Guest Flash Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 From Scotsman last week, I did however misread the part about waving/deducting expenses, but only 108 fans actually paid.McGruther had appealed to the supporters to turn out yesterday at Palmerston Park for the Alba Cup match against Queen of the South. He had hoped that a good response from the fans would bring in a cash infusion, even after Queens deducted expenses and their 50 per cent share of the 1,558 gate in Dumfries. At kick-off in the club's first and last competitive match of the season yesterday, precisely 108 people sat in the area of the stadium reserved for the away support. Add a gaggle of directors and hangers-on and chairman Massone, and there were probably 130 fans of Livingston in Palmerston Park – a tenth of what was needed. The report was wrong because it was based on a journo counting the Livi fans. The number through the gate was 130 (big difference ). The 50% is wrong too because it is 42.5%, or something like that. Still, not bad considering they had 8% of the fans. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larry the lion Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Sorry, I understand the frustration but this is like a witch hunt on LSD. I know there is a lot of passion and yes, livi have gotten themselves out of the hangmans noose again. Just that fact shouldn't upset you (and if it does and you just hoped for the destruction of one team to further your own, then this whole next bit about the technicalities is not aimed at you. You are too thick and biaised.) Lord Glennie said the appointment would allow the administrator "to keep the company running as a football club as best he can". That was what happened when we were appointed AN INTERIM MANAGER. McGruther is an Administrator by title, but has been an interim manager in practice. Lord Glennie also said it seemed appropriate to make the order "to achieve some stability with the management of the company in the medium term". Admin date is set at 18th Aug. Club is in a legally placed limbo status. Please stop believing everything you read in the press. SFL will not have reason to ask their membership to vote (unless they feel a change is needed anyway to try and avoid uncrupulous/mentally ill owners form singlehandedly destroying loyal fans clubs, i think there needs to be something) nor will they have any mandate to impose sanctions i.e. the club is now solvent(bond), able to fufill it's commitments and will not be in administration come the start of the season. The creditors will be no worse off then they would have been if the whole thing had goen tits up. (99% sure of the next bit) HMRC and the council will get all their money, so the people of the country will not be Fcuked over, tax and rent paid. The rest of the creditors (who just like in Dundee's sitation are mostly local livi fans) will get something out of the CVA, unless they don't agree to it. If they do accept, then frankly that is their business and no amount of ill will from other teams fans can change that. We will be fielding a much weakened squad and frankly may get relegated anyway. We have to find our level one way or another. That the two outspoken managers were from teams that stood to benefit from livi's demise, speaks volumes. They use innacurate and emotive language and seem not to understand the timelines or the actual facts involved. Giving players hope of avoiding relegation through the destruction of another team doesn't inspire confidence in the gaffer imo. Again, I'd like to say I can understand this from others perspective, but effectively Livi have met the stipulations all clubs agree to when they agree to join the league. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AND180Y Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 I don't think UEFA & FIFA would get involved at this level. They are normally happy for the country's home association to look after their own problems. Are you taking the pics at tonights fundraiser? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AND180Y Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Sorry, I understand the frustration but this is like a witch hunt on LSD. I know there is a lot of passion and yes, livi have gotten themselves out of the hangmans noose again. Just that fact shouldn't upset you (and if it does and you just hoped for the destruction of one team to further your own, then this whole next bit about the technicalities is not aimed at you. You are too thick and biaised.)Lord Glennie said the appointment would allow the administrator "to keep the company running as a football club as best he can". That was what happened when we were appointed AN INTERIM MANAGER. McGruther is an Administrator by title, but has been an interim manager in practice. Lord Glennie also said it seemed appropriate to make the order "to achieve some stability with the management of the company in the medium term". Admin date is set at 18th Aug. Club is in a legally placed limbo status. Please stop believing everything you read in the press. SFL will not have reason to ask their membership to vote (unless they feel a change is needed anyway to try and avoid uncrupulous/mentally ill owners form singlehandedly destroying loyal fans clubs, i think there needs to be something) nor will they have any mandate to impose sanctions i.e. the club is now solvent(bond), able to fufill it's commitments and will not be in administration come the start of the season. The creditors will be no worse off then they would have been if the whole thing had goen tits up. (99% sure of the next bit) HMRC and the council will get all their money, so the people of the country will not be Fcuked over, tax and rent paid. The rest of the creditors (who just like in Dundee's sitation are mostly local livi fans) will get something out of the CVA, unless they don't agree to it. If they do accept, then frankly that is their business and no amount of ill will from other teams fans can change that. We will be fielding a much weakened squad and frankly may get relegated anyway. We have to find our level one way or another. That the two outspoken managers were from teams that stood to benefit from livi's demise, speaks volumes. They use innacurate and emotive language and seem not to understand the timelines or the actual facts involved. Giving players hope of avoiding relegation through the destruction of another team doesn't inspire confidence in the gaffer imo. Again, I'd like to say I can understand this from others perspective, but effectively Livi have met the stipulations all clubs agree to when they agree to join the league. HMRC and the council will not get all their money, they can't it is against the law of to prefer one creditor over another. Oh and no fcuking way are Livi solvent not until the £1.7 million is paid back in full or a CVA is arranged. Don't count too much on the support of businesses either. Thick and biased - Kettle, pot, black? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovers_Lad Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 We will be fielding a much weakened squad Full time? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Flash Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Sorry, I understand the frustration but this is like a witch hunt on LSD. I know there is a lot of passion and yes, livi have gotten themselves out of the hangmans noose again. Just that fact shouldn't upset you (and if it does and you just hoped for the destruction of one team to further your own, then this whole next bit about the technicalities is not aimed at you. You are too thick and biaised.)Lord Glennie said the appointment would allow the administrator "to keep the company running as a football club as best he can". That was what happened when we were appointed AN INTERIM MANAGER. McGruther is an Administrator by title, but has been an interim manager in practice. Lord Glennie also said it seemed appropriate to make the order "to achieve some stability with the management of the company in the medium term". Admin date is set at 18th Aug. Club is in a legally placed limbo status. Please stop believing everything you read in the press. SFL will not have reason to ask their membership to vote (unless they feel a change is needed anyway to try and avoid uncrupulous/mentally ill owners form singlehandedly destroying loyal fans clubs, i think there needs to be something) nor will they have any mandate to impose sanctions i.e. the club is now solvent(bond), able to fufill it's commitments and will not be in administration come the start of the season. The creditors will be no worse off then they would have been if the whole thing had goen tits up. (99% sure of the next bit) HMRC and the council will get all their money, so the people of the country will not be Fcuked over, tax and rent paid. The rest of the creditors (who just like in Dundee's sitation are mostly local livi fans) will get something out of the CVA, unless they don't agree to it. If they do accept, then frankly that is their business and no amount of ill will from other teams fans can change that. We will be fielding a much weakened squad and frankly may get relegated anyway. We have to find our level one way or another. That the two outspoken managers were from teams that stood to benefit from livi's demise, speaks volumes. They use innacurate and emotive language and seem not to understand the timelines or the actual facts involved. Giving players hope of avoiding relegation through the destruction of another team doesn't inspire confidence in the gaffer imo. Again, I'd like to say I can understand this from others perspective, but effectively Livi have met the stipulations all clubs agree to when they agree to join the league. Sorry to keep repeating this, but a club does not have to be insolvent or in administration in order to suffer sanctions. If they thought that appointing an "interim manager" was a clever way of avoiding any penalty, they were wrong and they clearly hadn't read the rules properly. Have you read them? Of course, whether anybody does anything about it is a different matter. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(o)sean Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 That the two outspoken managers were from teams that stood to benefit from livi's demise, speaks volumes. They use innacurate and emotive language and seem not to understand the timelines or the actual facts involved. Giving players hope of avoiding relegation through the destruction of another team doesn't inspire confidence in the gaffer imo. well said that man 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glensburgh Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 thick and biased, as an Airdrieonian, maybe I am. What made the difference from 2002 (Airdrie told to do one) and Thursday (Livi saved)? Money? If so whose and payable to whom? The whole thing stinks, everyone can see it, or maybe we are all just thick and biased Airdrieonians, at heart. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCL Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Are you taking the pics at tonights fundraiser? I would have but I'm hosting a big celebration party at my hoose tonight :bounce2 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCL Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 thick and biased, as an Airdrieonian, maybe I am. What made the difference from 2002 (Airdrie told to do one) and Thursday (Livi saved)? Money? If so whose and payable to whom? The whole thing stinks, everyone can see it, or maybe we are all just thick and biased Airdrieonians, at heart. The difference is the fans. We are a cuddlly-wuddly family club and you have Section B 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Thats Livingston just paid £50,000 to Massone, then they have the players wages today, a bus to Coatbridge (unless they are still taking cars), plus all the other overheads, then they have the long trip up to Dingwall, when is money going to start to come in ?, how the fcuk can they survive. They are paying the wages again? Did no one tell them that Massone had the wages for the players and staff on Wednesday? He must have paid them, the players are getting paid twice in one week! They can't survive if they are paying their players double. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AND180Y Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 I would have but I'm hosting a big celebration party at my hoose tonight Neighbours leaving do? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stadio Delle Almondvale Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Is that a 'yes' or a 'no' then? I have read with interest the views, amongst others, of Stadio Delle Almondvale and LLD on this thread. I think I know how they would respond to my perfectly reasonable question. As for you and the other Livi fans on P&B, I am not so sure. Would you care to enlighten me? It would be hard to blame some LIvi fans for going on the defensive given some of the comments posted on this thread. Just like the abuse that's flowed their way, there is bound to be some flowing in the other direction. Remember you will always take more note of the extreme than of the sensible consensus. Well I am sorry E.Livi, but thats the biggest none statement i have ever heard.You will spend all but one half pence in the pound you earn. What kind of business plan is that??? What happens if you only get say an average of 1600 fans per game. By the time you have paid back some of the CVA, wages, rent, rates and so on your going to have a shortfall unless you drastically cut back some where. Are your existing players going to take a smaller wage as thats where your biggest outlay will be. Are you going to have a smaller squad. What level of security will there now be. On average that costs about £12.50 per man hour unless you have your own certificated event personel which would cost you about £7 per man hour. Policing is darned expensive too. I think you have only been told what you wanted to hear pal. Your going to need at least 2000 for every home game to just survive at the very minimul level. One things for certain, your 1/2 pence in the £ is going to build a good bank balance, in 10000 years. This was a figure of speech. The point Nixon was making was that from this day forward, the intention is that the club does not spend a single penny more than it earns. I am not sure where you get this 2000/ home game for survival figure. LFC have the potential to make a good deal of money from off field activities and also other on field activities. A business plan has been formulated and I am sure the intention will be not to lose money. Aye but they are also so delusional to think Scottish Football "needs" a senior club in West Lothian I'm sure the SFL was doing OK way back before Livi joined the league. That is a very stupid viewpoint. is it just me or do other people think kenny's rant in the paper could be because his club would have benefitted from livi's demise.and now they will have to do it the hard way instead of having it handed to them on a plate AGAIN If I was looking for a juicy quote to print, I know which club's door I would be knocking on! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovers_Lad Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Full time players? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaffenThinMint Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 The difference is the fans. We are a cuddlly-wuddly family club and you have Section B You say that as a joke, but there's more than a grain of truth in that... For all the bluster, there are more than a few local authorities breathing a sigh of relief knowing that Airdrie's fans will not be visiting them. Airdrie have become the perennial underachievers of Scottish football - and that has a lot to do with locals staying away from a club that's allowed itself to become a "wee team" for the lowlife surrounding Rangers who are too mean to buy an Ibrox season ticket because they're always on telly anyway. It's high time they stopped getting so defensive, stopped the denials, admit that they do have a problem with a group of little shits - and declare "open season" on them Then they might find other clubs willing to come to agree with them other than the side looking to co-habit with them in the not too distant future (you heard it here first!) Not that we should be too surprised in Albion Rovers case anyway - they've always been first in the queue when it comes to trying to benefit from other's misery. Took Third Lanark's floodlights (still in use!) and were outbid for the stand at Gretna. They were interested in the Paisley Midden stands kit as well, until they were told they'd have to pay money for it & weren't going to be able to raid the Love Street skip! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbers Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Quote Again, I'd like to say I can understand this from others perspective, but effectively Livi have met the stipulations all clubs agree to when they agree to join the league. Unquote What a load of old garbage. Livi have not met the stipulations they agreed when joining the league. God almighty, are you thick, dense or just plain stupid. You have broken so many of those stipulations its almost uncountable. Yet the SFL have decided to vote in your favour. If this happened in a murder case there would be so much outcry the judges would be banished after being hung drawn and quartered. This is not finished yet, and you certainly havent, as yet survived, so please dont gloat till your fat lady sings. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MalckyB Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Yes, but that income was probably never declared to the taxman, and probably represented (a fanciful) turnover rather than profit. This is the stuff that fans will latch onto as a reason for it being ok to keep on spending. I say it again...........live within your means and the outfall will be a very disgruntled support. There seems to be a belief that there are loads and loads of sponsors and fans simply waiting on Massone leaving so that they can throw money your way again. The belief too that there are shedloads of "lapsed fans" waiting to come back. I know a good few of these "lapsed fans", and they won't be back.........ever. LFC were a cheap Saturday creche, season tickets could be had for buttons, and they were watching a club that were spending two or three million a season more than they were earning. Those days are gone, and those lapsed fans are gone. If you live within your means, the stark truth is that you are more likely to see attendances drop than see them increase.You can see how little views have really changed. Innes goes, and people expect his "salary" to be spent on replacement players.........absolutely no grasp of the reality of what lies ahead. There is a lot of sense in this post....must admit while I am happy that we survived I just wonder how the support will react to us losing all our best players and not many if any, being bought...and there is the problem of getting folk back..many of whom were there for the 'glory days' but would not now be interested in watching 2nd or 3rd div football...its gonna be a long road back and I dont think we will ever see a return to the heady days when we were sitting 3rd in the SPL. That we are still alive though is enough for now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glensburgh Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 You say that as a joke, but there's more than a grain of truth in that...For all the bluster, there are more than a few local authorities breathing a sigh of relief knowing that Airdrie's fans will not be visiting them. Airdrie have become the perennial underachievers of Scottish football - and that has a lot to do with locals staying away from a club that's allowed itself to become a "wee team" for the lowlife surrounding Rangers who are too mean to buy an Ibrox season ticket because they're always on telly anyway. It's high time they stopped getting so defensive, stopped the denials, admit that they do have a problem with a group of little shits - and declare "open season" on them Then they might find other clubs willing to come to agree with them other than the side looking to co-habit with them in the not too distant future (you heard it here first!) Not that we should be too surprised in Albion Rovers case anyway - they've always been first in the queue when it comes to trying to benefit from other's misery. Took Third Lanark's floodlights (still in use!) and were outbid for the stand at Gretna. They were interested in the Paisley Midden stands kit as well, until they were told they'd have to pay money for it & weren't going to be able to raid the Love Street skip! too many lines out at once, you'll get them tangled. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny_m Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 The frustration of Airdrie fans is directed at the footballing authorities. We were a proud club and one of Scotlands oldest clubs who got into financial difficulties, it all ended and everyone knows what happened after that. There just seems to be an amazing effort to help Livi that was not available to us and particularly galling is that our last "preferred bidder" (although he didn't stick his head above the parapet) was Neil Rankine! Airdrie bashing is a popular pastime on P & B and believe me, loved by Airdrie fans, but to be clear i think most Airdrie fans accept: We got relegated deservedly. ( and don't want back up with the side that we have) We didn't particularly want Livi to go bust. We wanted livi punished ( like most and even Livi fans agreed with this) All in all, its the Scottish League who have created this anti Livi feeling with their total incompetence as they never stirred my loins one way or another before. On Kenny Black's comments, put yourself in his position last summer when on the other end of the phone was " sorry, i can get £300 per week more at Livi"! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annan4eva Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 2 words....They canae Your spot on , i can still hear Brookes Mileson on TV promising a new ground with plans in hand and all what he was going to do . What a pile o pish that was , and you know what was worse everybody down here knew it ( or most anyway ) will the SFL never learn 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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