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Livingston - all the threads merged


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Nah, i would very much doubt he would do anything of the sort, as it is pretty much impossible. Stands would need to be moved/knocked down, and there is no extra room (plus pitting area, noise etc) at the staduim between pitch, and sand.

Over at Cowdenbeath, there are new European laws, that the pitch has to be minimum length and width, which was expanded, so they have to make the pitch bigger, and last i heard, have to knock down a couple of walls at either end, and there's the 'Lochgelly Motorsport Complex' that is getting built, not that far away either.

No chance of Stock Cars coming to West Lothian.

Awww! I miss the Max Max: Beyond Thunderdome experience that you get at Central Park. Gordon is missing a trick. He could call it 'extreme stock cars', and still have the cars travelling round the pitch side, possibly into the stands, although then you're getting into a Death race 2000 types situation.

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So what youre now saying is most livi fans are thick and extremely gullible and using that as a line of excuse. There is no excuse for anyone, especially as you all revelled in times of success bought for by youre creditors.

Bankruptcy by the way is there to stop insolvent companies carrying on trading.

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Thanks for your support :rolleyes:

No-one is suggesting what has been done in terms of debts outstanding is right, but just because 1 man decides to run up 7 figures of debt does not mean the SFL need to kill another football club.

I am pretty certain Livi FC will live within its means & that might see us dropping down the leagues in the coming years, but I'd rather have that than not having a club to support.

I'd expect us to be at the bottom end of the 1st Division this year and might even end up in the second division next year, but I'd be delighted at that because yesterday I didn't think there was going to be a Livi FC.

Thanks to all the 'real' football supporters' out there that offered Livi fans support and messages of good luck - you are a credit to Scottish Fitba :D

Haven't Livi lost money every year since they were born? Massone's failing was not having pockets as deep as Flynn or the ability to con someone ala Keane?

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I think if you investigate further you will find that they have a lease on the ground but can build what they want on it.

No red herring, FACT!!

your wrong. There is a thread on Livilions that goes into a lot of detail (title of thread Any Comments?) something missing from the majority of the emotive vitriol on here.

Edited by larry the lion
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What about handing out night vision goggles to all the fans and players?

Good shout. Even better that you leave out the ref and linesmen. ;)

Apologies for going OT.

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What a total farce.

Hopefully most of the clubs will see sense and vote for the huge points deduction.Why should well run clubs like Alloa,Brechin etc all suffer because they don't go millions of pounds into debt?

As Red V said further back Airdrie and Clyde could really now make the same case about their budgets and not being able to afford relegation.By rights they should be shown the same leniency.

Giving Livi a 3rd chance is like trying to get a junkie off of drugs by handing him a new needle.

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I think it's wrong to pre-judge what they want to do and what they'll change it to.

It's fairly clear what they want to do is find a way to get Massone out without him having to actually agree to it. The SFL cannot over-ride corporate law and, if the man simply won't sell his shares in the company, and the SFL rule says the company can't transfer its registration then fundamentally everyone is between a rock and a hard place.

If they simply want to remove this rule then it will open up the opportunity for clubs to sell their "franchise" (league place) to someone else, be it a Livingston 2009 or indeed a Clydebank, Cove Rangers, etc. There's no way the SFL will want that so I can't imagine it's what they are trying to do.

I suspect the proposal will be to replace the existing rule with one allowing the administrator to transfer the league place ALONG WITH all debts and other assets to a new company so that in effect it's the same company entirely just without the same obstructive majority shareholder. If such a rule can actually be drafted correctly then I wouldn't have a problem with that.

Surely you can't just unilaterally transfer debts from one company to another? How would that work?

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So what youre now saying is most livi fans are thick and extremely gullible and using that as a line of excuse. There is no excuse for anyone, especially as you all revelled in times of success bought for by youre creditors.

Bankruptcy by the way is there to stop insolvent companies carrying on trading.

How many bankrupt companies immediately resume trading under a different name. I don't agree with it, but everyone is acting all indignant when it's going on ALL the time in the business world (we're not even proposing this?). Anyway, LFC are commited to trying to pay these creditors something, we will take it on the chin if we end up with points deducted or relegation. We will even face the complete obliteration of LFC if it comes to it with some dignity hopefully. We no longer wish to be led to the slaughter house by irresponsible owners and will find our way through this. Believe it or not, we just love our club. The club is still young, this disaster is an eye opener for many, the state of scottish football is only becoming clear to me through my investigations and learing curve from my own clubs problems. I wonder how many of you realsie how close your going to come to this in the near future? Livi just had a head start on the road to disaster.

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your wrong. There is a thread on Livilions that goes into a lot of detail (title of thread Any Comments?) something missing from the majority of the emotive vitriol on here.

Go back and ask your council if a stand can be knocked down. Ask them if the right deal came along if they would insist that the club stay at Almondvale?

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Go back and ask your council if a stand can be knocked down. Ask them if the right deal came along if they would insist that the club stay at Almondvale?

Read the thread. it's very complicated and there is lots of maybe's and what if's. Of course there is a possibility that teh club will move to another location, but this isn't about property as far as WLC are concerned. It might well be in the best interest of LFC to move, if so, none of us would oppose that. There is nothing black and white about Livi's situation right now. The SFL are not looking at only polling their membership on this matter of Massone owning shares, but there is a lot more re-vamping needing done.

Edited by larry the lion
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Sorry but your wrong. The Rovers were on this path 3 years ago 24 hours and we would have been down the swannie and without a boat let alone paddles. But fans and the trust (Whom i do not support) came together and the save the rovers was formed. They saved our club and all creditors are getting paid. Have you or your trust dont that

Clyde have seen there problems and acted accordingly.

Stirling Albion have too and in fact raised £300000 to buy there club

Stranraer acted and with help they are saved, but all creditors are getting paid.

Dundee went into admin, but all there creditors were paid.

In each and every case all the above are honouring their debts to creditors.

Now tell us all why you should be any different. Pay up or shut up shop and start again in a different league to begin with.

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We want to cut our cloth accordingly, we want to live within our means. We believe this is entirely possible. No one is asking for sympathy because we had some radge owners. You all keep harping on about what is best for scottish football. Seem to me as long as your club isn't in trouble it's dog-eat-dog and your long term proposal is that every club that has a problem should just GTF, leave more room for us. Deduct points, relegate us, whatever, your right, livi's natural level must be found through fiscal policy and reasonable spending. I don't however agree that obliteration of clubs in scotland is prudent planning for it's future.

The bits in bold are something that Livingston have no grasp of. You have never lived within your means since you came into this league. It honestly wouldn't surprise me if we are in the same scenario next summer because if lessons weren't learnt the first time round I fail to see why anything will be different now even with another brush with admistration / liquidation.

I am utterly stunned by the decision made yesterday. I was by no means hoping you would go out of business but I fully expected it to happen given your dire prediciment. Somehow you have managed to weasel out of it again and that sticks in the throats of fans of clubs who cut their cloth accordingly every year to survive. They are the good of Scottish football. Teams like Livi racking up millions of pounds of debt through over spending are not good for Scottish football. You are kidding yourself if you think that is the case.

As someone else said earlier, you should have been put down yesterday and you know it.

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Sorry but your wrong. The Rovers were on this path 3 years ago 24 hours and we would have been down the swannie and without a boat let alone paddles. But fans and the trust (Whom i do not support) came together and the save the rovers was formed. They saved our club and all creditors are getting paid. Have you or your trust dont that

Clyde have seen there problems and acted accordingly.

Stirling Albion have too and in fact raised £300000 to buy there club

Stranraer acted and with help they are saved, but all creditors are getting paid.

Dundee went into admin, but all there creditors were paid.

In each and every case all the above are honouring their debts to creditors.

Now tell us all why you should be any different. Pay up or shut up shop and start again in a different league to begin with.

We will do whatever we have to to redeem ourselves and clear our conscience.

It's lunch time, time to eat more shit...

p.s. yes the Trust (thank god we have one) has raised quite a lot of dosh in a short time 10k + I believe, fund raiser this weekend etc...bear in mind, we did not have a trust the last time we were in this much difficulty, the vehicle for community involvement was not there.

Edited by larry the lion
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Read the thread. it's very complicated and there is lots of maybe's and what if's. Of course there is a possibility that teh club will move to another location, but this isn't about property as far as WLC are concerned. It might well be in the best interest of LFC to more, none of us would oppose that. There is nothing black and white about Livi's situation right now. The SFL are not looking at only polling their membership on this matter of Massone owning shares, there is a lot more re-vamping needing done.

Your right,

Two guys who have no affinity with Livi and as yet don't own the club as they can't buy, in the words of the interim manager, "the worthless shares" for £25,000 this while the club was facing closure.

Today those shares are worth quite a bit more!

In the words of Rankine the invesment they are pouring in is significant, infact I'm sure I read the words "unheard of" quoted, estimations were of £500,000 perhaps £750,000. Now given that you propose to be paying off creditors for 3 years that means they won't see a penny of their investment for 4 years, maybe quite a bit longer and even then how long to recoup it.

Aye right, they are there because they like football and are nice people. :rolleyes:

The sugar drip has gone to your brain already.

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Your right,

Two guys who have no affinity with Livi and as yet don't own the club as they can't buy, in the words of the interim manager, "the worthless shares" for £25,000 this while the club was facing closure.

Today those shares are worth quite a bit more!

In the words of Rankine the invesment they are pouring in is significant, infact I'm sure I read the words "unheard of" quoted, estimations were of £500,000 perhaps £750,000. Now given that you propose to be paying off creditors for 3 years that means they won't see a penny of their investment for 4 years, maybe quite a bit longer and even then how long to recoup it.

Aye right, they are there because they like football and are nice people. :rolleyes:

The sugar drip has gone to your brain already.

wrong again. We are ready to start all over from the beginning if Massone does not take the money and run. We would be devastated for the creditors, mainly those creditors that are local bussinesses and individuals who are owed money if they got nothing as everyone at Livi wants to be as constructive as possible. Outside of HMRC all dept is owed to the community of Livi, if they want to help with a CVA, then it's because they want to encourage the team in the community. if selling the stadium at some point becomes and option (how the fcuk could it, we don't own it, sigh...) then we'll do whatever it takes. ? .

One more personal comment and its open season.

Edited by larry the lion
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I fully expect us to be playing football somewhere other than Almondvale within a few years.

Unfortunately for you so does Neil Rankine.

I see Flynn saying he would put money in too, always could smell a property deal that ****

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