on it as I've met Alan and noted it at the time).

Appears MacIntyre is still doubling up then and there are currently only eight members.

Edited August 10, 2009 by Skyline Drifter

[HibeeJibee]

And here was silly me thinking it was all done in secret. So who else was there Hibee and how did they vote. We're all desperate to know you know.

I haven't the faintest idea what people voted 'Yes' or 'No' (if any) - nor do I have any desire to know. It's possible no-one knows anyway, as they may well have held the vote with ballot slips.

The disgrace was your club deliberately failing to fulfill a league fixture as a negotiation ploy. I'm skeptical that expulsion will be the result given the effect on third division clubs of having a 9 team league but I suspect a very hefty points deduction that will ensure you can't possibly win promotion is very much on the cards.

Is there the slight possibility that, once a hefty points deduction is made, Livi 5 may walk away?

Livi fans should ask McGruther to withdraw the appeal, its not going to be successful.

I'm not sure if he can do that even if he wanted to. Which I don't believe he would want to btw...

Rather than Livi fans berating Jim Ballantyne, why do you think the league's attitutde seemed to change from the first meeting to the 2nd.

Is it not that most of the member clubs thought that the LMC had been way too lenient and they complained about the punishment and now McGruther is hoping to win an appeal!

It's all the other chairmen that have made the LMC have the seemingly big turnaround!

Exactly. The MC were too weak: now they may have been too strong. But they were too strong because of pressure from clubs to be stronger. So setting aside everything else, that very fact alone makes it highly unlikely a lot of clubs will rebel against the MC decision and back Livi here.

Although things can still change in the next 4 days, my prediction is now that Livi will lose their appeal heavily (perhaps only a handful of votes in favour... if that). They will then continue with the plans for Livi 5 to take them over, in Div 3... Shortly afterwards, the MC will deduct them a large number of points for scratching the East Stirling game, effectively making promotion nearly impossible (especially with a cheap/poor squad). At this point, will Livi 5 have second thoughts?

Edited August 10, 2009 by HibeeJibee

[Fife Saint]

When the appeal is made I assume they need to "add value" to their original case? What on earth are they going to bring to the table now that they couldn't do last week other than a growing contempt from the other clubs getting fucked about?

[HibeeJibee]

When the appeal is made I assume they need to "add value" to their original case? What on earth are they going to bring to the table now that they couldn't do last week other than a growing contempt from the other clubs getting fucked about?

Not if the main purpose of their appeal is to ask for a more lenient sentence. They may argue on grounds of demotion being over-severe; or point out that they were originally told they'd stay in Div 1; or make some heart-felt plea on the club "dying" in Div 3. It'll fall on deaf ears, however...

[Guest]

I haven't the faintest idea what people voted 'Yes' or 'No' (if any) - nor do I have any desire to know. It's possible no-one knows anyway, as they may well have held the vote with ballot slips.

Is there the slight possibility that, once a hefty points deduction is made, Livi 5 may walk away?

I'm not sure if he can do that even if he wanted to. Which I don't believe he would want to btw...

Exactly. The MC were too weak: now they may have been too strong. But they were too strong because of pressure from clubs to be stronger. So setting aside everything else, that very fact alone makes it highly unlikely a lot of clubs will rebel against the MC decision and back Livi here.

Although things can still change in the next 4 days, my prediction is now that Livi will lose their appeal heavily (perhaps only a handful of votes in favour... if that). They will then continue with the plans for Livi 5 to take them over, in Div 3... Shortly afterwards, the MC will deduct them a large number of points for scratching the East Stirling game, effectively making promotion nearly impossible (especially with a cheap/poor squad). At this point, will Livi 5 have second thoughts?

Well, this really is all about calling their bluff. Mr Rankine is well enough known. I think we all know why he is involved (and it ain't football). However, despite the initial concern, he is seen as a saviour (fair enough), but has also morphed into this altruistic demi-God amongst a goodly number of the Livvy support. It's as if they think he is there because he likes them. This is something they do with every new owner.

The 5 have I believe, said things are progressing swimmingly, and they have a plan for first or third division and will not walk away (so there was another "cry wolf" lie from Mr McGruther). Being driven by what is in it for them, they have made all sorts of veiled threats as to what will happen if they are not allowed to define their own punishment........which is strange given how swimmingly things are going.

Of course, in the third division, they reckon the stadium will be too expensive for them to rent. Given the council leader's prediliction for putting public funds into LFC, surely he could be approached again.

It actually starts to bring together some pretty interesting thinking.................that if a club have a modern(ish) stadium, they deserve to be treated (and punished) differently from everyone else.......even when they only rent it.

The more considered element of the Livvy support know full well that they have benefitted hugely from their 14 years of underhanded existance......they want to bask in the reflected glory of the "achievements" but want to be viewed as the innocents in the wrongdoing which brought about the "achievements".......that was entirely the fault of "others".

Even in the often inept world of Scottish football, they must have known that sooner or later, the rest of that community would get heartily sick of the trademark dishonesty that followed the club around each and every day of its life. Even now, we seem to be hearing less than the gospel truth coming out from the appointed administrator ...........doubtless he will consider it merely an opinion.

Rights or wrongs of the appeal............ach who knows. The fact that this club will still spit and scratch like some spoilt brat whenever punishment time comes around and claim they have been punished enough when they have never ever been punished for anything other than a transfer embargo simply beggars belief.

Now my bias is well enough known. That being the case. I really do hope the SFL raise themselves up to their full height and make Livingston FC and all of its environs suffer a good old chunk of the discomfort they have been happy to pile onto the shoulders of others...........and most of that was a hell of a lot more important than a bit of fretting about whether or not a football club was being harshly penalized. Livingston FC shed no tears for the "death knells" it may have presided over for other people and companies it ripped off. If some of that comes home to roost this coming week, forgive me if my tear ducts remain bone dry.

Edited August 10, 2009 by Guest

[phantoms-livi-lass]

Duncan, As I understand it was McGruther who dealt with the Falkirk admin/liquidation? finance problems, how did he go about it then?

[HibeeJibee]

Rather than Livi fans berating Jim Ballantyne

Had another foray into the skewed world of LiviLions just now: and another conundrum seems to rear it's head. Livi fans are spouting off all over the shop over Ballantyne - how he must've been influencing this decision, he is predjudiced, how he shouldn't be allowed a say on the committee etc. etc. (Of course he hasn't actually participated in the MC votes... but they don't believe it...!!).

Meanwhile, they are going on about how Leishman had an empathy with Livi and their plight, and how he wouldn't want Livi heavily punished, and how good it is to have a vote on their side !!

You cannot have it both ways 'chaps'... either Leishman (who is abroad IIRC anyway) is as out of order as Ballantyne is; or (as is the actual case) neither of them have acted inappropriately at all.

EDIT TO ADD: There seems to be a fear on LiviLions that they may be expelled for scratching the East Stirling game, but that doesn't help anyone in the SFL, so I think it will be a large points fine.

Edited August 10, 2009 by HibeeJibee

[The Old Northerner]

Right. I'm still mulling over the apparent about-face between a week last Thursday (Div 1 no bother) and last Wednesday (Sorry lads, it's Div 3). Has anyone got any info as to whether the bond (and/or any other guarantees) were actually presented to the SFL at the 2nd meeting? It would seem to me to be the simplest explanation for the 'change of heart'.

[phantoms-livi-lass]

Right. I'm still mulling over the apparent about-face between a week last Thursday (Div 1 no bother) and last Wednesday (Sorry lads, it's Div 3). Has anyone got any info as to whether the bond (and/or any other guarantees) were actually presented to the SFL at the 2nd meeting? It would seem to me to be the simplest explanation for the 'change of heart'.

There lies the problem = lack of info, which then has lead to a million assumptions!