The Old Northerner Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 Ok I'll rephrase it: most of the Livi fans do not think we are too good for the third division & we would be very happy just to survive. That is, unfortunately, slightly less bollocks. The 'martyr' syndrome is alive and well and being encouraged on your site. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Master Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 (edited) Shire's website suggests they don't intend to turn up. Leaving them open to sanction too ?http://www.eaststirlingfc.co.uk/news_artic...livipreview.htm Perhaps giving the SFL prior notice of your intentions negates the need for the other team to turn up. Either that, or the website is wrong in that respect as well as the "prejudice" thing. Livi will be back in the 1st division once the legal eagles check the small print. Where does the law come into this? The rule is there in black and white: the SFL can impose any punishment they see fit for breaches of insolvency rules. Edited August 7, 2009 by Sir Calum Melville 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 (edited) McGruther on Sky Sports News just now saying Livingston will survive as he's recieved 2 different acceptable offers. 1 is an offer for Livi as a 1st division club and the other is an offer for Livi as a 3rd division club, so no matter the result of the appeal, Livi will survive. But does he have an offer for a 0th division club, after Livi are expelled for scratching a game ? Edited August 7, 2009 by HibeeJibee 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest American Diamond Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 Here's the official SFL line, somewhat different from the wording on the Shire site.http://www.scottishfootballleague.com/news...amp;newsid=2845 East Stirlingshire v Livingston The Scottish Football League have this evening been advised by that Livingston Football Club will not be fulfilling their IRN-BRU SFL Third Division fixture against East Stirlingshire at Ochilview Park tomorrow, Saturday August 8, which had a scheduled 3.00pm kick off. It is our duty to communicate this information to all supporters who were planning to attend the match. This matter will now be referred to the Scottish Football League Management Committee for consideration. All other fourteen fixtures in the IRN-BRU Scottish Football League will be played tomorrow as previously communicated. edited to add link My interpretation of that is that Livi are going to get hammered for failing to fulfil the fixture. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PELE Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 No. As the SFL rules explicity state that there is no right of appeal over a Rule 28 punishment.The supporters cannot play, but the players themselves (including any U-19s) can turn up and play if registered. The alternative is the end of Livingston football club. Check to check-mate... In theory they should charge the league minimum; in practice they should just throw the doors open. But if they need to pay day rental to Stenny, perhaps they'll have to charge something? EDIT TO ADD: Stuff about Shire is pointless now as they're not playing a game tomorrow. Oddly. I was jesting about the fans, not serious. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike rankine Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 I just don't understand that.How could fulfilling a fixture prejudice the process? Because by agreeing to fulfil a 3rd Division fixture, Livi could be seen to be accepting the decision and therefore weaken their case at appeal. I don't agree with their stance, but it holds some legal basis, e.g. If your employer dismisses you and immediately re-employs you under different T&Cs, if you still turn up for work and accept your salary into your bank account then, in the eyes of the law, it can be interpreted that you are accepting the change in your circumstances. Not a perfect analogy I know but... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cityfan Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 (edited) But does he have an offer for a 0th division club, after Livi are expelled for scratching a game ? He kept barking on about how it's within their right not to play tomorrow as under SFL rules, as they have appealed, they are still a first division club. Edited August 7, 2009 by cityfan 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Northerner Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 Because by agreeing to fulfil a 3rd Division fixture, Livi could be seen to be accepting the decision and therefore weaken their case at appeal. I don't agree with their stance, but it holds some legal basis, e.g.If your employer dismisses you and immediately re-employs you under different T&Cs, if you still turn up for work and accept your salary into your bank account then, in the eyes of the law, it can be interpreted that you are accepting the change in your circumstances. Not a perfect analogy I know but... Unlikely in this case 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 (edited) Perhaps prior giving the SFL prior notice of your intentions negates the need for the other team to turn up.Either that, or the website is wrong in that respect as well as the "prejudice" thing. That's my presumption: if Livingston have given the SFL a letter or E-mail stating they will not turn up tomorrow, an Estonia situation won't be required. The Management Committee decide on it. Where does the law come into this?The rule is there in black and white: the SFL can impose any punishment they see fit for breaches of insolvency rules. This is what I do not understand. There is no law. The appeal can only be on the basis of Livi's punishment being over-severe. The SFL decide the punishment. The courts are not involved... Edited August 7, 2009 by HibeeJibee 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoss Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 My interpretation of that is that Livi are going to get hammered for failing to fulfil the fixture. Looks that way. There's a sort of amusing prospect that their appeal could be successful, they could get a ten point deduction instead of relegation - plus another fifteen points for failing to fulfil the fixture and start back in the first division on minus 25. (Doubt that'll happen but several such unlikely and farcical things have happened already this week.) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Snuffleupagus Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 I have a couple of questions which Hibee Jibee or Skyline Drifter might be best placed to answer. Is there a limit on the penalty for not fulfilling a fixture? Could the club be expelled for this regardless of whether the administrator has a potential buyer for a 3rd Division Livi? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinheed Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 Livi will be back in the 1st division once the legal eagles check the small print. No they won't. There is no legal print small enough and no checked eagles in the universe to make that happen. B) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Master Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 I have a couple of questions which Hibee Jibee or Skyline Drifter might be best placed to answer.Is there a limit on the penalty for not fulfilling a fixture? Could the club be expelled for this regardless of whether the administrator has a potential buyer for a 3rd Division Livi? I'm neither HJ or SD, but I believe the answer is "yes". In fact, I think most rules regarding punishments are open enough to allow the SFL to do what they see fit. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 He kept barking on about how it's within their right not to play tomorrow as under SFL rules, because they have appealed, they are still a first division club. But SFL rule imply clearly that the penalty stands until over-turned; that it can be over-turned; and seperately, that failing to fulfil any fixture issued by the Secretary is a breach of rule 28.4... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Blue Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 Livingston get their way then - fucking ridiculous. In my opinion there is now no hope for them. Livi have signed their own death warrant, had they accepted the ruling they would still, probably, have a club with a future. In a few years I would have expected them to get back up to the first division, I honestly now think they have no way back. Even if they had been expelled from the SFL and started again in the EOS league they would have had a chance of regaining their place within in the SFL, it would have taken a few years but it was better than where they will now find themselves. The SFL and its member clubs will have long memories should they survive in some form and ever seek re-admission to the league. I do feel for the fans and except that they were limited in how they could have stopped this farce. You really don't want to F**k about with the people who have the power. R.I.P Livi. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 Looks that way.There's a sort of amusing prospect that their appeal could be successful, they could get a ten point deduction instead of relegation - plus another fifteen points for failing to fulfil the fixture and start back in the first division on minus 25. (Doubt that'll happen but several such unlikely and farcical things have happened already this week.) Anything is possible, but Livingston have rather shot themselves in the foot. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PELE Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 I am surpised Livi are not protesting about being moved to the 3rd division forum, because they are too good for it. Watch, they will refuse to post soon! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricoh-1874 Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 Has this game been postponed ? sorry if it's been mentioned already 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 McGruther on Sky Sports News just now saying Livingston will survive as he's recieved 2 different acceptable offers. 1 is an offer for Livi as a 1st division club and the other is an offer for Livi as a 3rd division club, so no matter the result of the appeal, Livi will survive. I wonder if they both come from the same people. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phantoms-livi-lass Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 That is, unfortunately, slightly less bollocks. The 'martyr' syndrome is alive and well and being encouraged on your site. I'll try again then; I do not think Livi are too good for the third division & I would be very happy just to survive. That ok? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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