AND180Y Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 One more personal comment and its open season. What is that supposed to mean? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steak & Barley Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 The club is still young, this disaster is an eye opener for many, the state of scottish football is only becoming clear to me through my investigations and learing curve from my own clubs problems. I wonder how many of you realsie how close your going to come to this in the near future? Livi just had a head start on the road to disaster. The idea of getting a lecture on the sad state of Scottish football and clubs from you is a bit rich. While you and many of your fellow fans may have been totally and conveniently ignorant of where you club was heading most of us weren't. Most fans are well aware of the general health of their club, it only appears to be something deep and mysterious if you come from west Lothian. Livi did not just have a head start on this road, Livi designed and laid the road out. You have been here before and learned nothing and now you come again asking for empathy and understanding after competing unfairly in relation to every other club in the division. Once again you clap like performing seals as the latest batch of saviours ride over the horizon, just like you did with Massone and all the others, aided and abetted by a tame council and a gutless, corrupt regulatory body. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Flash Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 The bits in bold are something that Livingston have no grasp of. You have never lived within your means since you came into this league. It honestly wouldn't surprise me if we are in the same scenario next summer because if lessons weren't learnt the first time round I fail to see why anything will be different now even with another brush with admistration / liquidation.I am utterly stunned by the decision made yesterday. I was by no means hoping you would go out of business but I fully expected it to happen given your dire prediciment. Somehow you have managed to weasel out of it again and that sticks in the throats of fans of clubs who cut their cloth accordingly every year to survive. They are the good of Scottish football. Teams like Livi racking up millions of pounds of debt through over spending are not good for Scottish football. You are kidding yourself if you think that is the case. As someone else said earlier, you should have been put down yesterday and you know it. The thing is - it is now up to the other full members of the SFL to decide Livi's fate. If they don't vote for the rule change, or if they uphold any appeal against the lack of sanctions, it is still possible that Livi will go out of business or be relegated to the Third division or receive some other punishment. We will see shortly whether the chairmen of clubs who "live within their means" feel as strongly about this as most of their fans do. If Livi escape unpunished, or virtually unpunished, it will be the responsibility of the SFL clubs who vote in favour. There will then be zero room for fans of clubs voting in favour to take the moral high ground because their chairmen will have sanctioned the very thing everybody is protesting about, So, everybody who votes in favour of doing nothing effectively has the same mentality of those in charge (or who were in charge) of Livi. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbers Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 LTL how can you say, so glibly, you would be devastated for your creditors. They aint going to get paid what they are owed, are they??? So how can you expect them to support you for a third time.?? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyline Drifter Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 Surely you can't just unilaterally transfer debts from one company to another? How would that work? Of course you can. Dundee hived down almost all their debt to two subsidiary companies last year. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
staggy4life Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 So it was all just a publicity stunt? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Glesga Frm Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 So if Livi go unpunished, do we think all opposition fans should boycott there matches at almondvale? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larry the lion Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 LTL how can you say, so glibly, you would be devastated for your creditors.They aint going to get paid what they are owed, are they??? So how can you expect them to support you for a third time.?? I personally know creditors, I've not been glib with any comment. Well, maybe my first couple of posts. They might not support us, we don't EXPECT anything. Did you think I came on here for the first time ever to get lots of sympathy and hugs all round. PPfft, that would be naive. All we can hope is the local creditors recognise the fact that the entity in control of Livi, one way or another, will not be there steering us into dangerous waters. If we can't afford something in the future, it will simply have to be that way. If we drop division after division, it'll have to be that way. If Massone doesn't take the offer, we might liquidate, it will have to be that way. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stadio Delle Almondvale Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 Unfortunately for you so does Neil Rankine.I see Flynn saying he would put money in too, always could smell a property deal that **** If Almondvale is unsustainable we should be packing the seats up now. It's no secret that the council desire more housing closer to the town centre ( I use the term town centre loosely). A ground holding 3500-5000 would do nicely. Something modular that can be upgraded with good facilities for us and the local community. It almost sounds sensible. The council though, wouldn't want us to far away from the centre of things as ancilary spending by fans and conference attendees would suffer as a consequence. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbers Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 (edited) Well, i will happily accept this from you as sincere and wish you all the best for the future. I do hope you start again and this time do it properly. Butm i do hope the present livi do not survive. Sorry but i feel strongly about this. GF Yes i for one do think we should avoid all games at livingston if they survive and go unpunished. Edited July 31, 2009 by Numbers 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stadio Delle Almondvale Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 So if Livi go unpunished, do we think all opposition fans should boycott there matches at almondvale? That would be cutting your nose off to spite your face. Does your team not derive at least some benefit from a large away support? By all means come along and call us names all afternoon but don't penalise your team. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiG Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 Once again you clap like performing seals as the latest batch of saviours ride over the horizon, just like you did with Massone and all the others, aided and abetted by a tame council and a gutless, corrupt regulatory body. Pretty much what I was thinking. It's a shame that Massones posts have been removed from LiviLions so we don't get a chance to relieve the fawning over the Italian sneak, sorry, hero, sorry, villan. The thing is - it is now up to the other full members of the SFL to decide Livi's fate. If they don't vote for the rule change, or if they uphold any appeal against the lack of sanctions, it is still possible that Livi will go out of business or be relegated to the Third division or receive some other punishment.We will see shortly whether the chairmen of clubs who "live within their means" feel as strongly about this as most of their fans do. If Livi escape unpunished, or virtually unpunished, it will be the responsibility of the SFL clubs who vote in favour. There will then be zero room for fans of clubs voting in favour to take the moral high ground because their chairmen will have sanctioned the very thing everybody is protesting about, So, everybody who votes in favour of doing nothing effectively has the same mentality of those in charge (or who were in charge) of Livi. Completely agree with you. A vote for saving Livi is essentially endorsing their actions of the past few years and giving them the opportunity to do it all over again. Hopefully this does not happen. Whilst I never wished for them to die I do not wish for them to escape scot free as they currently seem to be doing. They must be punished so this farce does not happen again. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Glesga Frm Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 It just pisses me off that the SFL bend over backwards for Livi, and when it was thistle in the shit, did they go out there way for us? nooooooo..... ok, I don't wanna see Livi go bust, but I would like to see some form of punishment on there part, otherwise any team in administration will go un-punished. Which just makes us teams trying to cut back on outgoing funds feel like saying "whats the point?!" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdinburghPar1975 Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 I wonder how many of you realsie how close your going to come to this in the near future? Livi just had a head start on the road to disaster. Larry, one of the reasons I find this hard to take is purely from a selfish perspective. As you probably know a few years ago Dunfermline were very close to a financial meltdown (as i'm sure Captn Sensible is all to keen to mention ), we'd signed players when we must have known we couldn't afford them in order to try and stay in the league and compete. When it became clear that we were heading to admin we had to reduce all the players salaries and start making cut backs, as a result of this we are where we are now and we will struggle for quite a few years yet i'd imagine. Whilst I don't always agree with the board they didn't want the club in admin and looked to pay the debt back. I do sympathise with Livi supporters in that they have an owner who is blinkered to what is going on and continually has lied to them...but he's stil there! I'm glad you survived, but I think a large 'Luton Town' style points reduction is required. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Flash Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 (edited) That would be cutting your nose off to spite your face. Does your team not derive at least some benefit from a large away support?By all means come along and call us names all afternoon but don't penalise your team. I don't think it makes any difference. We have a reasonably decent sized away support and it doesn't prevent us from being regularly gubbed. Ross County hardly bring anyone to Palmerston (understanably) and it doesn't prevent them from winning there. I don't think our home record is any worse against teams who bring a large support compared to those who don't. Nor is our away record better at places where we take most fans. Edited July 31, 2009 by Flash 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larry the lion Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 Larry, one of the reasons I find this hard to take is purely from a selfish perspective. As you probably know a few years ago Dunfermline were very close to a financial meltdown (as i'm sure Captn Sensible is all to keen to mention ), we'd signed players when we must have known we couldn't afford them in order to try and stay in the league and compete. When it became clear that we were heading to admin we had to reduce all the players salaries and start making cut backs, as a result of this we are where we are now and we will struggle for quite a few years yet i'd imagine. Whilst I don't always agree with the board they didn't want the club in admin and looked to pay the debt back.I do sympathise with Livi supporters in that they have an owner who is blinkered to what is going on and continually has lied to them...but he's stil there! I'm glad you survived, but I think a large 'Luton Town' style points reduction is required. we'll take our lumps mate, anything to move forward without all this grief... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gogsyboy Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 That would be cutting your nose off to spite your face. Does your team not derive at least some benefit from a large away support?By all means come along and call us names all afternoon but don't penalise your team. its not you or indeed (to a lesser extent anyway) your club that will rile the majority of other fans-bigger clubs with far more history and past successes have gone down the same road that Livvi has taken- the difference is that you have appeared, on the surface anyway, to have been let off extremely lightly, its the gutless SFL which has angered so many on this thread and it is that so-called "authorititive body" that is most deserving of receiving abuse 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Venom Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 The thing is - it is now up to the other full members of the SFL to decide Livi's fate. If they don't vote for the rule change, or if they uphold any appeal against the lack of sanctions, it is still possible that Livi will go out of business or be relegated to the Third division or receive some other punishment.We will see shortly whether the chairmen of clubs who "live within their means" feel as strongly about this as most of their fans do. If Livi escape unpunished, or virtually unpunished, it will be the responsibility of the SFL clubs who vote in favour. Id be astonished if Ayr were to vote in favour of Livi. Those who have cleaned up BB's legacy would surely be contradicting the measures they had to take years ago to keep ayr united in existance. It'd surely also be a slap in the face to Clyde who have also taken the hit to ensure a club with a future without relying on shysters who for some reason seem to line up to take on Livi. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 its not you or indeed (to a lesser extent anyway) your club that will rile the majority of other fans-bigger clubs with far more history and past successes have gone down the same road that Livvi has taken- the difference is that you have appeared, on the surface anyway, to have been let off extremely lightly, its the gutless SFL which has angered so many on this thread and it is that so-called "authorititive body" that is most deserving of receiving abuse Exactly. It is possible for fellow football fans to have some sympathy for Livi fans, though that may still be in short supply. However, the SFL have embarrassed Scottish football with their leniency. Can Livingston live within their means if they pay off their creditors? Of course not, because they have no intention of paying off their creditors in full. What is best for Scottish football is that there is no rule in place where a financially moribund club, living beyond its means for years, is allowed to stay in the first division. This situation has much to do with the shameful way the SFL has managed the situation. Is it okay to accumulate huge debts, have much of them virtually written off and then just start again? How many times should Livingston be allowed to do this? Surely even some Livi fans can understand why many people do not think it is right and proper that we keep such a club within the ranks. The whole situation is a farce. There is now a window of opportunity for the SFL to partially redeem itself, but I’m not holding my breath. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stadio Delle Almondvale Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 its not you or indeed (to a lesser extent anyway) your club that will rile the majority of other fans-bigger clubs with far more history and past successes have gone down the same road that Livvi has taken- the difference is that you have appeared, on the surface anyway, to have been let off extremely lightly, its the gutless SFL which has angered so many on this thread and it is that so-called "authorititive body" that is most deserving of receiving abuse In that case then can I suggest a league wide boycott for the SFL Christmas Dinner/Dance as opposed to a boycott of Almondvale (hopefull emoticon)? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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